FUJIFILM'S latest, X-T1 ?

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Aglet

Aglet

Feb 26, 2012
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Money did the talking for me this time, X-e1 with the kit zoom for only $800 is a bit easier for testing than the $1300 xe2 equivalent kit. the difference will get spent on a 35mm f/1.4 lens and maybe an extra battery.

I tried both cameras with the same lenses at my local dealer in bright and dim light. The xe2 was slightly quicker to AF in low light and it gained-up the EVF much better but they both seemed to quit working at about the same level of low light and low contrast - hard to tell when in a hurry but I think the xe1 will suffice for most of my slow-paced shooting. Expanding the AF frame size helped in low light, FWIW.
From my reading it seems the AF pixels in the xe2 provide some AF speed advantage in good light?... Won't matter to me, I have an X-T1 on the way for better performance, if it even offers much of an improvement over the xe2. It's seems to claim better frame rates while tracking a moving subject at least.
I have enough DSLRs that stand a better chance of catching things that move using their more sophisticated AF systems but I have nothing that's truly fast any more. 7D used to hold that position but I sold it.
 
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M

moreorless

Jun 18, 2011
778
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Sella174 said:
Hey, Nikon, look ... both the shutter and the ISO dials have "A" points.

Seriously, this camera might be my point of exit regarding Canon ... all the X system still needs is a weather-sealed, internal focusing 50-200mm f/4 lens (OIS optional).
Click to expand...

To me the really missed opportunity with both of these cameras is to allow the top dials to be used for auto ISO. I thought on release that the most obvious firmware update for the Df would be a mode where the ISO and shutter speed dials would be used to set auto ISO parameters(max ISO and minimum shutter speed), that would offer a genuine advantage over the current setup. On the Fuji though even that wouldn't be an option as you have the auto mode setting on the ISO dial and no alternative shutter speed readout.

The problem with the X-T1 for me is that it seems to be pulling in two directions. It seems to be viewed as Fuji's "action" camera but to me the controls seem even less suited for that than the Df which is obviously not aimed at sports/wildlife etc use. Unlike the Nikon theres no meter readout from above for starters so no way to keep an eye on your shutter speed unless you give up control of ISO and/or aperture. From the sound of it you can't shift shutter speed to a standard control wheel and I'm guessing a top dial won't be nearly as easy to use at eye level. Also ISO dial being on the top left is far from ideal for action given the longer lenses and Fuji's aperture control being on the lens. With the Df I can at least imagine having my left hand on the left had side of the body to operate the ISO/EC dials, with the Fuji your hand needs to be on the lens.
 
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Sella174

Sella174

So there!
Mar 19, 2013
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moreorless said:
The problem with the X-T1 for me is that ... unlike the Nikon theres no meter readout from above for starters so no way to keep an eye on your shutter speed unless you give up control of ISO and/or aperture. From the sound of it you can't shift shutter speed to a standard control wheel and I'm guessing a top dial won't be nearly as easy to use at eye level. Also ISO dial being on the top left is far from ideal for action given the longer lenses and Fuji's aperture control being on the lens. With the Df I can at least imagine having my left hand on the left had side of the body to operate the ISO/EC dials, with the Fuji your hand needs to be on the lens.
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Although I understand your gripe, I cannot see the point. In my experience, when you're manually manipulating all three point of the triangle (ISO, Av & Tv) at the same time, you're also intentionally by-passing the in-camera lightmetering and either winging it or using a more sophisticated handheld meter. Either and whatever, because when this happens, you're also setting up the camera in-hand and not adjusting everything through the viewfinder.
 
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moreorless

Jun 18, 2011
778
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Sella174 said:
moreorless said:
The problem with the X-T1 for me is that ... unlike the Nikon theres no meter readout from above for starters so no way to keep an eye on your shutter speed unless you give up control of ISO and/or aperture. From the sound of it you can't shift shutter speed to a standard control wheel and I'm guessing a top dial won't be nearly as easy to use at eye level. Also ISO dial being on the top left is far from ideal for action given the longer lenses and Fuji's aperture control being on the lens. With the Df I can at least imagine having my left hand on the left had side of the body to operate the ISO/EC dials, with the Fuji your hand needs to be on the lens.
Click to expand...

Although I understand your gripe, I cannot see the point. In my experience, when you're manually manipulating all three point of the triangle (ISO, Av & Tv) at the same time, you're also intentionally by-passing the in-camera lightmetering and either winging it or using a more sophisticated handheld meter. Either and whatever, because when this happens, you're also setting up the camera in-hand and not adjusting everything through the viewfinder.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't say so, its perfectly possible to use the in camera lightmeter when shooting in manual and I think its a fault in both of these camera's that you can't see its readout from above when doing so. At least with the Df though you can see its readout when your shooting in Av mode via the shutter speed in the LCD.

