Flash and wildlife

[Ozarker]

So I agree, my flash isn't nature. Nature is far more harsh and yet, the Turkeys survive. Nature has been busting Turkey roosts for millennia.

I would guess that turkeys, and other wildlife, would have evolved to shelter in a storm, and not to look directly at lightning. I would guess that they have not evolved to recognize a Speedlite with a Beamer, and so would not be so prepared when the light strikes them directly in the eyes. That said, I think there's a big difference between using fill flash at dawn/dusk and using full-power in the dark.

It's entirely possible that you're correct, that flashes don't hurt most/all wildlife. I prefer to err on the side of not doing harm until I hear of a consensus of wildlife biologists that it's so. It's possible to make all sorts of false inferences from simplified principles of evolution.

Well, Turkeys don't know ahead of time when a lightning flash is coming and when to look away. They don't when a flash with a beamer is either. But if lightning doesn't blind them, neither does a speedlight. Speedlights just are not that powerful. We don't need a biologist to tell us that.

Turkeys stay in the roost during storms unless they are scared from the roost by thunder.

The fact remains that speedlights don't bust Turkey roosts and that Turkeys aren't wiped out when thunder scares them down either... which is what takesome1 alleged.

Now, I wish somebody could scrounge up a video of Turkeys flying down from the roost and getting "wiped out" because a photographer flashed them.

By all means do what your conscience dictates. You are on the right track. I can't disagree with your opinion one bit.

I just don't buy takesome1's frightful warning that turkeys are wiped out when scared off the roost by thunder and that speedlite flash must be just as detrimental.

 

[Ozarker]

Hi Folks.
I don't know that firing a full flash in the dark won't cause a problem for turkeys or other wildlife, but as they would in general be trying to sleep I don't see the need. As for other circumstances I have found that if animals don't like what you are doing they do one of two things, fight or flee, the seagull that thought I was parked (in a public car park) too close to her nest, about 20' vertical separation and much more separation horizontally proceeded to dive at me, repeatedly! Conversely when my cat has had enough of being brushed she leaves, as do some of the small birds that I photograph using flash, the others just go about their business of eating the food I am paying them with!
I would not force them to endure flash if they were unable to leave for example caged.

Cheers, Graham.

8) Before long there will be bans on photographing anything. Buildings, bugs, birds, and even people.

While I have never photographed a Turkey with flash, much less in the middle of the night when they are sleeping, I have set up flash pointed at branches etc. where male songbirds frequent during the spring or whenever I observe it. They have never seemed annoyed, it doesn't interrupt their songs, and they keep returning to those spots flash after flash.

Turkeys, unlike songbirds, are very wary animals when on the ground. Ask any hunter who does his best to conceal himself. Trying to setup flash ahead of time or use a beamer to photograph them as though they were songbirds is a little pointless. Getting close enough would be extremely difficult.

Smart post Graham Not my photo.

 

[takesome1]

While I have never photographed a Turkey with flash

Ask any hunter

So you speak from experience.

Many responsible competent Turkey hunters would tell you to stay away from the Turkey's roost and to leave the birds alone when they are on the roost.

Most photographers would tell you that you need to use a flash when it is dusk and dawn.

Most responsible competent Turkey hunters would tell you that at those times you have to be to close to the roost move away.

So enlighten us from your lack of experience some more.

 

[Ozarker]

While I have never photographed a Turkey with flash

Ask any hunter

So you speak from experience.

Many responsible competent Turkey hunters would tell you to stay away from the Turkey's roost and to leave the birds alone when they are on the roost.

Most photographers would tell you that you need to use a flash when it is dusk and dawn.

Most responsible competent Turkey hunters would tell you that at those times you have to be to close to the roost move away.

So enlighten us from your lack of experience some more.

I should have warned you not to jump into the deep end if you can't swim. Let me throw you a life ring. :

Do you hunt Turkeys? You blast them don't you? With a shotgun? I don't hunt them because I don't like eating them. They don't taste good to me.

But here we are... you're worried about flash while you are wiping out Turkeys with your shotgun. Nice. Just go away. I've already told you we don't have to agree, yet you seem to demand compliance with your perspective. You aren't getting that from me. BTW: I'll bet your shotgun busts a roost much better than a piddly little speedlite. Your shotgun flashes too. Oh my!!!

 

[Don Haines]

Want to be a real conservationist? Buy a hunting license and quit sweating the small stuff.

