Fps rates 12/20

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
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The maximum number of fps is “always” Including AF/AE, it’s not just a theoretic number needing locked AF if it’s not specified. I have no doubt the 1dx3 does 16 fps with full AF/AE, the shutter speed fast enough is a given.
Those numbers are always caveated on aperture used, it takes more time to stop down than shoot wide open so frame rate drops, and also focus priority, if you set the camera to prioritize focus priority it will not give you the fps advertised, if you use the fps advertised (assuming you are also using a wide open aperture) then you will not get as many critically sharp images.
 

Viggo

EOS 5D SR
Dec 13, 2010
4,430
1,076
Those numbers are always caveated on aperture used, it takes more time to stop down than shoot wide open so frame rate drops, and also focus priority, if you set the camera to prioritize focus priority it will not give you the fps advertised, if you use the fps advertised (assuming you are also using a wide open aperture) then you will not get as many critically sharp images.
Indeed, and is also why I wrote that settings like tracking priority will slow it down. Not always the case with less focused shot with release priority though. With the R it makes no difference and I’ve been exclusively using release priority.
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
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Indeed, and is also why I wrote that settings like tracking priority will slow it down. Not always the case with less focused shot with release priority though. With the R it makes no difference and I’ve been exclusively using release priority.
Focus priority aside, aperture used will impact maximum fps.
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
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Does anyone know if there are disadvantages to using the electronic shutter? Codebunny mentioned there might be some, and I assume there are--otherwise, why bother with the mechanical shutter?
Ha, I was shooting a 1DX MkII tonight alongside another guy with an EOS R, we both shot in 'silent' mode and he was very happy because he was truly silent, it was a symphony orchestra so being silent enabled easier shot timing. Well he was really happy until he started looking at some of his shots, he was getting terrible banding due to light flicker, it looked like the shots had been taken through blinds! Mine were all perfect, even when I shot in Live View, so yes electronic shutters throw up their own issues.
 

Joules

EOS 7D MK II
Jul 16, 2017
619
577
Hamburg, Germany
I am still confused. :-(
About what precisely? If you clarify what is giving you a hard time, maybe it can be explained in a better way.

Did you watch the video I linked? I personally find that really helpful, since it has the images to demonstrate instead of the pure text we can offer here.
 

Bennymiata

EOS 6D MK II
In electronic shutter mode (aka silent shooting), the pixels aren't all read together but rather are read from left to right and top to bottom.
While this " read" is not instantaneous, it is pretty fast, but when taking photos of moving subjects (or the camera moves) the position of the moving subject will not be the same when the first pixel is read until the last pixel will be read, making the image look skewed.
This is also called jello.
Hope that answers your question as to why electronic shutters are not generally as good as mechanical shutters.

However, global shutters are starting to arrive, and they read each pixel at the same time eliminating jello.
It'll still be a few years before we see global shutters featuring in our cameras though, but they will come eventually.
 

Pape

EOS 7D MK II
Dec 31, 2018
510
315
In electronic shutter mode (aka silent shooting), the pixels aren't all read together but rather are read from left to right and top to bottom.
While this " read" is not instantaneous, it is pretty fast, but when taking photos of moving subjects (or the camera moves) the position of the moving subject will not be the same when the first pixel is read until the last pixel will be read, making the image look skewed.
This is also called jello.
Hope that answers your question as to why electronic shutters are not generally as good as mechanical shutters.

However, global shutters are starting to arrive, and they read each pixel at the same time eliminating jello.
It'll still be a few years before we see global shutters featuring in our cameras though, but they will come eventually.
global shutter or 100x faster read out speed sensor or something completely different :)
 

SteveC

M6 mk II
Sep 3, 2019
570
401
Hope that answers your question as to why electronic shutters are not generally as good as mechanical shutters.
I thought I just saw a video a couple of days ago showing very high exposure speeds basically have the top shutter blade moving down just behind the lower one...in other words the mechanical shutter has a "scan" going on too. (the video may even have been linked to from this thread, I don't know.)

