DPReview: Canon EOS R first impressions with Chris and Rishi

[privatebydesign]

Unfortunately it's back to the waiting game with Canon. This EOS-R has a huge crop in 4K, sub-par codec, terrible rolling shutter, and no usable slo-mo mode. All of this, and more, is available in the competition.
One wonders if Canon just can't compete in mirrorless video. All the wonderful build quality, ergonomics and great lenses don't make up for the technical inferiority. This article lays it all out... https://www.eoshd.com/2018/09/dishonest-misleading-unnecessary-eos-r-and-cropped-4k/

Except that graphic is not truthful. I'm not interested in whatever 'information' is contained thereafter, anybody that is that dishonest in their opening has an axe to grind.

First image is theirs.
Second image is there crop copied and repositioned.
Third image is an actual 1.7 crop.

 

[privatebydesign]

The more I think about it the more annoying I find that representation.

Under the headline "Dishonest" and "Misleading" they have a dishonest and misleading banner image.

 

[Etienne]

Except that graphic is not truthful. I'm not interested in whatever 'information' is contained thereafter, anybody that is that dishonest in their opening has an axe to grind.

First image is theirs.
Second image is there crop copied and repositioned.
Third image is an actual 1.7 crop.

You might not like their graphic, or their headline, but their criticisms are 100% valid.

 

[AlanF]

Funny, I was doing some video of classic cars and the shiny grills displayed kind of weird, which I assume would be even worse without the filter (I'm new to video). Likewise I've shot Cedar waxwings and strange patterns seem to appear in their feathers, again, I believe this would be worse with no AA filter. So, maybe it's not as one sided as it seems. I don't have any objection to the crop factor on my 1Dx2.

Jack

Moire is worse with low density sensors - the higher the megapixels, the less intrusive the Moire because the Moire is being pushed to higher frequencies. I did a lot of shots of waxwings with both the 5DIV and the 5DSR and had similar Moire on both.

 

[privatebydesign]

You might not like their graphic, or their headline, but their criticisms are 100% valid.

I find video centric sites that constantly criticize stills centric cameras video specs tiring.

I do a little video now, if it takes up more of my workload I'll get gear better aligned with my needs. The new R is the only FF equipped camera that shoots 4k and has a full tilt swivel screen, for a certain video subset that is huge, add in the DPAF and Canon colors and the fact you can shoot EF-s ultra wide lenses with that video crop and it points to a camera with a range of very positive video features. If you dig deeper, find me a camera that uses a bigger sensor area to collect 10 bit 4:2:2 4K in BT.2020 and Log as clean unlimited time HDMI out, then we can compare video specs.

Yes some criticism is valid, a lot isn't and is just click bate.

 

[Etienne]

I find video centric sites that constantly criticize stills centric cameras video specs tiring.

I do a little video now, if it takes up more of my workload I'll get gear better aligned with my needs. The new R is the only FF equipped camera that shoots 4k and has a full tilt swivel screen, for a certain video subset that is huge, add in the DPAF and Canon colors and the fact you can shoot EF-s ultra wide lenses with that video crop and it points to a camera with a range of very positive video features. If you dig deeper, find me a camera that uses a bigger sensor area to collect 10 bit 4:2:2 4K in BT.2020 and Log as clean unlimited time HDMI out, then we can compare video specs.

Yes some criticism is valid, a lot isn't and is just click bate.

The EOS-R has some good features, but Canon claims that it is video-centric. That's a tall claim for a camera with quite a few video shortcomings.
I really like the swivel screen, DPAF, and colors, but super-cropped 4K with unwieldy file sizes? That's a bummer. Bad rolling shutter, and no proper slo-mo going into 2019? Those are pretty big thorns in the side, especially in a Camera billed as videocentric and that may not see a replacement until 2022.
The A7 III looks like tops still, or maybe the A7s III will be announced shortly.
The EOS-R will be great for a committed Canon guy, but it isn't the answer to the A7 III that I'd hoped.

 

[privatebydesign]

So...... "find me a camera that uses a bigger sensor area to collect 10 bit 4:2:2 4K in BT.2020 and Log as clean unlimited time HDMI out, then we can compare video specs."

Or...find me a FF camera that shoots 4K with very good AF in video that has a full tilt swivel screen.

The R stands head and shoulders about all other video cameras for some specific users, trashing it because it doesn't do everything for everyone is ridiculous, even Canon call it a "mid level camera", I'm more inclined to acknowledge the unique positives than get frustrated at the missing features. Show me another video camera that can shoot with a 28-70 f2.

If the specific feature set doesn't suit you fine, the R doesn't suit my uses, but I think it is a great mid level camera and very interesting system.

 

[RayValdez360]

I find video centric sites that constantly criticize stills centric cameras video specs tiring.

I do a little video now, if it takes up more of my workload I'll get gear better aligned with my needs. The new R is the only FF equipped camera that shoots 4k and has a full tilt swivel screen, for a certain video subset that is huge, add in the DPAF and Canon colors and the fact you can shoot EF-s ultra wide lenses with that video crop and it points to a camera with a range of very positive video features. If you dig deeper, find me a camera that uses a bigger sensor area to collect 10 bit 4:2:2 4K in BT.2020 and Log as clean unlimited time HDMI out, then we can compare video specs.

