does CFast have a future path?

[RGF]

With the announcements of CFexpress upgrades to XQD format, what is the future of Cfast? Both cards are sized reasonably - unlike the SD cards which I find too small. The XQD/CFexpress size is slightly smaller which is better for camera designers (cards are smaller, can make the camera smaller or have remove for more other stuff inside the camera).

In the end do you think Canon will just on the CFexpress train (I know, traitor)

 

[LDS]

Canon will have to move to CFexpress - the question is when. IMHO, soon enough.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Canon tends to wait until controllers are stable and readily available from multiple suppliers. With the trend to tiny mirrorless cameras, I expect them to stay to the small SD format or maybe even micro sd if USB C connectors prove to be reliable, more will use that to transfer images. I don't think faster Wi-Fi is a option as cameras and batteries shrink.

1 series and high MP bodies may be the exception.

 

[Bennymiata]

Personally, I'd like to see ssd's put into cameras together with usb-c connectors.

 

[Ozarker]

Personally, I'd like to see ssd's put into cameras together with usb-c connectors.

Yup!

 

[privatebydesign]

CFast is popular in the video camera arena so I don't see it going anywhere very soon, it certainly has a much bigger footprint than XQD and CFexpress. I'd expect the 1DX MkIII to have dual CFast slots.

 

[bhf3737]

Perhaps SD Express card is another (better?) option. It allows up to 128TB (where current largest consumer SSDs are 4TB) and 985MB/s theoretical transfer rate which is plenty (ten times more than current V90 cards). SD Express has SD card form factor and is supposed to be backward compatible with current SD slot devices.

 

[RGF]

Personally, I'd like to see ssd's put into cameras together with usb-c connectors.

How large an SSD? 256GB - you can buy that in a card. It would be nice to have the SSD upgrade by a service center. I assume that an SSD will be faster than the new round of CFexpress cards

 

[Antono Refa]

Personally, I'd like to see ssd's put into cameras together with usb-c connectors.

To what benefit?

 

[Antono Refa]

How large an SSD? 256GB - you can buy that in a card. It would be nice to have the SSD upgrade by a service center. I assume that an SSD will be faster than the new round of CFexpress cards

With CFExpress, you can have the same interface and same memory type in both SSDs and memory cards, so I wouldn't expect any speed advantage.

If the can't be replaced by the user, replacing a full memory card with an empty would be much faster than downloading the content of the SSD to, say, a laptop, and the empty memory card would require less space & weight in the bag. It would get worse if the SSD broke down - the camera would be out of commission until taken to a service center, fixed, and returned.

 

[padam]

They could be moving straight to CFExpress 2.0

The CompactFlash Association announced CFexpress 2.0 specification with up to 4000MB/s maximum theoretical performance - Nikon Rumors

The CompactFlash Association announced CFexpress 2.0 specification with up to 4000MB/s maximum theoretical performance: The CompactFlash Association Announces CFexpress 2.0 Specification CFexpress 2.0 introduces two next-generation form factors adhering better thermal efficiency, optimized power...

nikonrumors.com

 

[LDS]

With CFExpress, you can have the same interface and same memory type in both SSDs and memory cards, so I wouldn't expect any speed advantage.

The speed will mostly depend on how many PCI Express 'lanes' the card uses, and of course the speed of each lane (which depends on the PCIe version). The CFe standard is designed to allow for different types using less or more lanes, although the form factor will be different to allow for different connectors.

Anyway using PCIe and NVMe there's very little difference with SSDs, but the connector that has to be designed to sustain insert/removal cycles and power consumption/thermal considerations as they are usually more compact.

 

[Antono Refa]

The speed will mostly depend on how many PCI Express 'lanes' the card uses, and of course the speed of each lane (which depends on the PCIe version). The CFe standard is designed to allow for different types using less or more lanes

Granted.

although the form factor will be different to allow for different connectors.

Yes, I assume some cameras would have more & faster lanes than others, e.g. pro video cameras need more bandwidth than DSLRs.

Anyway using PCIe and NVMe there's very little difference with SSDs, but the connector that has to be designed to sustain insert/removal cycles and power consumption/thermal considerations as they are usually more compact.

A known problem from many other cards, I guess the designers of CFExpress have a solution, which I'd take over having to carry a 2nd device to download photos to, or having to take the camera to a service center if the SSD fails.

 

[LDS]

Canon tends to wait until controllers are stable and readily available from multiple suppliers.

Right now looks more a problem of cards availability than controllers - which are already common in a lot of hardware - but I do not know exactly which kind of controller goes into a Canon, and what means integrating it with the existing electronics and firmware.

SD cards have presented their PCIe/NVMe architecture as well, although initially I think it will be mostly used by high-end devices needing such speeds. If the speeds are quite close, it will be interesting to see which format will win, of it both will be used for different market segments.

I'd take over having to carry a 2nd device to download photos to, or having to take the camera to a service center if the SSD fails.

Evidently - swapping a card will be always faster than downloading from internal storage, no matter how fast the connection, and internal storage can always fail - and a camera will have more write cycles for more megabytes (which do wear cells) than a phone.

What could be interesting, instead, is if the camera could be connected direclty to external storage and drive it to make a backup of cards. without the need of another device.

 

[Bennymiata]

SSDs are cheap, fast and small. Certainly cheaper than XQD etc.
Why couldn't they be removeable like they have on Atomos recorders?

 

[RGF]

Right now looks more a problem of cards availability than controllers - which are already common in a lot of hardware - but I do not know exactly which kind of controller goes into a Canon, and what means integrating it with the existing electronics and firmware.

SD cards have presented their PCIe/NVMe architecture as well, although initially I think it will be mostly used by high-end devices needing such speeds. If the speeds are quite close, it will be interesting to see which format will win, of it both will be used for different market segments.



Evidently - swapping a card will be always faster than downloading from internal storage, no matter how fast the connection, and internal storage can always fail - and a camera will have more write cycles for more megabytes (which do wear cells) than a phone.

What could be interesting, instead, is if the camera could be connected direclty to external storage and drive it to make a backup of cards. without the need of another device.

Wifi cameras. We have them. I personally favor v fast removable cards (dual cards if possible). Probably will continue to be card costs. Cost seem to have stalled in the last few years and only gradually come down (during sale periods). 1TB SSD are now $100-200 while a 1TB CFast (if they made them) would top $2000 or so.

 

[LDS]

SSDs are cheap, fast and small. Certainly cheaper than XQD etc.
Why couldn't they be removeable like they have on Atomos recorders?

1TB SSD are now $100-200 while a 1TB CFast (if they made them) would top $2000 or so.

Not all SSDs are equal - usually the cheaper ones are SATA 3 slower ones, for less demanding tasks (they are comparable to CFast technology). While I do believe that memory cards have a "premium" price because of their target market, they have also specific needs not found in most low-price consumer SSDs. For example, they are write-intensive - while cheaper SSDs are usually designed for far more read cycles than write ones. Check the prices of SSDs for write-intensive tasks, and they are not cheap. Moreover most SSDs are designed to be installed in systems with active cooling (aka fans), or in systems which allow for enough passive cooling - it's easier in a tablet with a large flat surface, than in a camera. The need of keeping everything "small enough" also makes heat dissipation more difficult. An M.2 connector is rated for 60 insert/removal cycles only - I guess any camera needs far more. Moreover many 1TB M.2 disks come in the 2280 format, which is 80mm long - not easy to fit it into a camera. Nor they are designed to be removed and stored easily outside a device - while an SD card survive one year in the arctic waters: https://www.canon.me/pro/stories/audun-rikardsen-polar-selfie/