EDIT. I really like OLY OMD cameras as well as my Canon gear.

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,738
3,035
Too much work for too little effect.

More likely, it's just our fellow forumite that got way too excited with their new toy right after the purchase. Give them time to do some low-light work and to realize that until Adobe comes up with content-aware noise correction, there is no replacement for displacement.
His previous record shows no trace of being a troll and I too think he is simply excited about his new kit. However, Adobe should simply come up with decent noise suppression. I am a DxO devotee as it is far better. As it is not yet compatible with the D90 I have bought a licence for PhotoNinja, which can take an Adobe .dng output and make it much better than Adobe.
 
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Cryhavoc

Eos R, EM1 Mk1, EM1 MkII, EM5 MkII
Jan 17, 2019
54
62
Seattle
Rumblings from a paranoid online shopper always alert for paid influencers.

Plan for influencing.

1) Remember to be patient to establish trust.
2) Open an account on a forum focused on a competitor's products.
3) Claim to be a user/owner of competitor's products.
4) Prove it with a flickr page.
5) After a few months, have an epiphany, a "woke" moment, and discover the truth about your secret sponsor's gear.
6) Post a gushing little advertisement with a click-baity subject line, and suggestions such as "IF you love your big Canon's and Nikon's and large lenses, you might not after giving m4/3rds an honest try out." Be sure to use a little awkward phrasing to sound more authentic!

No offense intended to the original OP, but see what I'm getting at here?

An alternate narrative might be that a photographer was approached by Olympus in the past few months to start promoting their gear in various online forums.

And another narrative? We have a typical, innocent photographer who had a genuine conversion experience and has felt compelled to share with others.

Everywhere we turn, as shoppers, voters, etc., we have to sort out narratives!!!
Another alternative is that I no longer wished to carry a lowepro Tactical 450II on vacation with me loaded with massive lenses, and I found a screaming deal on a used EM1-MK1 at kenmore camera for $369, and also a used Oly 12-40mm pro for $450 and found the combination of features and size for daytime shooting seems to be the right fit for me over carrying a 1D, 80 or Eos R and all the gear associated.

Like I mentioned, I am keeping the EOS R for astro and low light use AND that it was a gift from my wife before our Christmas vacation last year..to replace the T2i she bought me as a gift back in 2010, so I "can't" trade it in for other gear. :)

For me, smaller bodies like the Oly OMD and Panasonic GX line fit my needs more than a full size DLSR, for day to day daytime shooting.

So you can speculate all you wish, I have no issues with that, but sometimes, a post is just a post from an enthusiast sharing information, and nothing more.

The used EM1 MKI sparked an interest in me with Oly gear, so I bought the used EM5 MKII for cheap, and then traded in the 80D for the EM1 MKII.

I still have and love my EOS R with the RF 24-105 F4, the Sigma 20mm Art, Sigma 35mm Art and a Sigma 100-400 lens...I just simply do not plan to carry it around as much as I did.


:)
 
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Kit.

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 25, 2011
1,341
737
Another alternative is that I no longer wished to carry a lowepro Tactical 450II on vacation with me loaded with massive lenses, and I found a screaming deal on a used EM1-MK1 at kenmore camera for $369, and also a used Oly 12-40mm pro for $450 and found the combination of features and size for daytime shooting seems to be the right fit for me over carrying a 1D, 80 or Eos R and all the gear associated.
Why not a fixed-lens camera then? Why not a 1"?

I bought a Panasonic FZ1000 for 400 Euro (with two batteries and a CPL filter) as a backup to my 100-400L II for Kruger. An OK-ish camera for daytime shooting.
 

Cryhavoc

Eos R, EM1 Mk1, EM1 MkII, EM5 MkII
Jan 17, 2019
54
62
Seattle
Why not a fixed-lens camera then? Why not a 1"?

I bought a Panasonic FZ1000 for 400 Euro (with two batteries and a CPL filter) as a backup to my 100-400L II for Kruger. An OK-ish camera for daytime shooting.
sure why not.

