Feature update announcements coming to the Canon EOS R and Canon Cinema EOS C200 ahead of NAB

Mar 29, 2019
8
15
I'm not a video guy but would someone explain why external RAW is a big feature?
Inernal or external, doesn't really matter. For internal though you would need extremely expensive memory cards as the file sizes and bit rates are huge. With external it's cheaper, because you can write it directly to a ssd, which come in way bigger capacity and much lower prices.
On top of that, if you're shooting video in raw, you're going pro anyway and in that case you'll ALWAYS use an external monitor, like the mentioned ninja V, which is also an external recorder using ssd drives.
I guess you know what RAW is. It's the same as RAW in photography. It allows you to shoot "iso-less". You can change your exposure (ISO) and also the color temperature AFTER you shot your video, in the post.
As I said, the difference between normal video and raw is the same as in photography. It's like shooting photos in jpeg (normal video or flat profiles, like log) and then you got RAW which gives you all of the flexibility to regain your shadows or your highlights without losing any detail. Same for the temperature. You basically use your camera's sensor capabilities to its fullest extent.
 

Graphic.Artifacts

EOS 7D MK II
Aug 1, 2017
425
244
RAW output is an interesting idea for the EOS R. If the R doesn't have to process, compress and write the video stream that could reduce strain on the cameras internals and may improve the readout/rolling shutter issues. I'd say it might enable higher frame rates but 60p RAW sounds like a lot of data to push through HDMI.
 

padam

EOS 7D MK II
Aug 26, 2015
582
209
RAW output is an interesting idea for the EOS R. If the R doesn't have to process, compress and write the video stream that could reduce strain on the cameras internals and may improve the readout/rolling shutter issues. I'd say it might enable higher frame rates but 60p RAW sounds like a lot of data to push through HDMI.
It makes absolutely no difference to rolling shutter or readout speed(there is no camera where external/internal makes any difference at all in that regard), it is just a different codec and of course 4k60p would be possible on a 1DXII if it had more modern processors and HDMI interface, but not on the EOS R with that sensor.
 

peters

EOS T7i
Dec 25, 2017
94
84
WOW
This is HUGE! Realy!
The c200 main problem was the missing "in between" codec - it got only medium "meh" quality and "high and who the hell can heandle 8989gb/s?"-quality. This could be a BIG upgrade for the c200 (at least for me, as someone with a need for a good 4k camera for LONG recordings per day).


The second thing: RAW via HDMI out on the EOS R? My understanding of RAW tells me, that this is just completely bollocks, from a technical standpoint. RAW is taken BEFORE the bayer matrix is even analyzed... how can this be taken out via HDMI, which is a already converted video signal? I may be wrogn though. This simply sounds too good to be true.



However, so far about the "there is no major upgrade for canon this year". If this is true, this could be a HUGE gamechanger for my plans on upgrading (currently on a 1dx II, in search of a decent 4k camera with the ability to record in a reasonable file size for hours)
 

peters

EOS T7i
Dec 25, 2017
94
84
I'm not a video guy but would someone explain why external RAW is a big feature?
RAW is the light that is received by the sensor. The sensor than changes this information to a "RGB" value per pixel. The image processor uses a lot of information to do so and it includes stuff like white balance and it also throws away a lot of data. Than it its stored as a RGB image and than it its compressed.

If you have the "RAW image" than you cant "realy" change the white balance, the colors, or restore the data that was thrown out, in case you want to heavily grade the image. If you have the RAW, you have FULL control over how the image is processed. You should google it. RAW vs JPG is the REAL gamechanger. There is A LOT of talk about how 12 bit, 10 bit, 8 bit , 4:2:2, 4:2:0 etc. is changing the quality. But this is pretty much completeley unimportant, neglectable stuff that is happening AFTER the RAW-converter. A RAW-Image is the real deal that makes alle this other discussons ridiculous :-D
 

Go Wild

EOS 80D
Dec 8, 2014
110
51
If Canon do that with the EOS R would be awesome and I gain hope again in canon!!! :D (For hybrid cameras) What we don´t know... If this is true... that external raw recording in 4k? Or only 1080p? I know it´s a kinda silly question because everybody believes that less than 4k would be ridiculous...I am asking this because we have this problem in Canon cameras, my 1dxmkII does not record 4k externaly, only records 1080p to an external recorder via hdmi. And also it would be a little awkward to believe that we can have a camera that records 4k raw at 30fps... and only makes 720p 120fps....Well, but this are good news and shows Canon commitment to recover a somehow lost path in this last 2 years...(I refer again, in this market, the hybrid cameras!)
 
Mar 29, 2019
8
15
WOW
This is HUGE! Realy!
The c200 main problem was the missing "in between" codec - it got only medium "meh" quality and "high and who the hell can heandle 8989gb/s?"-quality. This could be a BIG upgrade for the c200 (at least for me, as someone with a need for a good 4k camera for LONG recordings per day).


The second thing: RAW via HDMI out on the EOS R? My understanding of RAW tells me, that this is just completely bollocks, from a technical standpoint. RAW is taken BEFORE the bayer matrix is even analyzed... how can this be taken out via HDMI, which is a already converted video signal? I may be wrogn though. This simply sounds too good to be true.



However, so far about the "there is no major upgrade for canon this year". If this is true, this could be a HUGE gamechanger for my plans on upgrading (currently on a 1dx II, in search of a decent 4k camera with the ability to record in a reasonable file size for hours)
RAW via hdmi is possible because nowadays hdmi cables aren't only for pure video signals, they're ethernet cables at the same time, so you can send any type of information over them.

