Flip out displays -- why the resentment?

[AvTvM]

@JerryBruck: excellent "sample" pics ... really like them ... a lot!

I would prefer a flip screen on my camera too, even though I went from 40D to 7D rather than 60D because of better 7D AF + features and weather sealing. I valued those higher than the flip screen. I never do video, only still photography. I would find a flip screen especially useful for candid/street pics.

But I also bought a Powershot S95 rather than a Powershot G - because I valued compact size even higher than a flip screen ...

 

[JerryBruck]

@AvTvM: Thanks a lot! If only I had a "karma" button I'd be banging on it now.

 

[briansquibb]

Live View AF is useless that is why we dont use them

 

[7enderbender]

It would be another step into a direction that I personally don't like. More plastic, more moving parts, more "features" that have nothing to do with photography. It would be another reminder that what I really want is a digital version of the F-1. And that I can't afford Leica gear. I don't do video (at least not with my DSLR) and I don't use live-view. I'd rather have no screen at all instead of a swivel screen.

 

[eos650]

I love the LCD on my 60D. Most of the time it's flipped against the back, facing outward and is used to review shots or settings. I don't normally take pictures in live view, but when I need to get that quick off angle shot it takes me seconds to flip it out, enter live view and make the shot.

I've been shooting a lot of basketball (tis the season) and like to throw in some low, wide angle shots from the foul line. The vari-angle LCD has been extremely handy. I do have a right angle finder, but never take it with me. The right angle finder means an extra item in my bag. It takes me close to a minute to get it out and put it on and then I still have to get down on the ground. By the time I've done all this, I've missed the shot. I then have to take it off, so I can resume shooting normally.

Like it or not, the LCD was one of the reasons that I didn't spring for the difference and buy the 7D.

 

[RC]

Interesting topic and responses. I don't resent or criticize flip out/swivel displays however, I'm not really interested in them. Although there are some good comments for practical uses, I don't ever recall "I wish I had a swivel screen." I'm OK for laying in the dirt trying to get the low perspective shot. Maybe if I had it, I'd discover some good uses.

Aside from briefly checking focus for landscapes/moon shots with Live View, I never use it, I don't like it, I want to look through the view finder, I feel I can compose much better and more naturally. Would I give up LV? No, I want it, but just as a tool for what I mentioned. As for video on my 7D, I forget it exists.

I was thinking about all the hours I've spent behind a video camera (nothing fancy, just family stuff), and I almost never used the swivel screen. Probably less than 1%.

On the flip side (pun not intended) for point-and-shoot cameras, I almost never used the viewfinder on my S80--probably because it was not a real FOV. Now with my new S100 that doesn't even have a viewfinder, I care less. I'm happy with that big bright 3" screen.

It is what it is, probably some old school, and probably just old habits.

 

[Maui5150]

I think the swivel screen is great for taking shots where the camera is at an awkward angle...

As an example, for the chester type pervs, with a swivel screen, you can bend down to tie your shoe with the camera in hand and shoot up a skirt and make sure you not only captured the image, but have the proper exposure...

Some may argue that the swivel screen is for sports or crowds and when the camera is being held above your head... but really... The example above was the clear intended purpose...

 

[kentandersen]

I really don't see the problem either.

I was also considering between 7D and 60D, and ended up with 60D becouse of the screen. Afther 30 000 klicks, I have only thought a handful of time that a bether AF or more focuspoint would have been great. But the flip out screen has been used in 10% of my shots, and in all videos. A self portrait, low angle, high angle, macro where I don't want to scare the creature, shooting children unoticed... there is several ocations where this feature has helped me.

What I appreciate alot, is that I can turn the screen with the glas pointing towards the camera. That makes it even bether protected than with the normal screen.

A 5d with 7D AF and a flip out screen would be the perfect camera for me.

