Do you think the 90D is superior to the 7DII?

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
7,901
1,034
119
I’m reminded of watches I have had that were good down to 10 meters, but you shouldn’t wear them scuba diving. I wondered what you’d be doing 10 meters under water otherwise.
Snorkeling, it's only 33 ft!
 
Sep 18, 2019
2
5
I've been hoping for a 7D Mk III for the past year. Based on what I've read, the 90D is not a bad camera, by any stretch, but neither is it a real replacement for the 7D2. It's not as rugged, has 20 fewer AF points, lacks the dual card slots and 200k shutter life of even the 5-year-old 7D2. it just doesn't make business sense for Canon to kill off what was one of their best selling cameras and try to pawn off an updated 80D as a replacement for a pro-grade camera like the 7D2. I continue to hold out hope that Canon will release a true 7D Mk III next year; there is surely enough demand for it. I'd like to think they're just taking their time to make sure it ticks all the boxes for action/sports/wildlife shooters: improved resolution, perhaps the 32Mp sensor just released in the 90D; the AF system from the 1DxII (or 1DxIII) for faster focus, better low-light focus accuracy, and improved AI Servo tracking; significantly improved low-light/high ISO performance; 10-12 fps... dual Digic 8s would allow fast throughput even at 28-32Mp; dual card slots for backup recording; and proper weather sealing which the 90D seems to lack. Yeah, I know, that's quite a wish list, but those are features I'd love to see in a replacement for the 7D2.

All that said, if worst comes to worst, and Canon DOES abandon millions of 7D2 shooters who are eagerly awaiting a viable upgrade, I suppose the 90D could be pressed into service as a second-rate substitute, since it'd be cheaper than selling off my Canon gear and converting to Nikon... though the latter might be tempting. The 90D seems like it would address a FEW of the things I'd like to see in my next crop body, even though it'd be a significant step backward in terms of AF options and overall durability. But I'm gonna hold out a while longer and see if Canon is really foolish - or arrogant - enough to give the finger to millions of enthusiast and pro shooters and bail out of the high-end crop-sensor DSLR market, or if they're perhaps just taking their time, since the 7D2 was so successful, they want to make sure they get the Mk III right...
 

dslrdummy

EOS RP
Aug 28, 2012
347
105
I've been hoping for a 7D Mk III for the past year. Based on what I've read, the 90D is not a bad camera, by any stretch, but neither is it a real replacement for the 7D2. It's not as rugged, has 20 fewer AF points, lacks the dual card slots and 200k shutter life of even the 5-year-old 7D2. it just doesn't make business sense for Canon to kill off what was one of their best selling cameras and try to pawn off an updated 80D as a replacement for a pro-grade camera like the 7D2. I continue to hold out hope that Canon will release a true 7D Mk III next year; there is surely enough demand for it. I'd like to think they're just taking their time to make sure it ticks all the boxes for action/sports/wildlife shooters: improved resolution, perhaps the 32Mp sensor just released in the 90D; the AF system from the 1DxII (or 1DxIII) for faster focus, better low-light focus accuracy, and improved AI Servo tracking; significantly improved low-light/high ISO performance; 10-12 fps... dual Digic 8s would allow fast throughput even at 28-32Mp; dual card slots for backup recording; and proper weather sealing which the 90D seems to lack. Yeah, I know, that's quite a wish list, but those are features I'd love to see in a replacement for the 7D2.

