EOS R AF Question..

Viggo

EOS 5D SR
Dec 13, 2010
4,440
1,105
Hi guys!

I’ve started enabling the Show AF point in review/play and noticed that for tracking it VERY often show the AF point where initially was and not where I moved it when shooting bursts. I enabled this function because of the crazy poor hit rate with fast subjects. And it seems indeed for faster subjects that the AF point doesn’t really track, it just stays where it was when the shutter is being pressed. I’m so bad at explaining this, but as seen in my examples the focus didn’t even try, it just stay behind and never pickes up the subject. It feels like using pre-focus instead of Ai Servo (which of course is enabled).

Is this because the RF50 and RF85 are way too slow or is it the body that just doesn’t respond when things are moving faster? My 1-series and 5-series bodies have always at least tried, but the R seems to just throw it hands in the air and be like, I’m not even going to try that...

A lot of cat shots when they jump the af point sits where they sit before the jump, and when moving the camera/af point to follow their movement it doesn’t leave the spot where they were. So sudden movements is never focused. Many times the shutter doesn’t even release even though I have set it to prioritize shutter release (5 fps).

I’ve tried every AF mode and settings imaginable .

The camera works great with everything else and slow, even movements are no issue.

I so wish I could have a go with the RF70-200 to find out where the bottleneck is...

Seriously frustrating stuff, especially since tracking slower movements is incredibly accurate ..

thanks!
 

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Mt Spokane Photography

I post too Much on Here!!
Mar 25, 2011
15,791
937
If you have already tried adjusting Tracking sensitivy, Accel/decel. tracking, and Af pt auto switching, thats about all I could suggest. I've never actually tracked quickly accelerating objects.
 

Viggo

EOS 5D SR
Dec 13, 2010
4,440
1,105
If you have already tried adjusting Tracking sensitivy, Accel/decel. tracking, and Af pt auto switching, thats about all I could suggest. I've never actually tracked quickly accelerating objects.
Indeed I have. Wonder if anybody besides me sees this, then it’s just what it is. Or theirs are capable of getting fast action.

due to our currency plummeting there will be no R5 for me...:unsure:
 

Mt Spokane Photography

I post too Much on Here!!
Mar 25, 2011
15,791
937
The Yen is a very strong currency right now, they have relatively few cases of Coronavirus and if that continues, it will help somewhat. However, if no one is buying the ever higher priced Japanese products, prices need to drop, so things do even out over time.
 
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Viggo

EOS 5D SR
Dec 13, 2010
4,440
1,105
Dollar to Norwegian krone was around 8.8 when I bought the RF85, no it’s almost 12! Already the prices here have increased a lot, and it won’t stop for quite a while. But, you’re right, if the prices go the point where no one buys anything then what? They can’t sell with a loss and they can’t sell nothing..
 

Mt Spokane Photography

I post too Much on Here!!
Mar 25, 2011
15,791
937
If the Yen rises in value against a currency, its bad. The manufacturer gets less money and price has to go up. Sales drop, so its a issue. In the past, and even now, Canon has a pot of money they are using to acquire new business. They can drop prices to a degree and still survive. They made 1.6 Billion USD last year in profits, and have close to 5 billion in cash.
 
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YuengLinger

EOS 5D MK IV
Dec 20, 2012
2,856
1,099
Southeastern USA
I seem to have better luck with AF Spread, I think it is called. A box surrounded by smaller squares. But I have to do the tracking myself. Are you talking about zone AF?

But I have recently seen the AF give up with busy backgrounds. Just pauses.
 
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Viggo

EOS 5D SR
Dec 13, 2010
4,440
1,105
I seem to have better luck with AF Spread, I think it is called. A box surrounded by smaller squares. But I have to do the tracking myself. Are you talking about zone AF?

But I have recently seen the AF give up with busy backgrounds. Just pauses.
Expansion points, tried that the most, I avoid zone AF and auto tracking for these shots. Still the annoying part is that it doesn’t even try ..
 

YuengLinger

EOS 5D MK IV
Dec 20, 2012
2,856
1,099
Southeastern USA
Expansion points, tried that the most, I avoid zone AF and auto tracking for these shots. Still the annoying part is that it doesn’t even try ..
I also tend to get ready with my focus distance, and I do go for shorter bursts. But, clearly the R is not a sports and action dream machine. I can tell you that lenses used, make a huge difference. Forget the 85 for action! Just too much glass to move. The 50 is better. Zooms even more so, but still limited by burst and busy backgrounds for me.

Could you try some situations with subjects against a clean background? Then compare to more real world scenarios?
 
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Viggo

EOS 5D SR
Dec 13, 2010
4,440
1,105
I also tend to get ready with my focus distance, and I do go for shorter bursts. But, clearly the R is not a sports and action dream machine. I can tell you that lenses used, make a huge difference. Forget the 85 for action! Just too much glass to move. The 50 is better. Zooms even more so, but still limited by burst and busy backgrounds for me.

Could you try some situations with subjects against a clean background? Then compare to more real world scenarios?
The cat shots was with the 50. I know not to compare to the 1-series for action, I just wanted to know if it will help with another lens or another body or what the issue is. I’ve tried shooting the cats indoors with plain colored walls behind, makes no difference I’m a afraid..
 

