DXOMark review: D850 gets a *100* sensor score

[Jopa]

Other than the 1DX in recent years you don't feel they are making the best camera they could.

Why? The 5DsR was a better camera than the D810 (unless DR is the ultimate important thing in a camera). Canon will respond with the 5DsR II next year. 5Dm4 is a great walkarounder, but I guess Canon simply underestimated the competition this year, otherwise we would probably see a beefier camera. It's always a catch up game.

 

[ahsanford]

Why? The 5DsR was a better camera than the D810 (unless DR is the ultimate important thing in a camera). Canon will respond with the 5DsR II next year. 5Dm4 is a great walkarounder, but I guess Canon simply underestimated the competition this year, otherwise we would probably see a beefier camera. It's always a catch up game.

Sure, but tip your cap when your rivals actually raise the bar, though. The D810 sensor was arguably the best SLR sensor on the planet for a surprisingly long time, and now the D850 plausibly can go after 5DS customers *and* 5D4 customers. When you can push 45 x 9 data, you can honestly play to both fields with one product -- fast enough for the 5D4 crowd and detailed enough for the 5DS crowd.

Sony gets all the credit for these spec sheet phantoms that shouldn't exist, do exist, yet we don't find that dream so compelling once we've tried it.

Nikon, on the other hand -- in light of recent product disappointments (CX, a high end P&S line they killed), poor sales and corporate restructuring -- is thought of this wounded giant on the decline. Yet the D500 and D850 are exactly the sort of spec sheet powerhouses we'd expect from Sony. Short of IBIS and something resembling DPAF, on paper those rigs have everything -- terrific sensors, huge throughput, solid AF, 4K, solid ergonomics and solid lenses. Critically, they get photography in a way I don't think Borg-like Sony does.

So, yeah, the D850 would appear to be the 5D4 many were looking for.

But the chasm in enthusiasm for Nikon products vs. Sony products is telling. Am I to deduce that if everyone thinks Sony is Canon's biggest threat (and not Nikon), that's it's less about specs or sensors and more about FF mirrorless in general?

- A

 

[dak723]

But the chasm in enthusiasm for Nikon products vs. Sony products is telling. Am I to deduce that if everyone thinks Sony is Canon's biggest threat (and not Nikon), that's it's less about specs or sensors and more about FF mirrorless in general?

- A

I think it is more about Sony's reputation for innovation and perceived greater tech. And I don't think it is real photographers that are on the Sony bandwagon, it is those more interested in tech - which seem to make up a large percentage of photo forum dwellers. Having used Olympus and Canon cameras for so long, I would never get a Nikon as it's zoom (and focus) dials go the "wrong" way, but otherwise I would never hesitate to get a Nikon. Sony...not so much. Tried it, didn't like it in any way.

 

[snoke]

First two shipments D850 sold out in USA. Popular camera.

D850 tick many boxes - including price.

If Nikon mirrorless D850 but thin mount, buy with EF adapter. Killer combination.

 

[AlanF]

First two shipments D850 sold out in USA. Popular camera.

D850 tick many boxes - including price.

If Nikon mirrorless D850 but thin mount, buy with EF adapter. Killer combination.

D850 + EF mount = killer combination.

 

[SecureGSM]

D850 + EF mount = 5DsR II

D850 + EF mount = killer combination.

 

[AlanF]

D850 + EF mount = 5DsR II

D850 + EF mount = killer combination.

Here's hoping!

 

[Jopa]

D850 + EF mount = 5DsR II

D850 + EF mount = killer combination.

Yes that was the only (but very significant) downside of the d850 - it doesn't take EF lenses which render it useless. I hope too the 5dsr2 will fix this

 

[Orangutan]

This thread will reach 5..... oh, wait 50 pages. Then Nazis will be mentioned. Praise be to Godwin!

I'm happy for Nikon! Hopefully they kicked the nuts of Canon to improve too!

Actually, the CR forum is about the only place on the internet that *doesn't* confirm Godwin's law.

Not needed. Many Canon-Nazi's do job

;D

Please explain this in detail, I don't understand your joke at all.

Go Wikipedia, search Godwin's law

No, that part I get. The question is why you thought this was funny. Seems rather lame to me.

 

[Orangutan]

D850 + EF mount = 5DsR II

D850 + EF mount = killer combination.

Yes that was the only (but very significant) downside of the d850 - it doesn't take EF lenses which render it useless. I hope too the 5dsr2 will fix this

Not the only downside, price is another one. I'm not saying it's not fairly priced, I'm just saying it's priced out of my budget, as well as not taking EF lenses.

 

[SecureGSM]

there is another one that is not quite easy to fix:

skin tones coming out of Nikon bodies are quite different to Canon colours. Running and gunning with 2 cameras, one Canon and one Nikon side by side makes really uneasy to balance colours out in the end product. put photos in the same album and it feels mismatched... Your 5DsR produced colours are just perfect though.
I am not saying that the difference is so dramatic that everyone sees this, but... It is noticeable to my eye...

Yes that was the only (but very significant) downside of the d850 - it doesn't take EF lenses which render it useless. I hope too the 5dsr2 will fix this

 

[stevelee]

I'm surprised at how often when I open picture from one of my Canons in ACR that the "as shot" color balance looks just about right to me. I will often try the "auto" setting (and less often one of the others as seems appropriate) just to see what adjustments it suggests to me. And then I go back to "as shot" and maybe tweak a bit.