The only way to solve it, truly, is with a simultaneous read of all pixels.
 

Joules

EOS 7D MK II
Jul 16, 2017
619
577
Hamburg, Germany
I thought I just saw a video a couple of days ago showing very high exposure speeds basically have the top shutter blade moving down just behind the lower one...in other words the mechanical shutter has a "scan" going on too. (the video may even have been linked to from this thread, I don't know.)

The only way to solve it, truly, is with a simultaneous read of all pixels.
Yes, I linked the video here. Mechanical shutters are also rolling shutters. But they move faster than the electronic read out, so the artefact is much less pronounced.
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
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As a follow on to my earlier comment. Here is one of the shots from the R showing banding using the electronic shutter, this only happened in some shots under some lighting, not all of them. That's me shooting through a back stage doorway. EXIF below.

Bob-Maret-(23-of-45).jpg


Screen Shot 2020-02-16 at 21.10.17.png
 
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Ian_of_glos

EOS RP
Jun 12, 2012
259
48
England
The EOS is a poor comparison for AF speed. It uses the old hardware from the 5D IV.

The newer generation of sensors found in the 1DX III, M6 II and 90D show much greater speeds. The M6 II does AF servo at 14 FPS 32 MP and 30 FPS 18 MP. Granted, that is slightly less throughput than 12 FPS 44 MP but I can't imagine that the M6 II presents the pinnacle of what Canon can pull off. Its just about 1K and even has the older processor.
The point I was trying to make was that sometimes the quoted, headline speed is not really of much use. I cannot see much point in using a fast burst rate if you are not also using AI Servo to ensure that each shot is properly focussed. The EOS R was simply an example of a camera where this is the case.
 

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,442
1,602
Alberta, Canada
The point I was trying to make was that sometimes the quoted, headline speed is not really of much use. I cannot see much point in using a fast burst rate if you are not also using AI Servo to ensure that each shot is properly focussed. The EOS R was simply an example of a camera where this is the case.
A valid point but one that fails to take into account luck. Those who have played hockey know that you still shoot even when you can't see the net. A very fast burst, pre-focused sometimes gives a spectacular keeper. I've proven this theory but along with that approach comes a lot of tedious culling. It all depends whether one is willing to accept the negatives for a small positive. IMHO. BTW high resolution video can be used similarly.

Jack
 

Ian_of_glos

EOS RP
Jun 12, 2012
259
48
England
A valid point but one that fails to take into account luck. Those who have played hockey know that you still shoot even when you can't see the net. A very fast burst, pre-focused sometimes gives a spectacular keeper. I've proven this theory but along with that approach comes a lot of tedious culling. It all depends whether one is willing to accept the negatives for a small positive. IMHO. BTW high resolution video can be used similarly.

Jack
Thank you. Hockey is not a sport that I have ever photographed but it is interesting that there are examples of sports where it is not necessary to refocus before each shot. The sport I shoot most often is rugby union and the players are constantly moving around in all directions so I would be lost without AI servo.
 

Jack Douglas

CR for the Humour
Apr 10, 2013
6,442
1,602
Alberta, Canada
Thank you. Hockey is not a sport that I have ever photographed but it is interesting that there are examples of sports where it is not necessary to refocus before each shot. The sport I shoot most often is rugby union and the players are constantly moving around in all directions so I would be lost without AI servo.
:giggle: I used hockey as the example of getting a goal (shooting is required or you can't score) not shooting with the camera, so I had a good chuckle. I don't shoot sports so far, almost always it's little birdies, but not golf.;) Maybe someone shooting hockey does pre-focus on the net.

Jack
 

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
6,371
4,579
:giggle: I used hockey as the example of getting a goal (shooting is required or you can't score) not shooting with the camera, so I had a good chuckle. I don't shoot sports so far, almost always it's little birdies, but not golf.;) Maybe someone shooting hockey does pre-focus on the net.

Jack
From now on, you will be known as Slap Shot Jack, the Paul Newman of CR.
 
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