DPReview: Canon EOS R first impressions with Chris and Rishi

traveller

EOS 6D MK II
Jul 22, 2010
895
58
But why? Beside the EVF, the great thing is that mirrorless could be smaller. They even did make a new mount. And then the lenses are so big.... Come on Canon!
View attachment 180189
I don’t think it’s fair to compare an old double-gauss lens design to the modern high performance 50mm designs we see these days. You could make the same comparison between the Sigma 50mm f/1.4 Art and the Canon EF 50mm f/1.4 USM and ask Sigma “what are you doing? Your lens is huge!”. If you took the trouble to shoot them both wide open and look at the results, you wouldn’t even need to zoom in to 100% to see the difference, the 50mm Art is in a different league. The Canon 50mm EF f/1.2L actually resolves pretty similar to the EF 1.4 at equivalent apertures.

A more interesting comparison would be to other mirrorless 50mm designs, but as the major manufacturers have only released 50mm f/1.8 lenses so far, we don’t yet have a fair point of comparison.
 

traveller

EOS 6D MK II
Jul 22, 2010
895
58
Seeing that I have a c100 and a c200 and a 5div and 5dsr and 5diii. I would put out a lot of money for more features , better image quality, and most of all , have them in a nice convenient package if possible. If you work a lot like me you get tired of lugging around a bunch of different cameras because of the extremely inconvenient segmentation Canon has implemented in order to get the best images. This camera is a step forward but I just think it is a too late for such features. Lets worry about ourselves. the consumers. They have billions we don't. Canon reminds me of Nintendo during the n64 era. They just do things their way while Sony (coincidence), went into a more advanced direction. Nintendo fans defended everything Nintendo said and did like keeping cartridges over discs, then when they switched to discs the same fanboys praised them again even though like 6 years ago they hated cd-rom.
I’m sure Canon has another mirrorless full frame camera coming soon that will be targeted at people just like you. Just don’t complain when the want $4000+ for it, like Sony want for their A9.
 

RayValdez360

EOS RP
Jun 6, 2012
331
110
I’m sure Canon has another mirrorless full frame camera coming soon that will be targeted at people just like you. Just don’t complain when the want $4000+ for it, like Sony want for their A9.
i dont complain about money if the more I pay gives me more function and build quality. I would buy a low priced medium format if i thought the features and af were up to current standards of cameras less than half the price. Basically when it comes to technology, I believe more money should equal less compromise.
 
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RayValdez360

EOS RP
Jun 6, 2012
331
110
So its the old argument that 'if people knew what I knew they would see I am right'. The poor deluded people unable to make up their own minds as to what they think is important in a camera.

Question: how do you know you are not one of the 'flawed people who need guidance'? ;)
No it's not that. People just go against their own interests to support things or people they are familiar with. Remember when they put C Log in the 5D IV. Do you not think that was the result of people asking for it or complaining about the lack of it.
 

Sporgon

5% of gear used 95% of the time
So what is the naming convention going forward? I would have preferring this camera being called the R6 or something like that. What would the 5DIV mirrorless counterpart be named?
They did the same thing with the "M".

I guess it tells us that at launch Canon are not yet sure of where this spec of the first "R" is going to sit in the future hierarchy of their FF mirrorless models.
 

Mikehit

EOS 5D MK IV
Jul 28, 2015
3,181
380
No it's not that. People just go against their own interests to support things or people they are familiar with. Remember when they put C Log in the 5D IV. Do you not think that was the result of people asking for it or complaining about the lack of it.
So people bought the 5DIV without C-Log against their best interests? I bought it but without C-Lo even after C-Log was introduced - I don't do video so did I buy it against my own interests?
People buy the Sony even though they have a really poor touch-screen function. Ar they buying against their own interests, or do they just have different priorities?

People know in full what features a camera has and to tell them they are buying the wrong thing is really patronising.
 
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PerKr

EOS T7i
Jul 11, 2018
60
44
Sverige
They did the same thing with the "M".

I guess it tells us that at launch Canon are not yet sure of where this spec of the first "R" is going to sit in the future hierarchy of their FF mirrorless models.
Or they didn't want to tell us.