Was looking at a Sony RX1R for $600 but decided against it. Was looking at a couple of Fuji's XT100's.
Ultimately I bought what I bought and am happy with them.
I also wanted a smaller ILC over a fixed lens system, so I passed on the RX1R. Sony, to this day, has never produced a firmware upgrade for it.

Doesn't mean I won't try out another brand camera to broaden my experience level.
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
7,890
1,011
119
sure why not.

Was looking at a Sony RX1R for $600 but decided against it. Was looking at a couple of Fuji's XT100's.
Ultimately I bought what I bought and am happy with them.
I also wanted a smaller ILC over a fixed lens system, so I passed on the RX1R. Sony, to this day, has never produced a firmware upgrade for it.

Doesn't mean I won't try out another brand camera to broaden my experience level.
I agree. I’m looking at the Fujifilm GFX 100 with the 45mm, it has five times the megapixels and well over 2 stops more DR than my 1DX MkII and is smaller and lighter as well. I’ll still keep and use an EOS M5 with the 22mm for when it is much more appropriate.
 
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old-pr-pix

EOS RP
Dec 26, 2011
391
33
Rumblings from a paranoid online shopper always alert for paid influencers.

Plan for influencing.

1) Remember to be patient to establish trust.
2) Open an account on a forum focused on a competitor's products.
3) Claim to be a user/owner of competitor's products.
4) Prove it with a flickr page.
5) After a few months, have an epiphany, a "woke" moment, and discover the truth about your secret sponsor's gear.
6) Post a gushing little advertisement with a click-baity subject line, and suggestions such as "IF you love your big Canon's and Nikon's and large lenses, you might not after giving m4/3rds an honest try out." Be sure to use a little awkward phrasing to sound more authentic!

No offense intended to the original OP, but see what I'm getting at here?

An alternate narrative might be that a photographer was approached by Olympus in the past few months to start promoting their gear in various online forums.

And another narrative? We have a typical, innocent photographer who had a genuine conversion experience and has felt compelled to share with others.

Everywhere we turn, as shoppers, voters, etc., we have to sort out narratives!!!
Fun speculation, yet not applicable here... I've been making photographs for nearly six decades - sometimes for money, sometimes for scientific reasons, sometimes for fun & family but never compensated by any camera manufacturer or retailer. For years I shot medium and large format and disparaged 35mm as too small, not able to hold detail, etc. But as films improved, and my needs changed, I gave 35mm a second chance. When the Canon A-1 came out I switched. I added a T-90 and F-1n. Eventually transitioned into EOS-EF with multiple bodies.

A few years back weight & kit size become a significant factor for me to continue to enjoy shooting. At the time I compared Oly OMD with then current Canon crop bodies. I found the 7D had too strong an AA filter so the OMD was actually sharper. The EOS-M was a slug to focus. So I bought into the m4/3 system. Were I to do the same evaluations today I might make different choices. But at this point I have significant investment in both Canon and m4/3 with multiple bodies and several lenses for each system. And, I enjoy each for their own capabilities. YMMV.
 
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AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,738
3,035
Why not a fixed-lens camera then? Why not a 1"?

I bought a Panasonic FZ1000 for 400 Euro (with two batteries and a CPL filter) as a backup to my 100-400L II for Kruger. An OK-ish camera for daytime shooting.
I use a Sony RX10 IV for similar reasons. It's actually brilliant for AF and IQ, and the deep dof can be a real advantage in photographing groups of animals or birds. But it's 4-5x the price, and worth it.
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,141
1,673
Canada
As a Canon user, with both FF and crop cameras, and with a pair of Olys at work, I like to think that I have a fairly balanced perspective.

as far as size goes, Oly is hard to beat. There are lots of lenses for the system, everything from kit to high end. It is a much more complete system than the M

as far as ergonomics go, any Canon FF camera, the 7 series, and the XXD series beats Oly hollow for ergonomic. Even the Rebels beat it. The M series are about the same as Oly for ergonomics.