 

[Steb]

I upgraded from 550D to 60D and my main concern was the articulating screen. If I had the choice I would have bought it with a fixed one. Now after about a year with that camera I consider it a great improvement and I would like to have it on my next camera too. I have not used it that often but from time to time it makes shots much easier or even possible. I regulary make use of the possibility to flip the screen inside for protection.

 

[EYEONE]

I don't really resent them, rather I just don't really care. Mainly, I am considered about the physical construction a little bit. There is also the issue of having to bypass the AF system to use it.

But what it boils down to is that there is about 300 other issues I'd rather see addressed in my next camera before I start thinking seriously about flippy screens.

Only rarely, very very rarely, have I been shooting and thought: Dang, I need a flip screen...

 

[Meh]

Live View AF is useless that is why we dont use them

Add to Neuro's comment above: Real photographers don't use Live View AF

 

[JerryBruck]

@Eye-Broccoli, @dr croubie, @Harley, @Narcolepsy, @Canon-F-1, @7enderbender:
Perhaps some traditionalists don't realize that the Vari-angle screen can remain flush against the body without ever even once being swung out. Canon has recessed it into the camera's back, surrounded by a slightly raised, rounded frame. There's no way I can think of, that it can be accidentally dislodged from this position, even rolling round loose in a sack: only a somewhat forceful action of fingertip/nail can pry it open. To this extent it doesn't resemble the clam-shell design of many small camcorders. In appearance it's very little different from Canon's fixed-screen models. It is more vulnerable once swung out, obviously and of course. One must take care. The hinge seems to be very solid.

@WFT: Those vari-shooters are only blocking your view because the fixed-screeners in front of them don't dare stop and sit down, shooting blind as they are.

 

[sb]

Live View AF is useless that is why we dont use them

Add to Neuro's comment above: Real photographers don't use Live View AF

Live View AF is useless that is why we dont use them

Add to Neuro's comment above: Real photographers don't use Live View AF

Yup - basically buyers of pro bodies don't want to see consumer features in it - as simple as that. The advocates don't quite understand because it seems like "it doesn't hurt to have it there", however for me, it's kind of like getting a race car and realizing that it comes with "parking assist", "backup cam", "facebook connectivity" and automatic transmission

 

[dstppy]

I'll throw in my greatly-overpriced two cents:
I prefer the articulating screen at this point because there are no greasy nose-prints on my screen from shooting I'm a guy, I'm not supposed to have to exfoliate . . . apply soap, scrub, rinse I'm done.

I'm going with +1 on pretension for a lot of it. I consider it a boon to be able to protect the screen and leave on auto-preview without having to use it . . . to that ends, I miss the non-automatic pop-up flash of my SX10 IS. Mechanical way of togging a feature on/off.

While you're bringing that up, you might as well talk about how 'flimsy' the 60D is too ;D Yeah, that plastic body was really bugging me . . . now that I've got a 5DmkII, I don't have to worry about being attacked and not being able to club someone ???

 

[7enderbender]

@Eye-Broccoli, @dr croubie, @Harley, @Narcolepsy, @Canon-F-1, @7enderbender:
Perhaps some traditionalists don't realize that the Vari-angle screen can remain flush against the body without ever even once being swung out. Canon has recessed it into the camera's back, surrounded by a slightly raised, rounded frame. There's no way I can think of, that it can be accidentally dislodged from this position, even rolling round loose in a sack: only a somewhat forceful action of fingertip/nail can pry it open. To this extent it doesn't resemble the clam-shell design of many small camcorders. In appearance it's very little different from Canon's fixed-screen models. It is more vulnerable once swung out, obviously and of course. One must take care. The hinge seems to be very solid.

@WFT: Those vari-shooters are only blocking your view because the fixed-screeners in front of them don't dare stop and sit down, shooting blind as they are.