At least when one buys a hunting license one actually contributes $$$ to conserving the animals and their habitat. Worrying about flash one way or the other does absolutely nothing.

I laughed when I read that comment.... mostly because it is true yet mostly misunderstood....

For example, Ducks Unlimited, a hunting organization, has done more in North America to protect waterfowl than anyone else..... after all, if they go extinct or onto the protected list, no more hunting....

I work on a site where we have a military firing range. The place is silly with deer and turkeys.... they wander around without fear. They walk across the range in the middle of an exercise, all firing stops until they cross, then once it is clear, the shooting resumes. If they can adapt to a hundred soldiers wailing away at targets, a flash is trivial....

 

[arthurbikemad]

It will pay animals to learn to avoid mankind haha! That way they may survive a little longer, if they have anywhere left to live in peace that is..

Same here, we also have a military firing range, a sanctuary for wildlife, only thing that ever needs continually telling that bullets kill, bullets are dangerous, don't walk on the range, red is for danger, flags are red and so on are dumb ass people!

I use a lot of OCF, never had any issues, other than sometimes the subject matter maybe a little off beat, if thats the case the flash just goes back in the bag..

 

[Eldar]

I am sure many animals and birds accepts a flash without too much annoyance, especially if it is fill flash at dusk or dawn. But I have seen deer, moose and fox react and clearly have problem with their vision afterwards, I have seen birds crash into windows and trees after a full front flash and I have seen an elephant totally pissed off after a flash (I am glad he did´t find me ...), so nobody can convince me that it does not affect them. So again, I don´t use it, because I don´t like using it (I´m lazy) and the high ISO performance of my 1DX/1DX-II is sufficient in most cases.

 

[Don Haines]

I am sure many animals and birds accepts a flash without too much annoyance, especially if it is fill flash at dusk or dawn. But I have seen deer, moose and fox react and clearly have problem with their vision afterwards, I have seen birds crash into windows and trees after a full front flash and I have seen an elephant totally pissed off after a flash (I am glad he did´t find me ...), so nobody can convince me that it does not affect them. So again, I don´t use it, because I don´t like using it (I´m lazy) and the high ISO performance of my 1DX/1DX-II is sufficient in most cases.

Not pissing off an elephant is a good thing! I understand that they can do a lot more damage than an annoyed chipmunk....

 

[takesome1]

While I have never photographed a Turkey with flash

Ask any hunter

So you speak from experience.

Many responsible competent Turkey hunters would tell you to stay away from the Turkey's roost and to leave the birds alone when they are on the roost.

Most photographers would tell you that you need to use a flash when it is dusk and dawn.

Most responsible competent Turkey hunters would tell you that at those times you have to be to close to the roost move away.

So enlighten us from your lack of experience some more.

I should have warned you not to jump into the deep end if you can't swim. Let me throw you a life ring. :

Do you hunt Turkeys? You blast them don't you? With a shotgun? I don't hunt them because I don't like eating them. They don't taste good to me.

But here we are... you're worried about flash while you are wiping out Turkeys with your shotgun. Nice. Just go away. I've already told you we don't have to agree, yet you seem to demand compliance with your perspective. You aren't getting that from me. BTW: I'll bet your shotgun busts a roost much better than a piddly little speedlite. Your shotgun flashes too. Oh my!!!

Still talking about things you have little or no knowledge of.
Keep going, occasionally you might hit on something that is correct.

 

[takesome1]

Want to be a real conservationist? Buy a hunting license and quit sweating the small stuff.

At least when one buys a hunting license one actually contributes $$$ to conserving the animals and their habitat. Worrying about flash one way or the other does absolutely nothing.

I laughed when I read that comment.... mostly because it is true yet mostly misunderstood....

For example, Ducks Unlimited, a hunting organization, has done more in North America to protect waterfowl than anyone else..... after all, if they go extinct or onto the protected list, no more hunting....

I work on a site where we have a military firing range. The place is silly with deer and turkeys.... they wander around without fear. They walk across the range in the middle of an exercise, all firing stops until they cross, then once it is clear, the shooting resumes. If they can adapt to a hundred soldiers wailing away at targets, a flash is trivial....

The National Wild Turkey Federation would be a better example in this situation.
http://www.nwtf.org/

Many military bases have wildlife biologist on staff, or they work with state or local dept of wildlife staff.
There are several bases in my state that have full time staff that manage the wildlife. So there is a reason they stop firing when the deer and turkey cross the firing range.

 

[eml58]

I know very little about Turkeys.