Image quality? FF beats crop. Period! As to which is better between Canon crop and Oly, it really depends on what lens you are using.

Features? Up until lately there have been 4 big areas where Oly beat the pants off of M. With the M6 II we can remove burst rate and “pro capture” from that list. The remaining two are multiple shot stitching into super hi res photos, and image stabilization. The M has optical stabilization, the Olys have IBIS and a few lenses with optical stabilization. For those few lenses and the newest bodies, Oly wins the stabilization contest, for everything else it is too close to call

ultimately, we vote with our wallets. I have stayed away from the M series because, for me, they just were not worth it as Oly was so much better...... but the M6 II makes the race a lot closer. That said, there is an M6 II in my future
 
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Cryhavoc

Eos R, EM1 Mk1, EM1 MkII, EM5 MkII
Jan 17, 2019
54
62
Seattle
One thing that absolutely sold me on Oly gear are the bracketing features. Being able to set a large number of focus brackets and have the camera automatically take the pics and stitch it all together is awesome. My R does not do that and we paid $3399 for it with the 24-105mm in November. I know the RP can focus bracket, but I don't have one of those and the oly's were cheaper :)

Also, the 40mp shot on the M5 mkII and the 50mp shooting mode on the EM1 MKII are really cool features. Yes I know its not all that great for moving subjects, but for wide angle landscape shots on a tripod, it works wonderfully.

Also, going back to one of my earlier posts, I mentioned that I use the Lowepro 450 AW II tactical bag for my full frame gear.
Well I just received my Lowepro FastPack BP150 AWII and was able to fit two of my Oly's, chargers, grips, batteries and my surface tablet and it weighs 1/3'rd of what the fully loaded 450 does. That means alot to me since i had heart surgery a few weeks ago and the reduced weight will go a long way to easing the strain when we are doing the tourist things in tropical environments like my wife likes to drag me to.
 

CanonFanBoy

EOS 5D SR
Jan 28, 2015
4,073
1,618
Irving, Texas
Rumblings from a paranoid online shopper always alert for paid influencers.

Plan for influencing.

1) Remember to be patient to establish trust.
2) Open an account on a forum focused on a competitor's products.
3) Claim to be a user/owner of competitor's products.
4) Prove it with a flickr page.
5) After a few months, have an epiphany, a "woke" moment, and discover the truth about your secret sponsor's gear.
6) Post a gushing little advertisement with a click-baity subject line, and suggestions such as "IF you love your big Canon's and Nikon's and large lenses, you might not after giving m4/3rds an honest try out." Be sure to use a little awkward phrasing to sound more authentic!

No offense intended to the original OP, but see what I'm getting at here?

An alternate narrative might be that a photographer was approached by Olympus in the past few months to start promoting their gear in various online forums.

And another narrative? We have a typical, innocent photographer who had a genuine conversion experience and has felt compelled to share with others.

Everywhere we turn, as shoppers, voters, etc., we have to sort out narratives!!!
I have an Olympus. No comparison to full frame. My wife loves it. Conclusion: It's for girly girls taking snapshots.

I may do a shoot with it one day, but so far... no desire to do so. The ergonomics and menus are terrible, but has a cool classic look. It is compatible with all my existing Flashpoint R2 stobes.

Third photo is of the Olympus M=EM-5 Mark II adapted to the venerable EF 35mm f/1.4L II and then the 5D Mark III with the EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II. If adapting EF glass... there is absolutely no size advantage. The Olympus becomes a disadvantage ergonomically. The 35mm and 24-70mm are similar in size.

One note on the Olympus weather sealing: It is very good. We were at a splash pad with the grandson the other day and it took a direct hit and soaking from one of the big fountains. No problems. Just shoot it off and it kept working with no problems. Just trying to give some balance.

If you need to crop much? Forget it.
 