Yes some criticism is valid, a lot isn't and is just click bate.

Anyone that really does video professional isn't liking the crop. It just henders creativity. why are they selling all this expensive glass that is losing most of it's usuabilty when in 4k mode. You make a new mount but have to buy low quality efs lens to get the most out of the video modes. Remember this is 2018 , so this camera is supposed to be used until sometime in the next decade and 4k importance will only increase. If Canon can make a 12/14-24/28mm 2.8 that doesnt weight a ton and not cost an arm and a leg, it would be appreciated. Also I find there is a divide and a certain level of selfishness in forums. I see this as primarily a stills forum where a lot of members dont care much about video or the needs of professional video shooters. On the flip side outside of this forum, there is a TON of Canon hate that is over exaggerated. We just need to admit admit Canon makes compromised but extreme useful and balanced cameras.

 

[privatebydesign]

Anyone that really does video professional isn't liking the crop. It just henders creativity. why are they selling all this expensive glass that is losing most of it's usuabilty when in 4k mode. You make a new mount but have to buy low quality efs lens to get the most out of the video modes. Remember this is 2018 , so this camera is supposed to be used until sometime in the next decade and 4k importance will only increase. If Canon can make a 12/14-24/28mm 2.8 that doesnt weight a ton and not cost an arm and a leg, it would be appreciated. Also I find there is a divide and a certain level of selfishness in forums. I see this as primarily a stills forum where a lot of members dont care much about video or the needs of professional video shooters. On the flip side outside of this forum, there is a TON of Canon hate that is over exaggerated. We just need to admit admit Canon makes compromised but extreme useful and balanced cameras.

Because the R is a mid level stills camera that shoots video, it is not a video camera that shoots stills. Why is that so hard to understand?

Canon make professional video cameras, they also make video centric cameras that also shoot stills, that isn't what this is.

I am and have been a professional stills shooter for years, I now do some video and the 1DX MkII does that well enough, if I need more I won't be looking for a stills orientated camera that has video functionality, EF or RF, I'll be looking at the C line with an EF mount.

 

[BillB]

Anyone that really does video professional isn't liking the crop. It just henders creativity. why are they selling all this expensive glass that is losing most of it's usuabilty when in 4k mode. You make a new mount but have to buy low quality efs lens to get the most out of the video modes. Remember this is 2018 , so this camera is supposed to be used until sometime in the next decade and 4k importance will only increase. If Canon can make a 12/14-24/28mm 2.8 that doesnt weight a ton and not cost an arm and a leg, it would be appreciated. Also I find there is a divide and a certain level of selfishness in forums. I see this as primarily a stills forum where a lot of members dont care much about video or the needs of professional video shooters. On the flip side outside of this forum, there is a TON of Canon hate that is over exaggerated. We just need to admit admit Canon makes compromised but extreme useful and balanced cameras.

Well, there are a couple of pretty good EF 16-35's out there now that can be used with the new R. What is wrong with them?

 

[woodman411]

If your accusations of bias are based on you not even reading our reviews and just believing angry rants you read here, then, that's unfortunate and I'm not sure there's much I can or should do.

As I mentioned, I used to read DPR, and I watched your video in this OP, so my feelings are based on what I see directly, not hearsay.

Bryan and I had a great chat today - wonderful guy, with a similar set of priorities ...

If that was true, DPR and TDP reviews would be similar. They are not. Not even close.

FWIW, I personally enjoyed shooting with the EOS R, and the new optics are phenomenal. These are exciting times for creatives.

I have no doubt you can see positives in various brands. My point is, there is a big difference when one believes a brand is at the top, by your own admission, and that Canon should aspire to Sony. This belief comes out in subtle but substantial ways in DPR. A belief that I don't share, and something I gratefully don't see with Bryan (and Dustin Abbott and others).

 

[RayValdez360]

Well, there are a couple of pretty good EF 16-35's out there now that can be used with the new R. What is wrong with them?

i am saying it is weird not to have RF ultra wide zoom at launch since that is what you will need to comfortably do 4k. A roadmap would be nice to see. i did forget about the EF 16-35 since it overlaps 24/28mm. My bad.

 

[Darecinema]

Anyone that really does video professional isn't liking the crop. It just henders creativity. why are they selling all this expensive glass that is losing most of it's usuabilty when in 4k mode. You make a new mount but have to buy low quality efs lens to get the most out of the video modes. Remember this is 2018 , so this camera is supposed to be used until sometime in the next decade and 4k importance will only increase. If Canon can make a 12/14-24/28mm 2.8 that doesnt weight a ton and not cost an arm and a leg, it would be appreciated. Also I find there is a divide and a certain level of selfishness in forums. I see this as primarily a stills forum where a lot of members dont care much about video or the needs of professional video shooters. On the flip side outside of this forum, there is a TON of Canon hate that is over exaggerated. We just need to admit admit Canon makes compromised but extreme useful and balanced cameras.

