EOS 70D & EOS 7D Mark II

brad-man

Semi-Reactive Member
Jun 6, 2012
1,578
426
S Florida
Re: EOS 70D & EOS 7D Mark II

Don Haines said:
The biggest surprise I've seen from Canon (or anyone else for that matter) in the last several years was the SX50. Everything else from everyone else seems to have been incremental improvements. The surprise is that they could make a 50X superzoom that works reasonably well... I thought that 30X was pushing it... had tried out several, and hated them. The SX50 works quite well in good light and in the right conditions outperforms lens/body combos that cost 20 times as much.

A bit better AF performance, a bit better ISO, a bit better noise, wifi, gps, a few more megapixels.... none of that will be a surprise. We all know that it will eventually happen. A surprise is something unexpected.

Perhaps a "surprise announcement" will come in the form of a mirrorless camera that takes EF lenses....
I think the Sony DSC-RX100 is a remarkable evolution of the point & shoot crowd. Too bad it rarely goes on sail.
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,265
1,923
Canada
Re: EOS 70D & EOS 7D Mark II

neuroanatomist said:
Sales drive revenue. Revenue drives profit. Profit is a major driver of share price and shareholder value. Share price and shareholder value determine whether a public company thrives, survives, or fails.

Betamax was better quality than VHS. VHS sold better. Betamax failed and was abandoned.
On a more DSLR related note, Olympus came out with 4/3 format. It was going to be a worldwide standard. Many things about thier cameras were ahead of what the Canon and Nikon crop bodies offered at the time. They had beter user interface, beter weatherproofing, arguably better sensor performance, and faster autofocusing..... and where is it now? ( 4/3... not micro 4/3 ). Sales sucked, product not stocked by retail stores, death spiral, gone.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,645
2,159
Re: EOS 70D & EOS 7D Mark II

Don Haines said:
neuroanatomist said:
Sales drive revenue. Revenue drives profit. Profit is a major driver of share price and shareholder value. Share price and shareholder value determine whether a public company thrives, survives, or fails.

Betamax was better quality than VHS. VHS sold better. Betamax failed and was abandoned.
On a more DSLR related note, Olympus came out with 4/3 format. It was going to be a worldwide standard. Many things about thier cameras were ahead of what the Canon and Nikon crop bodies offered at the time. They had beter user interface, beter weatherproofing, arguably better sensor performance, and faster autofocusing..... and where is it now? ( 4/3... not micro 4/3 ). Sales sucked, product not stocked by retail stores, death spiral, gone.
Well, the Olympus E5 got a DxOMark Overall Score of only 56. That must be why it didn't sell. ::)
 

bdunbar79

EOS 5D MK IV
May 16, 2012
3,152
0
40
Wadsworth, OH
Re: EOS 70D & EOS 7D Mark II

Don Haines said:
ankorwatt said:
Neuro, you have a habit to answer with sails,
Not to be picky here.... but I doubt that Canoe will ever be number one in "sails"..... they make consumer electronics, not boats.....
You even threw in the word "Canoe" for the icing on the cake! Well done.
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,265
1,923
Canada
Re: EOS 70D & EOS 7D Mark II

neuroanatomist said:
Don Haines said:
neuroanatomist said:
Sales drive revenue. Revenue drives profit. Profit is a major driver of share price and shareholder value. Share price and shareholder value determine whether a public company thrives, survives, or fails.

Betamax was better quality than VHS. VHS sold better. Betamax failed and was abandoned.
On a more DSLR related note, Olympus came out with 4/3 format. It was going to be a worldwide standard. Many things about thier cameras were ahead of what the Canon and Nikon crop bodies offered at the time. They had beter user interface, beter weatherproofing, arguably better sensor performance, and faster autofocusing..... and where is it now? ( 4/3... not micro 4/3 ). Sales sucked, product not stocked by retail stores, death spiral, gone.
Well, the Olympus E5 got a DxOMark Overall Score of only 56. That must be why it didn't sell. ::)
Personally, I've never paid a lot of attention to Dx0Mark scores. A lot of people fixate on sensors, but it seems far more important to deal with more important stuff first. I tend to shoot in good lighting conditions so I don't have a fanatical worry about ISO scores.