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old-pr-pix

EOS RP
Dec 26, 2011
391
33
I have an Olympus. No comparison to full frame. My wife loves it. Conclusion: It's for girly girls taking snapshots.

I may do a shoot with it one day, but so far... no desire to do so. The ergonomics and menus are terrible, but has a cool classic look. It is compatible with all my existing Flashpoint R2 stobes.

Third photo is of the Olympus M=EM-5 Mark II adapted to the venerable EF 35mm f/1.4L II and then the 5D Mark III with the EF 24-70mm f/2.8L II. If adapting EF glass... there is absolutely no size advantage. The Olympus becomes a disadvantage ergonomically. The 35mm and 24-70mm are similar in size.

One note on the Olympus weather sealing: It is very good. We were at a splash pad with the grandson the other day and it took a direct hit and soaking from one of the big fountains. No problems. Just shoot it off and it kept working with no problems. Just trying to give some balance.

If you need to crop much? Forget it.
We get it, you've got big hands so an Olympus isn't the camera for you. But, much like Sony, Olympus is good for the industry as they bring forward technology that others eventually copy. Their stabilization is industry leading. Things like higher frame rates (60 fps full RAW), fully processed in-camera focus bracketing, high-res. mode, and then hand-held high-res. are challenging all other manufacturers to move forward. Sure it's a smaller sensor with 16/20 MB resolution, and maybe that helps with the processing to make some of these technological advancements possible, but Olympus is pushing some of the AI and computational photography techniques that smart phones are so successfully using to kill off lesser 'real' cameras. Not all their cameras are small either. The E-M1X is just like a slightly scaled down 1DX only much lighter.

As to your E-M5II v. 5DIII shot - of course with an adapted lens the length is going to be similar - it has to be for the lens to focus right. Put a native 17mm lens on the E-M5II then do the comparison. And, check out all the other dimensions and the weight while you are at it. Sometimes a few of us 'girly girl' shooters actually use Oly cameras (or Panasonic) to do our jobs; but, I will admit to using the add-on grip on occasion.
 
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YuengLinger

EOS 5D MK IV
Dec 20, 2012
2,575
677
Southeastern USA
If we are lucky, we will all eventually become old and feeble. (It beats the alternative!) I'm glad Oly has a camera waiting for us. :p

It would also be comforting if Canon got on the ball and produced bodies with IBIS! But at this rate, they might be just as likely to retrofit the new Rf primes with IS...

Seriously, the aging photographers don't feel like they have time to wait for the next M6 that might have IBIS. :rolleyes: If IBIS isn't a big issue for you, just wait, someday it will be. Good photographers facing health and strength issues still want to take photos, and they are willing to deal with the big shortcomings of micro 4/3 to have a small camera with IBIS.

Another thing: I haven't checked it out myself, but a decades long Canon fanatic, one of my best friends, and a wonderful landscape photographer, is now making the switch, and he claims Oly has the equivalent of CPS. How good? I have no idea.

It doesn't matter who makes the best camera. If that camera is perceived as too heavy and not meeting the needs of a market segment that is growing year by year, it won't sell to that market segment.
 
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CanonFanBoy

EOS 5D SR
Jan 28, 2015
4,073
1,618
Irving, Texas
We get it, you've got big hands so an Olympus isn't the camera for you. But, much like Sony, Olympus is good for the industry as they bring forward technology that others eventually copy. Their stabilization is industry leading. Things like higher frame rates (60 fps full RAW), fully processed in-camera focus bracketing, high-res. mode, and then hand-held high-res. are challenging all other manufacturers to move forward. Sure it's a smaller sensor with 16/20 MB resolution, and maybe that helps with the processing to make some of these technological advancements possible, but Olympus is pushing some of the AI and computational photography techniques that smart phones are so successfully using to kill off lesser 'real' cameras. Not all their cameras are small either. The E-M1X is just like a slightly scaled down 1DX only much lighter.