But I have used Flash quite a bit on wildlife both in the daytime and evening here in Africa.

Right now I'm in Mala Mala South Africa, last night I was using Flash on a Leopard that goes by the name of "The Bicycle Crossing Male", this is a magnificent animal, I first came across this Leopard 12 years ago when it was only a youngster, I'de say now at the age of 14 years old it's been photographed and Flashed more than Brad Pit or Angelina Jollie and it hasn't seemed to worry this guy.

I don't though use Flash on Elephants, it's a self preservation thing.

 

[Ozarker]

While I have never photographed a Turkey with flash

Ask any hunter

So you speak from experience.

Many responsible competent Turkey hunters would tell you to stay away from the Turkey's roost and to leave the birds alone when they are on the roost.

Most photographers would tell you that you need to use a flash when it is dusk and dawn.

Most responsible competent Turkey hunters would tell you that at those times you have to be to close to the roost move away.

So enlighten us from your lack of experience some more.

I should have warned you not to jump into the deep end if you can't swim. Let me throw you a life ring. :

Do you hunt Turkeys? You blast them don't you? With a shotgun? I don't hunt them because I don't like eating them. They don't taste good to me.

But here we are... you're worried about flash while you are wiping out Turkeys with your shotgun. Nice. Just go away. I've already told you we don't have to agree, yet you seem to demand compliance with your perspective. You aren't getting that from me. BTW: I'll bet your shotgun busts a roost much better than a piddly little speedlite. Your shotgun flashes too. Oh my!!!

Still talking about things you have little or no knowledge of.
Keep going, occasionally you might hit on something that is correct.

Hey man, I'm not the one who said Turkeys are "wiped out" when the roost gets busted. You are. *sigh*

I'm also not the one killing them, although I'd be happy to do so if I liked eating them.

There, I got the last word.

 

[Ozarker]

Want to be a real conservationist? Buy a hunting license and quit sweating the small stuff.

At least when one buys a hunting license one actually contributes $$$ to conserving the animals and their habitat. Worrying about flash one way or the other does absolutely nothing.

I laughed when I read that comment.... mostly because it is true yet mostly misunderstood....

For example, Ducks Unlimited, a hunting organization, has done more in North America to protect waterfowl than anyone else..... after all, if they go extinct or onto the protected list, no more hunting....

I work on a site where we have a military firing range. The place is silly with deer and turkeys.... they wander around without fear. They walk across the range in the middle of an exercise, all firing stops until they cross, then once it is clear, the shooting resumes. If they can adapt to a hundred soldiers wailing away at targets, a flash is trivial....

So there is a reason they stop firing when the deer and turkey cross the firing range.

Yeah, because they've been ordered beforehand not to shoot the wildlife.

 

[Orangutan]

Want to be a real conservationist? Buy a hunting license and quit sweating the small stuff.

At least when one buys a hunting license one actually contributes $$$ to conserving the animals and their habitat. Worrying about flash one way or the other does absolutely nothing.

For example, Ducks Unlimited, a hunting organization, has done more in North America to protect waterfowl than anyone else..... after all, if they go extinct or onto the protected list, no more hunting....

Of course, this great conservation work by hunters began to occur AFTER hunters had spent over a century doing their damned best to wipe out game species, e.g. bison, passenger pigeon, etc. While there are many exceptions, the hunting community as a whole seems to have 20-20 hindsight: "oops, we've almost wiped out X, we'd better do something urgently!!" OK, that's great, but how about a little foresight instead? I believe the biggest threats to wildlife diversity are loss of habitat, followed by climate change. Hunting regulations are finally sane, but there are people who ignore them routinely in areas that are not well patrolled. That notion that hunters are the best conservationists is nonsense: the best conservation work is done before the damage is heavy.

I work on a site where we have a military firing range. The place is silly with deer and turkeys.... they wander around without fear. They walk across the range in the middle of an exercise, all firing stops until they cross, then once it is clear, the shooting resumes. If they can adapt to a hundred soldiers wailing away at targets, a flash is trivial....

I'm surprised to see you write this, Don, you are usually more thoughtful. You CANNOT extrapolate from a few species in one area to a general rule. Each species responds differently, and some are able to adapt to situations that they should find threatening -- how many of us get deer in our back yards? A "smart" deer wouldn't do that, right? Some populations of some species have adapted to humans; this does not extrapolate.

You may find a few wildlife biologist who support a particular opinion, but you need to look for the consensus of the the experts on a particular species.