To me, the most important aspect of a camera system is the AF system. An in focus picture beats an out of focus picture. I don't care how much dynamic range or megapixels are involved.... Focus is of paramount importance.

My second criteria to look at is the glass. It does not matter if you are shooting anything from a rebel to a 1Dx, the resolution of the glass has to exceed the resolution of the body if you are going to push things to the limit. With the higher pixel density, this is far more important on crop bodies than FF bodies, but when a high megapixel FF body comes out, make sure you have top notch glass of you will get soft pictures. Stick a 100L Macro on a Rebel and it will take pictures so sharp it will amaze you.... put a $200 kit zoom on a rebel and you get mush.

My third criteria is good user interface.... gotta be able to control things on the fly and in a panic.... stepping through menus does not cut it.

New sensor? Yes it's important to me, but it is far from being everything to me. I use camera systems, not components in isolation. It is very important to me that whatever system I am using comes from a stable and profitable company. If they are loosing money, they run the risk of going away, and that leaves me with a shelf of orphan glass.
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,265
1,923
Canada
Re: EOS 70D & EOS 7D Mark II

bdunbar79 said:
Don Haines said:
ankorwatt said:
Neuro, you have a habit to answer with sails,
Not to be picky here.... but I doubt that Canoe will ever be number one in "sails"..... they make consumer electronics, not boats.....
You even threw in the word "Canoe" for the icing on the cake! Well done.
Oops... I just realized I forgot to post the picture to go with that...

(she is gorgeous and only 103 years old)

and for the sensor is everything crowd..... picture shot with an Olympus OM-1 using Kodachrome 64
 

Attachments

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,645
2,159
Re: EOS 70D & EOS 7D Mark II

Don Haines said:
(she is gorgeous and only 103 years old)
She doesn't look anywhere near that old. Maybe it's the hat and glasses? ;)
 

ddashti

EOS 80D
Mar 27, 2012
144
0
Re: EOS 70D & EOS 7D Mark II

Really hoping the "surprise" will be the 7D Mark II or something even better!
 

scottkinfw

Wildlife photography is my passion
Re: EOS 70D & EOS 7D Mark II

I don't know how or if this fits into this argument, but I think that the essential element in Betamax v. VHS was that VHS out marketed Betamax, and won the war despite being the inferior technology. Not sure if this applies in this debate.


neuroanatomist said:
ankorwatt said:
Neuro, you have a habit to answer with sails
Sales drive revenue. Revenue drives profit. Profit is a major driver of share price and shareholder value. Share price and shareholder value determine whether a public company thrives, survives, or fails.

Betamax was better quality than VHS. VHS sold better. Betamax failed and was abandoned.
 

wickidwombat

EOS 5D SR
Oct 27, 2011
4,543
0
Re: EOS 70D & EOS 7D Mark II

wow another thread hijacked with inane drivel and crap pictures comparing some nikons and canons ::)

while i'm no fan of the 18mp aps-c sensor i'm even less of a fan of this perpetual dead horse beating
can you please give it a rest ankorwatt it's very old and been done to death many times your point is clear
and does not need to be re-iterated again and again and again
 

aznable

EOS RP
Mar 6, 2012
229
0
51
Re: EOS 70D & EOS 7D Mark II

ankorwatt said:
Canon have lived on a long time on their name and early cmos sensor tech since 2004, sorry but this tech is old 2013 which can been seen if you compare to Nikon, Pentax, Sony = DXO scores etc why are not Canon in the DXO list over best sensors at all ?
Do you have any nuanced view at all whats going on ?This is the real difference between 18 and 24Mp APS as one example
and a 15mpix sensor that destroys your beloved nikon/sony/put a brand name,they are all based on same technology...go out and buy an sd1 if the sensor is your only concern



the nikon d7100....a joke of a camera with a ridicolous buffer; even my 50D has a buffer enough big to store more than double the images the d7100 is capable of...lol
 
M

M.ST

Guest
Re: EOS 70D & EOS 7D Mark II

A “surprise” announcement will be a Canon APS-C camera with the new outstanding image improvement technology announced a few month before, a non 18 megapixel sensor, a non 9 AF point system, a hitrate in AI servo mode like the GH3 (7D around 40 %, GH3 around 86 % hitrate) hitrate and a video quality like the GH3.