By the way, Nikon's Z6 is ALREADY using this same technique for external RAW recording in conjunction with the Atomos external monitor. And it works just fine.
 
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PureClassA

Canon since age 5. The A1
Aug 15, 2014
1,646
244
Mandeville, LA
Shields-Photography.com
YES!! External RAW to the NINJA is one of the exact things I was counting on as Nikon had already announced this for the Z and the NINJA. That really makes the EOS R an ever more attractive video piece for those who want to marry a smaller body to the Cinema line counterparts. If they also unlock the 4K60 (at least in HDMI output external recording) this will become a monster for video. I'm far less faithful that will happen, but I can wish for now.
 

PureClassA

Canon since age 5. The A1
Aug 15, 2014
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Mandeville, LA
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If Canon do that with the EOS R would be awesome and I gain hope again in canon!!! :D (For hybrid cameras) What we don´t know... If this is true... that external raw recording in 4k? Or only 1080p? I know it´s a kinda silly question because everybody believes that less than 4k would be ridiculous...I am asking this because we have this problem in Canon cameras, my 1dxmkII does not record 4k externaly, only records 1080p to an external recorder via hdmi. And also it would be a little awkward to believe that we can have a camera that records 4k raw at 30fps... and only makes 720p 120fps....Well, but this are good news and shows Canon commitment to recover a somehow lost path in this last 2 years...(I refer again, in this market, the hybrid cameras!)
RAW would be external only to a compatible recorder, which as of now is the Atomos Ninja V, which Nikon announced the same feature with their Z line months ago at release. I'm glad Canon responded accordingly.
 

PureClassA

Canon since age 5. The A1
Aug 15, 2014
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You get much wider range of adjustments on the files, much closer to what you can achieve with any photo editing software in stills, so better color and better dynamic range (less compression, although in this case, the internal codec is already pretty strong in that regard)
If you look up 5D Mark III raw video, you can see how much better it can be, although that camera had soft video even after hacking (but you still see the color and the dynamic range being different), while in this case the 4k will be very sharp and free of artifacts. This is generally what you see in recent Netflix or other shows, where they also record in raw with professional video cameras and grade it later on.
More latitude in color grading and typically greater retention in DR. Same as shooting JPG vs RAW in stills. Granted this isn't the full blown "Big" RAW you'd get in a C500 or such, but it is a step up from the Motion JPG codec.
 

CanonGrunt

EOS 80D
Jan 28, 2012
130
24
Canon deleted the tweet that said raw recording and replaced it with one that just says external recording. Perhaps they tipped their hand early?
183699
183701
 

PureClassA

Canon since age 5. The A1
Aug 15, 2014
1,646
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5D3 guy here with MLV RAW
and I was looking at BMPCC4k + EF Speedbooster (or wait for A7SIII)
If this external RAW is true, surely I'll be getting EOS R instead.
You just made an excellent observation. There’s a lot of video folks who have played with ML on the 5D3 including myself in order to grab RAW capture in 1080. Having it available in an EOS R may finally get a lot of those folks to jump over. Canon isnt a big fan of ML obviously. And this puts them on even footing with the Z6 Raw to Ninja.
 
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PureClassA

Canon since age 5. The A1
Aug 15, 2014
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Canon deleted the tweet that said raw recording and replaced it with one that just says external recording. Perhaps they tipped their hand early?
"External" Makes no sense. EOS R already records everything externally. What else could be added except for ProRes RAW lol. If they didn't wanna tip their hat, they should not have even done such a poll. :sneaky::p
 
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PureClassA

Canon since age 5. The A1
Aug 15, 2014
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Well the cinema line does similar with super 35
Yeah I get people are annoyed by the crop and won't do a full read out like the Sonys... But The EOR 4K looks better than the Sony a73. Tradeoffs. They only way this will improve is if Canon makes a 12MP sensor for a dedicated video machine like the a7S. I suspect the a7S3 will resolve on par with EOS R but will of course get you a full frame crop.

Given that Canon is adding a major upper level video component to the EOS R (ProResRAW) it seems UNlikely we will see a dedicated R line video machine anytime soon. But I'm not complaining about the EOS R. I'm real close to getting one now especially because my DX2 (while making beautiful cinematic video) is a beast to hand hold or even gimbal for video shooting...
 
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joejohnbear

EOS 80D
Sep 11, 2014
138
0
"External" Makes no sense. EOS R already records everything externally. What else could be added except for ProRes RAW lol. If they didn't wanna tip their hat, they should not have even done such a poll. :sneaky::p
Canon C200 already records Canon Raw Lite internally as a feature since day one, so the poll would unfortunately make sense with the correction.
 
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joejohnbear

EOS 80D
Sep 11, 2014
138
0
I imagine that Atomos made the same deal with Canon that they made with Nikon for the Z6 and Z7 that is supposed to record external pro res raw to the new Ninja recorder, not complete raw. Either way, I'll buy one same day if they do it. Now only if the darn thing would capture DCI 4k instead of UHD...
Irritated that the 4:2:0 8 bit .mp4 on Canon C200 is UHD not DCI 4K.

If they really do release 4:2:2 10 bit, I do hope they add support for external 4:2:2 10 bit Pro Res HQ or Raw through HDMI to Ninja V, because the SDI limit to 1920*1080 and HDMI out to UHD is pretty annoying. It would be pretty nice not having to convert the footage for FCP X.