As to your E-M5II v. 5DIII shot - of course with an adapted lens the length is going to be similar - it has to be for the lens to focus right. Put a native 17mm lens on the E-M5II then do the comparison. And, check out all the other dimensions and the weight while you are at it. Sometimes a few of us 'girly girl' shooters actually use Oly cameras (or Panasonic) to do our jobs; but, I will admit to using the add-on grip on occasion.
Girly girl was a joke. ;) Because my wife loves it. She's 4' 11" and always shoots in iAuto. But let us not forget that many who buy the Olympus will adapt their EF glass just like they do to the R due to the expense of switching or maintaining two different systems. Also, the FF RP is similar in size and weight and the price is also comparable. The Olympus takes very sharp pics with the one lens I have. I have no complaint there.

But Olympus lenses are not cheap either, and as a wise person once pointed out to me, the bokeh on a FF camera with a FF f/1.4 FF lens is very different from that of a 2x crop. And like I said... in low light and if cropping is needed much then they really do suck, IBIS or not. Noise is just awful. The R eye AF and face recognition puts it to shame.

Also, high burst rate is not something most people care about. That is very niche'. Frankly, 60fps takes up a lot of card and HD storage space. So for me, the Olympus doesn't cut it.

The Olympus has it's positives, I think I listed some, but it also carries a lot of negatives... including expensive fast native glass with a 2x crop, horrible menus, and terrible ergonomics. :) The OLY slow glass is very inexpensive. Adapting my vintage glass is also a nogo because of the 2X crop. And RP or R makes much better sense. A LOT of people bought into M4/3 for that and failed to take the 2x crop into consideration... me included.

Olympus M. Zuiko Digital ED 12-100mm f/4 IS PRO Zoom Lens for Micro Four Thirds System = $1,149
Olympus M. Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm F2.8 Pro Lens = $1,349
Olympus M. Zuiko Digital ED 7-14mm f2.8 Pro Lens = $1,299
Olympus M. Zuiko Digital ED 45mm f/1.2 Pro Lens = $1,149
Olympus M. Zuiko Digital ED 300mm F/4.0 IS Pro = $2,499
Olympus M. Zuiko Digital ED 25mm f/1.2 PRO Lens = $1,249

All with a 2x crop. So with those prices... adapting what one already has makes sense for some. The adaptation saves zero size and negligible weight. I cannot ever adapt my R glass to it.

If somebody can live with that... more power to them. Not for me. However, please don't take this as a personal attack on your choices. It isn't. Like I said, I may try a model shoot with one soon.


'Professional Sponsored YouTubers (Joe Eddleman comes to mind, with his Olympus arm tattoo) saying it is a one to one replacement for FF are simply liars.
 
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CanonFanBoy

EOS 5D SR
Jan 28, 2015
4,073
1,618
Irving, Texas
His previous record shows no trace of being a troll and I too think he is simply excited about his new kit. However, Adobe should simply come up with decent noise suppression. I am a DxO devotee as it is far better. As it is not yet compatible with the D90 I have bought a licence for PhotoNinja, which can take an Adobe .dng output and make it much better than Adobe.
He is definitely not a troll, I agree.
 

old-pr-pix

EOS RP
Dec 26, 2011
391
33
... The Olympus has it's positives, I think I listed some, but it also carries a lot of negatives... including expensive fast native glass with a 2x crop, horrible menus, and terrible ergonomics. :) The OLY slow glass is very inexpensive. Adapting my vintage glass is also a nogo because of the 2X crop. And RP or R makes much better sense. A LOT of people bought into M4/3 for that and failed to take the 2x crop into consideration... me included.