All that said, if worst comes to worst, and Canon DOES abandon millions of 7D2 shooters who are eagerly awaiting a viable upgrade, I suppose the 90D could be pressed into service as a second-rate substitute, since it'd be cheaper than selling off my Canon gear and converting to Nikon... though the latter might be tempting. The 90D seems like it would address a FEW of the things I'd like to see in my next crop body, even though it'd be a significant step backward in terms of AF options and overall durability. But I'm gonna hold out a while longer and see if Canon is really foolish - or arrogant - enough to give the finger to millions of enthusiast and pro shooters and bail out of the high-end crop-sensor DSLR market, or if they're perhaps just taking their time, since the 7D2 was so successful, they want to make sure they get the Mk III right...
I would have liked something closer to a 7D2 upgrade too, but I doubt we'll be getting one in DSLR form. I will go for a 90D because I need a new body for a trip next May and I won't be in the market for a 1DXiii or a mirrorless.
Millions of 7D2 shooters? How many copies do you reckon they've sold?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ah-Keong
Sep 18, 2019
2
5
I would have liked something closer to a 7D2 upgrade too, but I doubt we'll be getting one in DSLR form. I will go for a 90D because I need a new body for a trip next May and I won't be in the market for a 1DXiii or a mirrorless.
Millions of 7D2 shooters? How many copies do you reckon they've sold?
I don't have actual figures, so "millions" may be a bit of an exaggeration, but remember, the Mk II has been on the market for almost 5 years now, and it's one of Canon's most successful APS-c cameras. I wouldn't be at all surprised if global sales numbers have been well into 7 figures. And while mirrorless cameras are getting all the hype these days, they're really nothing more than the old digicams with newer guts and removable lenses. I personally detest EVFs, and I know I'm far from alone in the preference for a DSLR, particularly for fast-moving subjects with long lenses.
 

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,745
3,075
I don't have actual figures, so "millions" may be a bit of an exaggeration, but remember, the Mk II has been on the market for almost 5 years now, and it's one of Canon's most successful APS-c cameras. I wouldn't be at all surprised if global sales numbers have been well into 7 figures. And while mirrorless cameras are getting all the hype these days, they're really nothing more than the old digicams with newer guts and removable lenses. I personally detest EVFs, and I know I'm far from alone in the preference for a DSLR, particularly for fast-moving subjects with long lenses.
Yep, I am a fast-moving subject with a long lens.
 

Aussie shooter

@brett.guy.photography
Dec 6, 2016
459
459
I’m reminded of watches I have had that were good down to 10 meters, but you shouldn’t wear them scuba diving. I wondered what you’d be doing 10 meters under water otherwise.
Free diving to 10 meters is fairly standard. Tbh 12-15 m is more the depth that most experienced free divers will get down to on a regular basis. The trick is making sure you have enough air to get back up ;)
 
  • Like
Reactions: stevelee

scyrene

EOS 5D MK IV
Dec 4, 2013
2,505
392
UK
www.flickr.com
it just doesn't make business sense for Canon to kill off what was one of their best selling cameras and try to pawn off an updated 80D as a replacement for a pro-grade camera like the 7D2.
Do we have sales figures to back that up?

I continue to hold out hope that Canon will release a true 7D Mk III next year; there is surely enough demand for it.
At the risk of sounding flippant, if they announce a replacement, there is enough demand. If they don't, there probably isn't (by whatever standards Canon sets for these things).
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sharlin

Sharlin

EOS 6D MK II
Dec 26, 2015
1,057
556
Turku, Finland
it just doesn't make business sense for Canon to kill off what was one of their best selling cameras and try to pawn off an updated 80D as a replacement for a pro-grade camera like the 7D2.
Luckily Canon is not trying to do so. Nobody at Canon has so much as hinted that they consider the 90D as a 7D2 replacement. On the contrary. But that does not imply that a 7D3 is coming. In a shrinking market sometimes you just have to drop products.

The 7D2 is Canon's best-selling camera… right after every other contemporaneous Canon body except probably the 5D3, 5D4, 1DX, and 1DX2. A helpful rule of thumb: if you call a camera "pro-grade" then it definitely is not best-selling. (Do note that Canon doesn't classify the 7D2 as a professional body, a category that includes exactly the 5D and 1D series. My point stands, regardless.)
 
  • Like
Reactions: Ah-Keong

stevelee

FT-QL
Jul 6, 2017
1,250
281
Davidson, NC
I don't have actual figures, so "millions" may be a bit of an exaggeration, but remember, the Mk II has been on the market for almost 5 years now, and it's one of Canon's most successful APS-c cameras. I wouldn't be at all surprised if global sales numbers have been well into 7 figures. And while mirrorless cameras are getting all the hype these days, they're really nothing more than the old digicams with newer guts and removable lenses. I personally detest EVFs, and I know I'm far from alone in the preference for a DSLR, particularly for fast-moving subjects with long lenses.
I went to a Kelby seminar in Charlotte back before the 7D2 came out. During the first break I found that I was sitting among folks who had sons who were playing high school football. They all either had a 7D or were aspiring to own one soon. I was shooting a T3i at the time and hadn't paid any attention to the differences between higher models up until then. If you think of the number of high school football players in the US, you could easily conclude that it wouldn't take a huge subset of their parents to make that model popular.
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
7,901
1,034
119
I've not seen a snorkel that long, but they must exist, or you wouldn't have mentioned it. Still I don't see why the watch would care how you are breathing when you are that deep. But at least if you are drowning, you can keep track of the time.
No you couldn't breath through a snorkel if you were at 33ft and the snorkel was on the surface, the pressure differential would mean your lungs wouldn't have the sucking power. But when most people snorkel they duck down under the water and 33ft is a reasonable snorkel/reef depth that a large percentage of snorkelers would enjoy.