Actually I’m a video professional and the 4K crop isn’t a deal breaker mainly because I know that there isn’t a perfect camera out there for everything that I do, so I have different cameras to cover different strengths. I have dozens of clients who insist that I DONT shoot 4K. Odd right? So I use full HD and get gorgeous full frame from the 5D Mark IV, when I’m shooting passion projects where I do want 4K no crop out comes the A7SII. But here ultimately is the reason I won’t switch to Sony at this point: the range of lenses (which they are catching up on) and the almost freaking magical handling of focus in video mode on the Canon DPAF systems. As a working pro, I evaluate each tool strengths and weaknesses. And if I find one that pays for itself for a job, I get it. I know at some point I’ll be picking up an EOS R, not this one, but the pro level one so I can start exploring the EOS R Lens system. In the meantime what I want from Canon is that the large format sensor tech in the C700 makes it way down to the C300 price category. And in a couple years I know it will. In the meantime, I’ll happily use what I have to continue making money and buying new tools that solve specific problems. And buying more lenses because that’s where the real investment is anyways.

 

[rishi_sanyal]

I have no doubt you can see positives in various brands. My point is, there is a big difference when one believes a brand is at the top, by your own admission, and that Canon should aspire to Sony. This belief comes out in subtle but substantial ways in DPR. A belief that I don't share, and something I gratefully don't see with Bryan (and Dustin Abbott and others).

I have never said I believe one brand is at top, nor that Canon should aspire to Sony. And I apologize if anything I've said might be construed as such.

In fact, some of my best work has been shot on Canon. That's partly because I've shot Canon most of my life, but also because something about the image quality of Canon is, well, just inspiring.

There are many things wrong with Sony (or other mirrorless cameras): let's start with invisible AF points, lagginess that costs me shots, etc. But overall they offer a set of features, performance, and even customization and ergonomics (I can't operate the EOS R with even light gloves, for example, and the buttons still have unnecessary restrictions on what can be assigned) that, in a positive sense, push the entire industry forward.

Similarly, the ergonomics and certain AF features and color science (and more) of Canon and Nikon DSLRs have pushed Sony cameras forward.

It's a two way street, and, for the record, I do not think that any one camera or brand is better or best for every photographer. Things are far more nuanced.

 

[woodman411]

I have never said I believe one brand is at top, nor that Canon should aspire to Sony. And I apologize if anything I've said might be construed as such.

May I ask what you meant in the video (@ 8:20): "the bar is set by the best mirrorless right now and some of these cameras fall quite short of this bar in many respects" ?

Did I misunderstand that "these cameras" refer to Nikon and Canon, and "the bar" is Sony?

 

[martti]

I watched Sue Bryce (the Kiwi portrait wizard) do a one-hour workshop on posing (like for portraits) using the 'R' with a 50mm f/1.2 that she had received the day before. She just did it. Once she mentioned that the eye focus simplifies her work, another time it took her two seconds to get the eye focus to trace. That's it. That's how it should be. You do your thing and the equipment should attract as little attention as possible. Unless, of course, your thing is selling equipment.
Looks like Canon has a product that does what Canons do best: Pictures.

 

[AuroraChaserDoug]

I watched Sue Bryce (the Kiwi portrait wizard) do a one-hour workshop on posing (like for portraits) using the 'R' with a 50mm f/1.2 that she had received the day before. She just did it. Once she mentioned that the eye focus simplifies her work, another time it took her two seconds to get the eye focus to trace. That's it. That's how it should be. You do your thing and the equipment should attract as little attention as possible. Unless, of course, your thing is selling equipment.
Looks like Canon has a product that does what Canons do best: Pictures.

So, the EOS R camera body was released as a complement to the perfect lens, the new RF 50mm F/1.2 L.

 

[martti]

So, the EOS R camera body was released as a complement to the perfect lens, the new RF 50mm F/1.2 L.

She never missed a beat. The pictures are fabulous, of course. She is back to her 5D4 now. Probably it was just a publicity stunt.
Whatever, the camera/lens combination plugged in her studio lights and her normal workflow as if it had always been there.
If it is good enough for her, it must be pretty good.

 

[Jack Douglas]

May I ask what you meant in the video (@ 8:20): "the bar is set by the best mirrorless right now and some of these cameras fall quite short of this bar in many respects" ?

Did I misunderstand that "these cameras" refer to Nikon and Canon, and "the bar" is Sony?

Oh, oh, here we go .... I love CR for the humour.

Give Rishi a break. He tries hard to be more or less neutral and if he isn't 100% it's because he doesn't sense the nuances occasionally. I was almost in tears reading all the bashing he got after the early R comments. However, from the other point of view maybe DPR has nurtured Sony fangirls/boys and the comments reflect their anger for being let down.

Jack

 

[Mac Duderson]

Please pardon what is likely a stupid questions....

But if you have stabilization in the lenses already, why do you need it in the body?

What does it matter where the stabilization takes place?

Just curious.....

TIA,

cayenne

I'm not really sure what would happen if you have IS in both the body and lens at the same time but I would really like it in body because I only shoot primes and none of them has IS. I would love it if the lenses has IS but i don't think Canon will do that any time soon.
So IBIS is my best hope.