I don't know whether Canon just produces good color, or at least color to suit my tastes, or whether using Canons has trained me to see the world the way their cameras and lenses do.

 

[SecureGSM]

you are correct, Sir!
Canon colour magic is superb. I personally could not care less about Nikon or Sony system no matter how "advanced" their tech is as each time I look at a Canon camera produced image I see exactly why I choose to shoot with Canon: colours.

I'm surprised at how often when I open picture from one of my Canons in ACR that the "as shot" color balance looks just about right to me. I will often try the "auto" setting (and less often one of the others as seems appropriate) just to see what adjustments it suggests to me. And then I go back to "as shot" and maybe tweak a bit.

I don't know whether Canon just produces good color, or at least color to suit my tastes, or whether using Canons have trained me to see the world the way their cameras and lenses do.

 

[Jopa]

there is another one that is not quite easy to fix:

skin tones coming out of Nikon bodies are quite different to Canon colours. Running and gunning with 2 cameras, one Canon and one Nikon side by side makes really uneasy to balance colours out in the end product. put photos in the same album and it feels mismatched... Your 5DsR produced colours are just perfect though.
I am not saying that the difference is so dramatic that everyone sees this, but... It is noticeable to my eye...

Yes that was the only (but very significant) downside of the d850 - it doesn't take EF lenses which render it useless. I hope too the 5dsr2 will fix this

Cannot agree more! I was shooting with Sony (A99/A7r/A7II/A7rII) since 2012 and the colors are really different. With Canon they are pretty much always spot on, except if I shoot in a bunch of grass / green surroundings. Still not as significant color cast compared to Sony, much easier to correct.

 

[RGF]

D850 + EF mount = 5DsR II

D850 + EF mount = killer combination.

Here's hoping!

Probability is less than 0.00000000000001% (might add a few more zeros).

Would be great if Canon could come close to matching the sensor in the D850. Then again, the D850 may be Nikon's last hope to gain market share. Otherwise they company may be going out of business.

 

[AlanF]

D850 + EF mount = 5DsR II

D850 + EF mount = killer combination.

Here's hoping!

Probability is less than 0.00000000000001% (might add a few more zeros).

Would be great if Canon could come close to matching the sensor in the D850. Then again, the D850 may be Nikon's last hope to gain market share. Otherwise they company may be going out of business.

You have misunderstood Securegsm: the 5DsR II may have the killer features of the D850, not that it would have an EF. I'll take you on given the probability of that being 0.00000000000001% - a 1 cent bet would return $100 trillion.

 

[SecureGSM]

RGF,

Please enlighten me, apart from being higher resolution, how the D850 sensor is better than 5D IV sensor?
what criteria to look for?

Would be great if Canon could come close to matching the sensor in the D850.

 

[arthurbikemad]

D850 + EF mount = 5DsR II

D850 + EF mount = killer combination.

Here's hoping!

Probability is less than 0.00000000000001% (might add a few more zeros).

Would be great if Canon could come close to matching the sensor in the D850. Then again, the D850 may be Nikon's last hope to gain market share. Otherwise they company may be going out of business.

It's an odd one, Nikon make the best DSLR in the world (so some may say) but they struggle to survive, perhaps this is why DXO pity them As for 5D4 close to the 850, my 5D4 don't seem half bad and my "low res" 1DX2 seems to kicks its arse at times.

Perhaps the answer is for Canon to buy out Nikon :

 

[Admin US West]

I've removed posts referring to Na**'s, sorry if I missed any.

They are never funny, but since its a rare occurrence, I've issues warnings rather than a ban.

 

[ahsanford]

RGF,

Please enlighten me, apart from being higher resolution, how the D850 sensor is better than 5D IV sensor?
what criteria to look for?

Would be great if Canon could come close to matching the sensor in the D850.

If DXO data is accepted:

• The D850 has more dynamic range (at base ISO) and greater color depth. The differences, in fairness, are not very large. For instance, 1.2 stops of base ISO DR will not let you leave the ND grads at home / abandon the practice of compositing multiple shots for tripod landscape work. Further, the gap between Canon and Nikon has been dramatically reduced here -- the D800/D800E/D810 models were a wowzer-like 2.5-3 stops better than the 5D3 on this front.
  
  
• Though the D850's high ISO score isn't quite up to the 5D4's, it's not far off. I haven't seen a 45 MP file downsampled to the 30 MP of the 5D4 for comparison yet -- it's possible at downsampled D850 file might be cleaner than a 5D4 file.

So it's a little better depending on how you look at it:

Detail: Considerably better
Base ISO DR: Slightly better
General DR away from Base ISO: Similar
High ISO noise: Slightly worse (45 MP) to perhaps equivalent (30 MP downsample)

But there's nothing in the sensor data that I've seen thus far that the D850 will be an overall better camera in real world use. The D850 sensor captures more detail and conditionally outperforms the 5D4 in a few areas, but that drives right past AF, handling, LiveView/video use (where DPAF is a nontrivial consideration), etc.

As I said before, the D850 (like the D500 before it) is a spec sheet juggernaut, but it needs to work well in real use and reviews are needed to get into that. That said, I have much more faith in Nikon than Sony to deliver the potential of that spec sheet.

- A