If considering this a 6D-level body, I'd expect a 5D-level body before April 30th 2019 and a 1D-level body in time for the summer olympics (or possibly, right after, with cameras supplied to chosen photographers during)
 
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criscokkat

EOS RP
Sep 26, 2017
205
182
Madison, WI
Too bad Canon still operates as if it doesnt have competition outside of itself. It's the end of 2018 and we still have cropped 4k, no 4k 60p, and no 1080p 120fps on a 3/4 year old sensor with an AA filter. Do we have to wait until 2022 for something better when by then I am sure technology will be miles ahead from every other brand and even in phones.
My hunch is that a lot of people will be upset when camera #2 is released with the RF mount. It might just be a C series camera. The f2 lens looks perfect for video and they can introduce a non cropped mode for that.
 

onelifesoliveit

I'm New Here
Sep 5, 2018
10
6
And a 28-70 f2!, and a native 50 f1.2. The R is obviously a mid range camera but the system is looking very very interesting. Native adapters with added functionality like filter use, heck it's worth getting one just to use variable ND filters with the 11-24 for video use! Or the new programable function adapter. 10 bit C-Log in a 6D MkII equal camera! A 5D MkIV sensor for over $1,000 less money. Lots to like system wise so far.

For me the Canon FF mirrorless system is offering a decent number of unique features that make it stand out.

Anybody that uses the phone argument when relating to ff sensors clearly doesn't actually shoot 4k video with larger sensors.
28-70 f2 is a lens with no IS and a huge price tag. Period.
50 f1.2 is huge and it is very expensive for a 50mm.
ND filters are meaningless at this point because it is impossible to shoot video with this camera in 4k with 1.67 crop if you don't have a superwide lens.
Yes, you buy a 5DMkIV sensor for over $1.000 less BUT the lens you are talking is 4 years old! I wouldn't pay such a price to old technology.
 

criscokkat

EOS RP
Sep 26, 2017
205
182
Madison, WI
Or they didn't want to tell us.

If considering this a 6D-level body, I'd expect a 5D-level body before April 30th 2019 and a 1D-level body in time for the summer olympics (or possibly, right after, with cameras supplied to chosen photographers during)
They will certainly have a 1D level body in time for the olympics. They will also have at least one pro level C style camera with an RF mount by then. I guarantee that is circled on everyone's timeline at Canon.

Of course, Sony wants to make sure their Pro service is up and running full speed by that time too. It'll be interesting to see what happens with that. Sony does seem to be listening to what pro's want, I suspect their next iteration of cameras will be the start of refining what they already have in place (spending time with ergonomics, etc). So far it's strictly been about features. Unfortunately nothing introduced so far by Canon or Nikon has provided any competition with significantly new features, with the exception of the control ring on the R lenses. This will allow Sony to work on refining things, like out of the camera color and ergonomics. The color is there, if someone takes the time in post. Ergonomics is just refining what they already have for the most part - most of the complaints are how difficult it is to shift modes on their cameras quickly. If they are not spending all of their time shoehorning in new code for new features they will have time to circle back and improve what's already there.

...and everyone is ignoring whatever panasonic/olympus is getting ready to unveil with their open standard lens partnership on a new full frame system. It'll be interesting!
 

KirkD

EOS T7i
Nov 23, 2017
52
14
Canada
kirkdurston.wixsite.com
Complaining about the size of fast lenses is like complaining about the laws of physics that govern space-time, matter, and energy. If one wants a fast lens that does not have any significant vignetting, then physics says you will need a large diameter glass opening to gulp all that light. If you want all the colours to focus at the same point, then physics says you will need to add some lens elements. Bottom Line: you want extremely high optical quality, then physics says you want big lenses. There is no point in whining about big, heavy lenses if you want extreme quality. Looking at the MTF charts for these new lenses, I have to say that I'm impressed. I'm not impressed, however, with no IBIS .... unless the lack of IS on those two top lenses (50-1.2 and the f2 zoom) strongly implies that the "pro" mirrorless version will have IBIS.
 
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criscokkat

EOS RP
Sep 26, 2017
205
182
Madison, WI
They will certainly want to. But if they won't be able to deliver the same AF tracking burst performance in a mirrorless camera, it might still be an SLR.
The oita plant is supposedly updating one of their fabs right now to a much smaller geometry. I'm pretty sure most of the ARM chips in the DIGIC systems are at most 2 core, and are made at something like 40nm process (the latest chips in your phone or PC are made at 7-12nm).