Admittedly, this is a good argument. But forgive me, as a traditionalist (which I am on a lot of things, not all) I don't really want to put up with a feature just because it can be done and because it may be useful to a minority. Is a fixed screen the be-all-end-all? No, of course not. But it's another thing that takes away from the experience of owning a rock-solid camera which to me is part of the fun and justification of shelling out thousands of dollars for camera gear (or similar items). Neither makes me a better photographer (cyclist, guitar player, golfer, skier, you name it...). But to me there is something to be said about solid workman ship that makes the experience of going out and shooting half-way decent photographs more enjoyable. A BMW, Audi or Lexus doesn't make me a better driver or even gets me any faster to work than a Corolla (or the Commuter Rail...) - but hell, I do like stick shifts and good acceleration when I drive.

But even in that somewhat lame comparison I could now (the traditionalist that I am) complain that the Germans and Japanese in the last few decades started to put way too much useless stuff into their vehicles. So even with money to burn I'd probably still take the train and rental cars for the necessary stuff and otherwise have a nice classic sports car in the garage.

So in as much as I "get" the fully utilitarian approach with turning everything into the equivalent of a Swiss Army knife (I do like Swiss Army knives though) I'm missing the emotional component. That's why people like me whine when they realize that their $1000+ new lens is made from plastic and is build in way that makes it unlikely that my kids will enjoy them later on like I still use some of my dad's old lenses. And it's a bit like the difference between a nice mechanical watch and a Chinese quartz movement. The latter will be more precise.

Maybe I'm interpreting too much into a silly old screen here but it's another one of those obvious changes that significantly change the experience independent of results.

 

[Lyra Video Productions]

Anyone who says you can't be a real photographer AND use a swivel screen (at all) is just being a luddite as far as I can tell (even if you're not being entirely serious ). And if you're making the argument that a swivel screen is more prone to break then just don't use it. Keep it in one position against the body and don't worry about swiveling.

Here's the thing--I own a 60D for photography and video, but I (almost) never use the swivel screen. Honestly, fragility of the screen was a concern when I decided to buy the 60D, but it just seems to be a non-issue.

Though I usually don't use it, there have been times when the swivel screen has been a huge help. I'll find myself down on the dirt getting a low angle shot (out of habit) when suddenly I realize I don't have to be. Sure, live view is horrible for most photography situations but it works fine for some things (and video, of course).

Is a top-of-the-line camera a place for a swivel screen? I don't know--there is definitely a stigma that's hard to shake--even though I've found mine useful in the past. But at the very least don't knock it till you try it in real shooting situations, and don't look down on people who find it useful.

 

[Orangutan]

(OT Protecting the screen) Re: Flip out displays -- why the resentment?

Since we're on the topic of the 60D flip-screen, has anyone used "InvisibleShield" on their flip screen? Does it interfere with turning the screen face-in? I've been thinking of doing this on mine.

 

[Canon-F1]

@Eye-Broccoli, @dr croubie, @Harley, @Narcolepsy, @Canon-F-1, @7enderbender:
Perhaps some traditionalists don't realize that the Vari-angle screen can remain flush against the body without ever even once being swung out.

dosn´t change a thing that i have 4 cameras with a flip screen that are defect because of the LCD.

 

[Meh]

Anyone who says you can't be a real photographer AND use a swivel screen (at all) is just being a luddite as far as I can tell (even if you're not being entirely serious ). And if you're making the argument that a swivel screen is more prone to break then just don't use it. Keep it in one position against the body and don't worry about swiveling.

Of course you can't be a real photographer and use a swivel screen and I'm being entirely serious just ask @briansquibb who noted that Live View AF is useless (it isn't useless by the way). Oh and you when you said...

Sure, live view is horrible for most photography situations but it works fine for some things (and video, of course).

What do you mean by "horrible" and what do you mean by "most"? That's the trouble with making such bold statements, they just tend to not really be the case. Did you just look down on those who find it useful and use it for a lot of photography situations?

 

[neuroanatomist]

...basically buyers of pro bodies don't want to see consumer features in it - as simple as that. ... it's kind of like getting a race car and realizing that it comes with ... "facebook connectivity"

So THAT'S why they put a GigE port on the 1D X - faster Facebook uploads. I knew there had to be a good reason...