 

[takesome1]

Want to be a real conservationist? Buy a hunting license and quit sweating the small stuff.

At least when one buys a hunting license one actually contributes $$$ to conserving the animals and their habitat. Worrying about flash one way or the other does absolutely nothing.

I laughed when I read that comment.... mostly because it is true yet mostly misunderstood....

For example, Ducks Unlimited, a hunting organization, has done more in North America to protect waterfowl than anyone else..... after all, if they go extinct or onto the protected list, no more hunting....

I work on a site where we have a military firing range. The place is silly with deer and turkeys.... they wander around without fear. They walk across the range in the middle of an exercise, all firing stops until they cross, then once it is clear, the shooting resumes. If they can adapt to a hundred soldiers wailing away at targets, a flash is trivial....

So there is a reason they stop firing when the deer and turkey cross the firing range.

Yeah, because they've been ordered beforehand not to shoot the wildlife.

Thanks Captain Obvious for figuring that one out.

 

[NancyP]

The best conservation work with hunted species involves strategically located landowners. Many farmers like to hunt, and if the DOC comes to them with a proposal to plant favorable plant species in a few drainage ditches or along fence lines or access roads, some farmers invite the DOC to do their bit. My state has a working program to bring bobwhite quail back.

 

[Orangutan]

The best conservation work with hunted species involves strategically located landowners. Many farmers like to hunt, and if the DOC comes to them with a proposal to plant favorable plant species in a few drainage ditches or along fence lines or access roads, some farmers invite the DOC to do their bit. My state has a working program to bring bobwhite quail back.

Yes, for hunted species there has been good work with some landowners. The more general question of proper treatment of wildlife needs to acknowledge that different species (and populations) respond differently to human disturbance, so we should not be quick to assume our actions are without consequences.

 

[Valvebounce]

Hi Orangutan.
This statement got me thinking whether flash photography has anywhere near the implications that the intermittent feeders have. Those people who put up feeders and food and encourage an increase in the population just to forget to feed them when times get hard. I'm not suggesting that 2 wrongs make a right, but I'm sure there are worse things to endure than a camera flash.
Also we have just had a very short thunderstorm and I caught a flash full on, it left me dazzled, more than I have ever been with a camera flash, just saying.

Cheers, Graham.

different species (and populations) respond differently to human disturbance, so we should not be quick to assume our actions are without consequences.

 

[Ozarker]

Want to be a real conservationist? Buy a hunting license and quit sweating the small stuff.

At least when one buys a hunting license one actually contributes $$$ to conserving the animals and their habitat. Worrying about flash one way or the other does absolutely nothing.

I laughed when I read that comment.... mostly because it is true yet mostly misunderstood....

For example, Ducks Unlimited, a hunting organization, has done more in North America to protect waterfowl than anyone else..... after all, if they go extinct or onto the protected list, no more hunting....

I work on a site where we have a military firing range. The place is silly with deer and turkeys.... they wander around without fear. They walk across the range in the middle of an exercise, all firing stops until they cross, then once it is clear, the shooting resumes. If they can adapt to a hundred soldiers wailing away at targets, a flash is trivial....

So there is a reason they stop firing when the deer and turkey cross the firing range.

Yeah, because they've been ordered beforehand not to shoot the wildlife.

Thanks Captain Obvious for figuring that one out.

Last word.

 

[Don Haines]

Want to be a real conservationist? Buy a hunting license and quit sweating the small stuff.

At least when one buys a hunting license one actually contributes $$$ to conserving the animals and their habitat. Worrying about flash one way or the other does absolutely nothing.

I laughed when I read that comment.... mostly because it is true yet mostly misunderstood....

For example, Ducks Unlimited, a hunting organization, has done more in North America to protect waterfowl than anyone else..... after all, if they go extinct or onto the protected list, no more hunting....

I work on a site where we have a military firing range. The place is silly with deer and turkeys.... they wander around without fear. They walk across the range in the middle of an exercise, all firing stops until they cross, then once it is clear, the shooting resumes. If they can adapt to a hundred soldiers wailing away at targets, a flash is trivial....

So there is a reason they stop firing when the deer and turkey cross the firing range.

Yeah, because they've been ordered beforehand not to shoot the wildlife.

The soldiers are on the range to show that they are competent with the weaponry..... to hit anything other than the target is to demonstrated that you are incompetent and can not be trusted with a weapon...... a career limiting move in the military.....