Two differenz 7D Mark II´s are out for testing. But I don´t think Canon put the camera on the market until some problems are fixed. It´s a shame that Canon fixed a lot of errors of the 5D Mark III (reported before the announcement) after more than one year.

Don´t wait for new stuff. You can´t shoot pictures with future products.
 

vscd

5DC
Jan 12, 2013
435
1
Germany
Re: EOS 70D & EOS 7D Mark II

@M.ST Nice collection in your footnote. You already have the Nikon D4X? ;) How do you choose which cam to take out? I'm still confused with my 4 or 5 Cams... I'll sell most of them soon, I'm sick of the headache of choosing everytime I want to shoot some photos ;)
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,645
2,159
Re: EOS 70D & EOS 7D Mark II

dilbert said:
Don Haines said:
neuroanatomist said:
Sales drive revenue. Revenue drives profit. Profit is a major driver of share price and shareholder value. Share price and shareholder value determine whether a public company thrives, survives, or fails.

Betamax was better quality than VHS. VHS sold better. Betamax failed and was abandoned.
On a more DSLR related note, Olympus came out with 4/3 format. It was going to be a worldwide standard. Many things about thier cameras were ahead of what the Canon and Nikon crop bodies offered at the time. They had beter user interface, beter weatherproofing, arguably better sensor performance, and faster autofocusing..... and where is it now? ( 4/3... not micro 4/3 ). Sales sucked, product not stocked by retail stores, death spiral, gone.
I don't think you're paying attention.

Look at the sales figures for MILC cameras (Mirrorless Interchangable Lens Cameras).

And if that market was a dead end that was dying then why would Canon have released the EOS-M?
4/3 dSLR, not m4/3 MILC, is what was stated. The most recent 4/3 camera is the Olympus E-5, a 'pro' body almost 3 years old that no one expects will be replaced. It's #3,139 in Amazon's sales ranking. The 'consumer' line of 4/3 cameras (E-xxx) stopped with the E-600 in 2009. Panasonic and Leica tried the format, dropped it over 6 years ago.

So, who's not paying attention? You, dilbert. But at least you've figured out we're talking about cameras, not lenses, this time. Bravo.
 

insanitybeard

EOS RP
Mar 20, 2012
303
0
40
South west UK
Re: EOS 70D & EOS 7D Mark II

c.d.embrey said:
I'm thinking that the 70D and 7D2 will be too-little-too-late. :(
Because historically Nikon never trailed Canon did they? They never had to catch up with anybody else?

I'm so tired of all this 'Canon are entering the graveyard spiral' stuff. What you actually mean is 'it will be too little too late - FOR YOU'. Not everybody. Canon may fail, or they may not. But neither you or I can make those kind of statements with any certainty.
 
H

Hobby Shooter

Guest
Re: EOS 70D & EOS 7D Mark II

neuroanatomist said:
dilbert said:
Don Haines said:
neuroanatomist said:
Sales drive revenue. Revenue drives profit. Profit is a major driver of share price and shareholder value. Share price and shareholder value determine whether a public company thrives, survives, or fails.

Betamax was better quality than VHS. VHS sold better. Betamax failed and was abandoned.
On a more DSLR related note, Olympus came out with 4/3 format. It was going to be a worldwide standard. Many things about thier cameras were ahead of what the Canon and Nikon crop bodies offered at the time. They had beter user interface, beter weatherproofing, arguably better sensor performance, and faster autofocusing..... and where is it now? ( 4/3... not micro 4/3 ). Sales sucked, product not stocked by retail stores, death spiral, gone.
I don't think you're paying attention.

