does CFast have a future path?

RGF

How you relate to the issue, is the issue.
Jul 13, 2012
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With the announcements of CFexpress upgrades to XQD format, what is the future of Cfast? Both cards are sized reasonably - unlike the SD cards which I find too small. The XQD/CFexpress size is slightly smaller which is better for camera designers (cards are smaller, can make the camera smaller or have remove for more other stuff inside the camera).

In the end do you think Canon will just on the CFexpress train (I know, traitor)
 

LDS

EOS 6D MK II
Sep 14, 2012
1,490
106
Canon will have to move to CFexpress - the question is when. IMHO, soon enough.
 

Mt Spokane Photography

I post too Much on Here!!
Mar 25, 2011
15,235
527
Canon tends to wait until controllers are stable and readily available from multiple suppliers. With the trend to tiny mirrorless cameras, I expect them to stay to the small SD format or maybe even micro sd if USB C connectors prove to be reliable, more will use that to transfer images. I don't think faster Wi-Fi is a option as cameras and batteries shrink.

1 series and high MP bodies may be the exception.
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
7,379
376
119
CFast is popular in the video camera arena so I don't see it going anywhere very soon, it certainly has a much bigger footprint than XQD and CFexpress. I'd expect the 1DX MkIII to have dual CFast slots.
 

bhf3737

---
Sep 9, 2015
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Calgary, Canada
www.flickr.com
Perhaps SD Express card is another (better?) option. It allows up to 128TB (where current largest consumer SSDs are 4TB) and 985MB/s theoretical transfer rate which is plenty (ten times more than current V90 cards). SD Express has SD card form factor and is supposed to be backward compatible with current SD slot devices.
 
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Reactions: Antono Refa

RGF

How you relate to the issue, is the issue.
Jul 13, 2012
2,816
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Personally, I'd like to see ssd's put into cameras together with usb-c connectors.
How large an SSD? 256GB - you can buy that in a card. It would be nice to have the SSD upgrade by a service center. I assume that an SSD will be faster than the new round of CFexpress cards
 

Antono Refa

EOS 7D MK II
Mar 26, 2014
765
80
How large an SSD? 256GB - you can buy that in a card. It would be nice to have the SSD upgrade by a service center. I assume that an SSD will be faster than the new round of CFexpress cards
With CFExpress, you can have the same interface and same memory type in both SSDs and memory cards, so I wouldn't expect any speed advantage.

If the can't be replaced by the user, replacing a full memory card with an empty would be much faster than downloading the content of the SSD to, say, a laptop, and the empty memory card would require less space & weight in the bag. It would get worse if the SSD broke down - the camera would be out of commission until taken to a service center, fixed, and returned.
 
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padam

EOS 7D MK II
Aug 26, 2015
530
186
They could be moving straight to CFExpress 2.0
 

LDS

EOS 6D MK II
Sep 14, 2012
1,490
106
With CFExpress, you can have the same interface and same memory type in both SSDs and memory cards, so I wouldn't expect any speed advantage.
The speed will mostly depend on how many PCI Express 'lanes' the card uses, and of course the speed of each lane (which depends on the PCIe version). The CFe standard is designed to allow for different types using less or more lanes, although the form factor will be different to allow for different connectors.

Anyway using PCIe and NVMe there's very little difference with SSDs, but the connector that has to be designed to sustain insert/removal cycles and power consumption/thermal considerations as they are usually more compact.
 
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Antono Refa

EOS 7D MK II
Mar 26, 2014
765
80
The speed will mostly depend on how many PCI Express 'lanes' the card uses, and of course the speed of each lane (which depends on the PCIe version). The CFe standard is designed to allow for different types using less or more lanes
Granted.

although the form factor will be different to allow for different connectors.
Yes, I assume some cameras would have more & faster lanes than others, e.g. pro video cameras need more bandwidth than DSLRs.

Anyway using PCIe and NVMe there's very little difference with SSDs, but the connector that has to be designed to sustain insert/removal cycles and power consumption/thermal considerations as they are usually more compact.
A known problem from many other cards, I guess the designers of CFExpress have a solution, which I'd take over having to carry a 2nd device to download photos to, or having to take the camera to a service center if the SSD fails.
 
Reactions: LDS

LDS

EOS 6D MK II
Sep 14, 2012
1,490
106
Canon tends to wait until controllers are stable and readily available from multiple suppliers.
Right now looks more a problem of cards availability than controllers - which are already common in a lot of hardware - but I do not know exactly which kind of controller goes into a Canon, and what means integrating it with the existing electronics and firmware.

SD cards have presented their PCIe/NVMe architecture as well, although initially I think it will be mostly used by high-end devices needing such speeds. If the speeds are quite close, it will be interesting to see which format will win, of it both will be used for different market segments.

I'd take over having to carry a 2nd device to download photos to, or having to take the camera to a service center if the SSD fails.
Evidently - swapping a card will be always faster than downloading from internal storage, no matter how fast the connection, and internal storage can always fail - and a camera will have more write cycles for more megabytes (which do wear cells) than a phone.

What could be interesting, instead, is if the camera could be connected direclty to external storage and drive it to make a backup of cards. without the need of another device.
 

RGF

How you relate to the issue, is the issue.
Jul 13, 2012
2,816
35
Right now looks more a problem of cards availability than controllers - which are already common in a lot of hardware - but I do not know exactly which kind of controller goes into a Canon, and what means integrating it with the existing electronics and firmware.

SD cards have presented their PCIe/NVMe architecture as well, although initially I think it will be mostly used by high-end devices needing such speeds. If the speeds are quite close, it will be interesting to see which format will win, of it both will be used for different market segments.



Evidently - swapping a card will be always faster than downloading from internal storage, no matter how fast the connection, and internal storage can always fail - and a camera will have more write cycles for more megabytes (which do wear cells) than a phone.

What could be interesting, instead, is if the camera could be connected direclty to external storage and drive it to make a backup of cards. without the need of another device.
Wifi cameras. We have them. I personally favor v fast removable cards (dual cards if possible). Probably will continue to be card costs. Cost seem to have stalled in the last few years and only gradually come down (during sale periods). 1TB SSD are now $100-200 while a 1TB CFast (if they made them) would top $2000 or so.
 

LDS

EOS 6D MK II
Sep 14, 2012
1,490
106
SSDs are cheap, fast and small. Certainly cheaper than XQD etc.
Why couldn't they be removeable like they have on Atomos recorders?
1TB SSD are now $100-200 while a 1TB CFast (if they made them) would top $2000 or so.
Not all SSDs are equal - usually the cheaper ones are SATA 3 slower ones, for less demanding tasks (they are comparable to CFast technology). While I do believe that memory cards have a "premium" price because of their target market, they have also specific needs not found in most low-price consumer SSDs. For example, they are write-intensive - while cheaper SSDs are usually designed for far more read cycles than write ones. Check the prices of SSDs for write-intensive tasks, and they are not cheap. Moreover most SSDs are designed to be installed in systems with active cooling (aka fans), or in systems which allow for enough passive cooling - it's easier in a tablet with a large flat surface, than in a camera. The need of keeping everything "small enough" also makes heat dissipation more difficult. An M.2 connector is rated for 60 insert/removal cycles only - I guess any camera needs far more. Moreover many 1TB M.2 disks come in the 2280 format, which is 80mm long - not easy to fit it into a camera. Nor they are designed to be removed and stored easily outside a device - while an SD card survive one year in the arctic waters: https://www.canon.me/pro/stories/audun-rikardsen-polar-selfie/