Olympus M. Zuiko Digital ED 12-100mm f/4 IS PRO Zoom Lens for Micro Four Thirds System = $1,149
Olympus M. Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm F2.8 Pro Lens = $1,349
Olympus M. Zuiko Digital ED 7-14mm f2.8 Pro Lens = $1,299
Olympus M. Zuiko Digital ED 45mm f/1.2 Pro Lens = $1,149
Olympus M. Zuiko Digital ED 300mm F/4.0 IS Pro = $2,499
Olympus M. Zuiko Digital ED 25mm f/1.2 PRO Lens = $1,249 ...
I prefer Canon for wide angle stuff for two reasons: 1) 3:2 aspect ratio seems more natural for wide angle shots compared with 4:3 ratio of m4/3 and 2) higher resolutions are available w/o using tripod (I don't have the EM1X which does 80 MB hand held high res.) For telephoto the game changes. The 2X crop is a definite advantage for those of us with more limited budgets. The Oly 40-150 f2.8 is equal in focal length and exposure value to an 80-300 f2.8 in FF terms. (Yes, I know it does not have the same shallow DOF, but frequently for event photography having more DOF is a very real advantage.) To get 300mm f2.8 L you are looking at over $6000. The Oly 300 f4 matches a 600 f4 L for reach and it is $2500 vs. $13,000 for a Canon equal. (Sure you can use a 300 f4L on a 5DSr and crop in but then you are spending the same amount for the lens and 3-4X for the body.) Again, my stuff is published in newsletters, etc. never over a two page spread or is used on-line. Is m4/3 equal to FF -- NO! Is it good enough for most of what I do -- YES. Of course, YMMV.
 
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CanonFanBoy

EOS 5D SR
Jan 28, 2015
4,073
1,618
Irving, Texas
I prefer Canon for wide angle stuff for two reasons: 1) 3:2 aspect ratio seems more natural for wide angle shots compared with 4:3 ratio of m4/3 and 2) higher resolutions are available w/o using tripod (I don't have the EM1X which does 80 MB hand held high res.) For telephoto the game changes. The 2X crop is a definite advantage for those of us with more limited budgets. The Oly 40-150 f2.8 is equal in focal length and exposure value to an 80-300 f2.8 in FF terms. (Yes, I know it does not have the same shallow DOF, but frequently for event photography having more DOF is a very real advantage.) To get 300mm f2.8 L you are looking at over $6000. The Oly 300 f4 matches a 600 f4 L for reach and it is $2500 vs. $13,000 for a Canon equal. (Sure you can use a 300 f4L on a 5DSr and crop in but then you are spending the same amount for the lens and 3-4X for the body.) Again, my stuff is published in newsletters, etc. never over a two page spread or is used on-line. Is m4/3 equal to FF -- NO! Is it good enough for most of what I do -- YES. Of course, YMMV.
Actually, the E-M5 Mark II allows one to select the following aspect ratios: 4:3, 16:9, 3:2, 1:1, and 3:4. So there are 5 choices in the one camera.

As far as a M4/3 Olympus 300mm f/4 matching the Canon 600 f/4L... no it doesn't. Not in low light it doesn't. Not even close. The light gathering ability of the two sensors is worlds apart. The same goes for all the other "equivalent" focal lengths in low light targets.

I shoot in my dark little apartment a lot. I can set my Olympus 17-40 Pro to 25mm and f/2.8 to take a photo without flash. Then I can take a Canon EF, Takumar, Mamiya, etc 50mm set at f/2.8 on FF and take the same photo without flash. The noise difference is astounding. So in that way, at the very least, they are not equivalent.

Either way, your needs, my needs, and the needs of others are all different. Always choose what is best for you. I hang my stuff on the wall at home. Newsletters and many magazines don't have as high a resolution standard. Newspapers absolutely don't.
 
Dec 24, 2014
6
1
Just tried out an Oly M1 mk ii for a few days. first couple of days was not happy. Then started to figure out settings and was pleased with results in particular bif. am Thinking of adding one to my kit. Since i primarily shoot birds the light weight is great. Hiking with my 7D ii and 100-400ii gets heavy Yes low light performance was poor for OMD. I just wish Canon would decided what the plan is.....getting tired of waiting for 7Dii replacement (Not 90D). One of the reasons I have started looking at other manufacturers.
 
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