Look at the sales figures for MILC cameras (Mirrorless Interchangable Lens Cameras).

And if that market was a dead end that was dying then why would Canon have released the EOS-M?
4/3 dSLR, not m4/3 MILC, is what was stated. The most recent 4/3 camera is the Olympus E-5, a 'pro' body almost 3 years old that no one expects will be replaced. It's #3,139 in Amazon's sales ranking. The 'consumer' line of 4/3 cameras (E-xxx) stopped with the E-600 in 2009. Panasonic and Leica tried the format, dropped it over 6 years ago.

So, who's not paying attention? You, dilbert. But at least you've figured out we're talking about cameras, not lenses, this time. Bravo.
Sometimes you're my hero man!
 

ZoeEnPhos

©­­®¹
Re: EOS 70D & EOS 7D Mark II

Don Haines said:
neuroanatomist said:
Don Haines said:
neuroanatomist said:
Sales drive revenue. Revenue drives profit. Profit is a major driver of share price and shareholder value. Share price and shareholder value determine whether a public company thrives, survives, or fails.

Betamax was better quality than VHS. VHS sold better. Betamax failed and was abandoned.
On a more DSLR related note, Olympus came out with 4/3 format. It was going to be a worldwide standard. Many things about thier cameras were ahead of what the Canon and Nikon crop bodies offered at the time. They had beter user interface, beter weatherproofing, arguably better sensor performance, and faster autofocusing..... and where is it now? ( 4/3... not micro 4/3 ). Sales sucked, product not stocked by retail stores, death spiral, gone.
Well, the Olympus E5 got a DxOMark Overall Score of only 56. That must be why it didn't sell. ::)
Personally, I've never paid a lot of attention to Dx0Mark scores. A lot of people fixate on sensors, but it seems far more important to deal with more important stuff first. I tend to shoot in good lighting conditions so I don't have a fanatical worry about ISO scores.

To me, the most important aspect of a camera system is the AF system. An in focus picture beats an out of focus picture. I don't care how much dynamic range or megapixels are involved.... Focus is of paramount importance.

My second criteria to look at is the glass. It does not matter if you are shooting anything from a rebel to a 1Dx, the resolution of the glass has to exceed the resolution of the body if you are going to push things to the limit. With the higher pixel density, this is far more important on crop bodies than FF bodies, but when a high megapixel FF body comes out, make sure you have top notch glass of you will get soft pictures. Stick a 100L Macro on a Rebel and it will take pictures so sharp it will amaze you.... put a $200 kit zoom on a rebel and you get mush.

My third criteria is good user interface.... gotta be able to control things on the fly and in a panic.... stepping through menus does not cut it.

New sensor? Yes it's important to me, but it is far from being everything to me. I use camera systems, not components in isolation. It is very important to me that whatever system I am using comes from a stable and profitable company. If they are loosing money, they run the risk of going away, and that leaves me with a shelf of orphan glass.

+1

A short-note!
As always, the greatest image quality will quickly be negated by focusing errors. AF accuracy is extremely important for the the combination of DSLR and the lens in use - especially AI Servo AF accuracy.
And not to forget especially with a shallow DOF (Depth of Field), even small focusing errors will ruin the shot.
Also - if you need to use a Extender with your lens - Canon has stated this: " "These new extenders (version III) have been designed to provide faster autofocusing and improved autofocus precision with compatible EF lenses" and "Each extender also features a newly developed microcomputer that increases AF precision when the extenders are used with a IS Series II EF super-telephoto lens." [Canon USA]
So then - we should bear in mind that the Canon USA press release does not specifically say that the series III extenders would deliver better image quality (though features were added that could) - but that they would deliver better AF performance.
- Although the AF improvement will not result in better than the optical capability of the lens-plus-extender combination, better AF performance does indeed deliver better image quality overall and that is crucial!
Happy shootings to you all!
C
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,265
1,923
Canada
Re: EOS 70D & EOS 7D Mark II

neuroanatomist said:
dilbert said:
Don Haines said:
neuroanatomist said:
Sales drive revenue. Revenue drives profit. Profit is a major driver of share price and shareholder value. Share price and shareholder value determine whether a public company thrives, survives, or fails.