I thought of mentioning free diving but 33 ft is too shallow for the vast majority of even casual free divers, I'm regularly with free divers who explore wrecks at 60-80ft.
 

Adelino

EOS RP
Jan 21, 2015
316
167
While the sensor may be better, it has fewer AF points and does not have a body that is robust enough to use as a hammer. My 7D2 has survived a lot of salt spray, -30C temperatures, and rain. That’s what the camera is for!

You can’t compare a 5 year old camera designed for one purpose to a new camera designed for another.
I am very surprised they went with the lower number of AF points. Does the 45 from the 80D work better than the 65 from the 7Dii? Or is the 45 on the 90D all new?
 

Sharlin

EOS 6D MK II
Dec 26, 2015
1,057
556
Turku, Finland
I am very surprised they went with the lower number of AF points. Does the 45 from the 80D work better than the 65 from the 7Dii? Or is the 45 on the 90D all new?
The 45-pt sensor is fine as it is (though note that like the 6D2, the 90D has gained a Spot AF mode). The AF performance of the 80D is bounded by available processing power and possibly algorithmic sophistication. The 90D has plenty of processing power and, based on all accounts, clearly improved AI Servo subject acquisition and tracking. The main advantage of the 7D2’s 65-pt sensor is greater AF point coverage.
 
  • Like
Reactions: AlanF

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,745
3,075
I have been testing the AI Servo with various small planes and pigeons in flight. Centre point is very fast acquisition. But, using all 45 points is good, picking up at the edges of the focussing frame accurately. Although 45 is less than 65, they are well spaced and cover a wide area. All in all, I am very happy with speed and accuracy of the 90D’s AF. I was never over the moon with the AF of my 7DII.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Sharlin

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
990
484
I am very surprised they went with the lower number of AF points. Does the 45 from the 80D work better than the 65 from the 7Dii? Or is the 45 on the 90D all new?
Question #1: No (based on personal experience).

Question #2: No (based on Canon's description of the 90D AF system).
 

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,745
3,075
Question #1: No (based on personal experience).

Question #2: No (based on Canon's description of the 90D AF system).
As Sharlin points out above, you have to consider that the actual AF depends on not just the number of points but also the data processing behind it in the camera. The 90D can do face detection and also has a new 220,000px RGB sensor that is used to enhance AF, with a faster processor (as well as having spot focus)
The AF in the 90D has been significantly improved over that in the 80D and my experience with the 90D is that it has more consistent AF than my old 7DII.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
990
484
As Sharlin points out above, you have to consider that the actual AF depends on not just the number of points but also the data processing behind it in the camera. The 90D can do face detection and also has a new 220,000px RGB sensor that is used to enhance AF, with a faster processor (as well as having spot focus)
The AF in the 90D has been significantly improved over that in the 80D and my experience with the 90D is that it has more consistent AF than my old 7DII.
My answers said nothing about performance or processing in the 90D. The second question was about whether the 45 points in the 90D were the same or different than the 80D, not about whether the processing or overall performance was improved. They appear to use the same PDAF array. In time we'll be able to see if both use the same part number for the PDAF array.
 

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,745
3,075
My answers said nothing about performance or processing in the 90D. The second question was about whether the 45 points in the 90D were the same or different than the 80D, not about whether the processing or overall performance was improved. They appear to use the same PDAF array. In time we'll be able to see if both use the same part number for the PDAF array.
My comments were not intended to contradict yours but were providing additional information, which might be of use to readers who were wondering whether the 90D has the same AF as the 80D.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Joules