If this is a more modernly sized fab line there (something under 15nm) they could easily solve any heat issues/throughput issues in the ARM chips for data processing. The auto focus tracking/prediction is processed using these chips, and the extra processing that it takes to differentiate an object from the background in dual pixel autofocusing is most likely what is limiting it. The sensor light receptors will continue to be made at the larger sizes because of physics of light. But the rest of the sensor has room for improvement - they have patents on processes that make stacked layers at different sizes. That could also make a huge difference in power consumption (and therefore heat).
 
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privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
7,566
643
119
28-70 f2 is a lens with no IS and a huge price tag. Period.
50 f1.2 is huge and it is very expensive for a 50mm.
ND filters are meaningless at this point because it is impossible to shoot video with this camera in 4k with 1.67 crop if you don't have a superwide lens.
Yes, you buy a 5DMkIV sensor for over $1.000 less BUT the lens you are talking is 4 years old! I wouldn't pay such a price to old technology.
Doesn't sound like you are living your life!

The 28-70 f2 is unique, with or without IS. Unique.

The RF 50 f1.2L price, $2,299, is just over half the price of the Zeiss Otus 55mm f1.4 @ $3,999. If you can't play with the big boys don't cry in public, the price of this kind of gear is high, it has always been high and will always be high.

The 1.67 crop is easy to deal with as anybody who has worked with it on the 1DX MkII, I have the EF 11-24 but the Tamron 15-30 has VC and very well rated and gives a video popular effective 24mm fov for a lot less money. Actually as you can use EF-s lenses the options could well be much broader and cheaper.

I don't understand your last point.
 

jalbfb

EOS 80D
Feb 18, 2011
183
5
For now I'm holding tight onto my 5D4. The EOS R line will be interestng to watch as it develops. For me, I'll wait for Mark II or even Mak III versions. You've got to give Canon credit for some unique and innovative things with its first dip into the mirrorless pool, like the three different attachment rings, R lens 3rd ring, etc.I don't do any vlogging and rarely if ever use video, so I really don't get excited or disappointed with those features. I'd like to see Canon come out with a pro-style stills only mirrorless, but like I have said, I'll wait for later versions to see if that happens. Kudos to Canon for springing this surprise on everyone.
 

cayenne

EOR R
Mar 28, 2012
1,870
89
MAN!! I'm so bumbed about this camera and I'm usually positive when everyone is negative about a camera release. :p
But the only 3 things I want Canon didn't do in this camera and EVERYONE else is.
IBIS - WHY Canon!? Why can't you do it. Even Nikon's lowest body has it!!
1080 @ 120fps - WHY?? :(:(:(
I have been waiting for years for these 2 things. If this camera came out with the same specs as Nikon's Z6 I was going to sell my 5D3 and buy one of these.
Now I don't know what to do. My buddies went Sony a while ago and been bugging me to go Sony because they said Canon won't produce.
Guess they were right. F! :mad:
Please pardon what is likely a stupid questions....

But if you have stabilization in the lenses already, why do you need it in the body?

What does it matter where the stabilization takes place?

Just curious.....

TIA,

cayenne
 

cayenne

EOR R
Mar 28, 2012
1,870
89
For the reason Canon state, the opportunity to make better glass. The R/RF line is about uncompromising glass, not size, the M line is about size. The RF 50 f1.2 is supposed to be markedly better in the IQ department than the EF version.

Personally I'm not interested in either of the above, my interest lies in the 'pro' R model and using the 11-24 on it with the filter adapter for video and the 35 f1.8 for walk around. The R is looking like a vloggers dream, if the 'pro' version has more frame rate options and more MP I'll be getting one.

I've been watching review videos, and a couple of folks have hinted at Canon putting out a higher end "R" model, more like the 5D series.

Have you heard of any time frame for this to be announced? I couple of rumors seemed to be fairly soon, like before or in early 2019?

I'd love to jump to a new version, but I want something more along the 5D level....and I too like dual cards.
 
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privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
7,566
643
119
No nothing that I know of, I'm in no rush and am happy to let the first adopters shake the system down :)
 

cayenne

EOR R
Mar 28, 2012
1,870
89
No nothing that I know of, I'm in no rush and am happy to let the first adopters shake the system down :)

Yeah, in most things, I generally don't get the 1.0 version of things...I let them age a little.

But this is all VERY interesting stuff, I think I like the direction its going and by the time I'm ready to buy, I think a bit higher end version should be available with more features I'm looking for.

C
 

padam

EOS 7D MK II
Aug 26, 2015
545
193
With the EOS M, they just started to add numbers to the later models.
But this can be different with letters added as well, like a model focused on resolution, focused on speed, etc.