Betamax was better quality than VHS. VHS sold better. Betamax failed and was abandoned.
On a more DSLR related note, Olympus came out with 4/3 format. It was going to be a worldwide standard. Many things about thier cameras were ahead of what the Canon and Nikon crop bodies offered at the time. They had beter user interface, beter weatherproofing, arguably better sensor performance, and faster autofocusing..... and where is it now? ( 4/3... not micro 4/3 ). Sales sucked, product not stocked by retail stores, death spiral, gone.
I don't think you're paying attention.

Look at the sales figures for MILC cameras (Mirrorless Interchangable Lens Cameras).

And if that market was a dead end that was dying then why would Canon have released the EOS-M?
4/3 dSLR, not m4/3 MILC, is what was stated. The most recent 4/3 camera is the Olympus E-5, a 'pro' body almost 3 years old that no one expects will be replaced. It's #3,139 in Amazon's sales ranking. The 'consumer' line of 4/3 cameras (E-xxx) stopped with the E-600 in 2009. Panasonic and Leica tried the format, dropped it over 6 years ago.

So, who's not paying attention? You, dilbert. But at least you've figured out we're talking about cameras, not lenses, this time. Bravo.
We are talking 4/3, a DSLR crop body, and the market is most certainly not dead. Olympus failed to capture sales despite technical excellence..... So they let the line die. This is why many of us say that sales matter. Who cares how good the camera is if it isn't made. Just like Betamax, no sales became no more new 4/3 cameras. One might argue that sales are the most important aspect of a camera.
 

Bob Howland

EOS 7D MK II
Mar 25, 2012
493
94
Re: EOS 70D & EOS 7D Mark II

dilbert said:
We’re told a “surprise” announcement will be made by Canon in July, what that is we’re unsure. However, the source alluded to it being a camera body. I wouldn’t call the EOS 70D a “surprise”, but we’ll see. Could it be…….. something else?
Lets see...
* Canon announces RAW video in official firmware
* Canon announces 4k video in official firmware for 1DX/5DIII with some special add on device
* Canon announces a m4/3 camera plus lenses
* Canon announces a new EOS-M series camera that is radically different
* Canon announces a DSLR wither either hybrid or pure EVF
* Canon announces a DSLR that is modeled on the Ricoh GX-R with a plugable sensor/CPU module
* Canon announces a 70D with the autofocus from the 5DIII
* Canon announces a new APS-H DSLR (not likely)

... other ideas?
I like your fifth idea! How about both the 7D and 70D both being mirrorless cameras with shortened flange distances and Canon introducing a 1-1/3 stop Speed Booster-like adapter? The FF cameras could keep the standard flange distance and mirrors for photographic Neanderthals. The M-mount might have been introduced, half-heartedly, solely to allow a reduction in camera size.
 

LetTheRightLensIn

EOS 5D SR
Apr 19, 2011
4,761
1
Re: EOS 70D & EOS 7D Mark II

dilbert said:
We’re told a “surprise” announcement will be made by Canon in July, what that is we’re unsure. However, the source alluded to it being a camera body. I wouldn’t call the EOS 70D a “surprise”, but we’ll see. Could it be…….. something else?
Lets see...
* Canon announces RAW video in official firmware
* Canon announces 4k video in official firmware for 1DX/5DIII with some special add on device
* Canon announces a m4/3 camera plus lenses
* Canon announces a new EOS-M series camera that is radically different
* Canon announces a DSLR wither either hybrid or pure EVF
* Canon announces a DSLR that is modeled on the Ricoh GX-R with a plugable sensor/CPU module
* Canon announces a 70D with the autofocus from the 5DIII
* Canon announces a new APS-H DSLR (not likely)

... other ideas?
Canon introduces the 5D3FUML which is exactly the same as the 5D3 only it ships with firmware locking out firmware hacking ;D. That just might well start a revolution. ;)