Nelu

5D Mark IV, 1Dx, EOS R
Seriously frustrating stuff, especially since tracking slower movements is incredibly accurate ..

thanks!
A couple of weekends ago I shot a lot of pictures of my skier friends, moving rapidly towards me in the great powder at Lake Louise.
I had absolutely no issues getting them and keeping them in focus.

In your case, I think the camera failed to acquire focus to start with, it didn't lose it. Sometimes it happens, especially with AI-Servo (Continuous Autofocus)
You might want to have your camera checked by Canon or try another camera from one of your buddies.
 
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YuengLinger

EOS 5D MK IV
Dec 20, 2012
2,856
1,099
Southeastern USA
A bit of a tangent from your issues, Viggo, but I'm finding something very interesting with the R. Now, this might be due to my getting to know the camera better, to work around certain issues enough to no longer consciously consider them, but I get the impression that the camera has the capacity to "learn." That using it often enough leads to improved performance.

One really clear example would be with an older Sigma macro lens. At first it was very frustrating no matter how I set the delimiter, but over time it has gotten to be so quick and sharp it seems as if I'm using a different combo. Maybe I'm just unconsciously anticipating distance, but it really seems that there is a database of some kind that acquires usage data and then gets used by the AF processors.

Sounds cuckoo, I know, but as I discover occasional new frustrations, I seem to, overall, find the R just gets better with use, whether I'm using Rf mount lenses, Canon EF, or my Sigma macro.
 
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YuengLinger

EOS 5D MK IV
Dec 20, 2012
2,856
1,099
Southeastern USA
After trying some more action shots on the EOS R, I'm finding that it works fine for freezing action, but, naturally, the burst rate limits how many frames we can choose from.

I've tried with zoom and with primes. I've set with AF Servo, smallest one point AF, Highspeed burst. If my lens has IS, I turn it off for shutter speeds over 1/1000th. That is arbitrary, but I do get slightly sharper than when it is on at very high speeds. I really don't think it is any worse for action than my 5DIV in terms of AF accuracy, but it just can't keep up with faster moving subjects because of the burst rate.

My Tracking, Acceleration, and Switching settings are 0, +1, and 0, respectively.

It's possible my 5D IV got less confused by busy backgrounds (e.g. woods with lots of contrast branches behind an open field) but, with it gone now, I can't compare side by side.
 
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Viggo

EOS 5D SR
Dec 13, 2010
4,440
1,105
A couple of weekends ago I shot a lot of pictures of my skier friends, moving rapidly towards me in the great powder at Lake Louise.
I had absolutely no issues getting them and keeping them in focus.

In your case, I think the camera failed to acquire focus to start with, it didn't lose it. Sometimes it happens, especially with AI-Servo (Continuous Autofocus)
You might want to have your camera checked by Canon or try another camera from one of your buddies.
Which lens?
 

Viggo

EOS 5D SR
Dec 13, 2010
4,440
1,105
Noticed today also that pressing the shutter for the decisive moment is very difficult with the lag in the EVF. My daughter was jumping with a jump rope and I took a shot each time she was at the highest and every single shot where I did that, the picture was taken while she stood on the ground. Have up until now thought either the camera or I was too slow, but it seems it’s the lag between pressing the shutter and the picture is actually taken and the lag from the actual event until it shows up in the EVF. The burst rate is fine for me and it seems responsive, but was very obvious it doesn’t keep up with a movement like that. Focus was no issue as she wasn’t moving other than up and down.
 

ildyria

I'm New Here
Mar 5, 2020
19
18
I'm doing sports photography (ballroom, so shutter speed around 1/400 to 1/800) with my R and a EF 70-200 f/2.8, recently invested in a 135mm f/2. Both of them are working great in Servo AI + High Speed burst. I'm either doing focus on small point or sometimes eye-AF.
I did notice however that it starts to hunts a LOT when going in the 6400 ISO and even worse at 12800 ISO...
I'm using Tracking settings: +1, +1, +1
 
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ildyria

I'm New Here
Mar 5, 2020
19
18
Also, I forgot to mention, I am countering the EVF lag & my reaction time by:
  • shooting with both eyes open (depending of the focal),
  • doing preemptive burst (useful for kicks...)
  • or counting the beat and pressing the shutter on tempo rather that on what I see (extremely efficient in Cha-cha and Rumba, not applicable in standard dances as those are more "flowy")
 
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CanonFanBoy

Really O.K. Boomer
Jan 28, 2015
4,816
2,792
Irving, Texas
Noticed today also that pressing the shutter for the decisive moment is very difficult with the lag in the EVF. My daughter was jumping with a jump rope and I took a shot each time she was at the highest and every single shot where I did that, the picture was taken while she stood on the ground. Have up until now thought either the camera or I was too slow, but it seems it’s the lag between pressing the shutter and the picture is actually taken and the lag from the actual event until it shows up in the EVF. The burst rate is fine for me and it seems responsive, but was very obvious it doesn’t keep up with a movement like that. Focus was no issue as she wasn’t moving other than up and down.
Viggo, is an R5 in your future? :) Hope you are well during these times. Everything is pretty much locked down here in Texas, USA. I've not done anything in weeks. Take care, my friend.