When adjusting setting with the camera at eye level though the X-T1 just seems like it would be less ergonomic for me, especially given its intended use. You need to reach up to the top plate to set shutter speed then use the front wheel to fine tune, you need to use your left hand to change ISO ontop of the camera but also to change aperture on the lens thus shifting back and forth.

So shooting fully manual or Tv the Df would be easier to handle at eye level, shooting Av it would be easier to handle both at eye level and offer meter readout from above.

Again for me what I really think Nikon need to do is improve the Df auto ISO mode so the settings can be inputted with the top dials.
 
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Aglet

Aglet

Feb 26, 2012
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I'm looking forward to playing with the Xt1's manual controls and seeing how they interact with the 2 standard electronic control wheels and what sort of customizing and functional crossovers may be available.
Many of Fuji's lenses have aperture rings that also sport an "A" so you can set it there and use one of the electronic control wheels to manage the aperture with your right hand without lowering the camera or doing any fancy hand contortions.
I'd like a toggling lock button for the ISO wheel; tho with the Fuji, you can pretty much leave ISO in auto and let it take care of it according to your auto-iso preference settings.
There are still some compromises, for sure, but this is looking like a very fun and flexible camera to use in a variety of scenarios.
 
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Aglet

Aglet

Feb 26, 2012
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K

Kumakun

Mar 5, 2012
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I've been with Canon since I started (400D-->7D--5DIII). I picked up the Fuji XT-1, and I really like it. I still love my 5DIII and I am not "jumping ship" on Canon; just adding a new member to the team. As to a couple of the issues I noticed people talking about above regarding the ergonomics... I agree that it isn't as easy to use as the 5DIII (although part of that is adjusting to a new camera and system), but I found the trade-offs to offset the "negatives." A few of my general "pros" and "cons" (bad news first):

"Negatives":
-Changing the AF points--I can do this looking through the viewfinder, but the control pad is a bit more finicky than the 5DIII joystick. Also, the small size of the camera means my thumb is kind of sandwiched between my face and the camera when I try to move them around.

-All the rings and dials present lots of opportunities for unintentionally knocking something and changing the settings. In particular, I have found the aperture ring, the exposure comp dial, and the ISO dial to be vulnerable to this. On the positive side, the small size of the camera means it's pretty easy to change quickly without taking my eye away form the camera and the viewfinder kind of doubles as a "heads up display" so it's very easy to reset them. The location of these controls doesn't present the same kind of "facial interference" problems that the AF points do.

-The battery life on the XT-1 sucks. A lot of the reviews say it's good for 350 shots, but I haven't gotten that many out of it. I bought a second battery the day after I got the camera and may pick up a third. For me, having a couple extra batteries solves the problem. But for people who will be unable to frequently recharge batteries, power management might be an issue. (I'm thinking here of people who are going to be backpacking for several days; for someone out shooting for a day around a city an extra battery should be fine).

-New system for me, so obviously I don't have the variety of lenses for the Fuji that I do for the Canon

-The Fuji software is... disappointingly hard to use and non-intuitive

On the plus side:

-I'm very happy with the IQ from the XT-1. (I won't say anything about DR or ISO tests because other people have done those / will do those and frankly I don't really care. I'm plenty happy with the photographs from this camera (and I'm also plenty happy with the IQ from my 5DIII...)

-the XT-1 is a LOT easier to carry around than the 5DIII. The ergonomic issues mentioned above are more than offset for me by the size and weight advantage in many situations.

-The AF and continuous AF is really good. (Perhaps not as snappy as the 5DIII in very low light situations, but it still works... I'd held off of the earlier Fuji's (particularly the XE-2) because the AF seemed very slow to me). One caveat, I guess--I live in Japan and shoot a lot of matsuri's (festivals and folk dances), often at night. I haven't had the chance to test the continuous AF in those situations yet

-The EVF is as good as you have read; as I mentioned above, there is so much information available that I rarely need to access the Q button (I make most of my changes from the viewfinder).

-A couple new features for me are nice (certainly not exclusive to Fuji--many cameras from Canon and other companies also have them). I have never used a tilt-screen before, which makes shooting low angle a lot more comfortable. Also, the wifi link with my iPhone is pretty cool both as an always-with-me remote and as a way of sharing photos immediately.

As I said at the beginning, I still love my 5DIII and have no plans to "jump systems." But I am going to "split time" between the Canon and the Fuji--especially for a lot of my travel stuff (the Fuji is so much lighter and more convenient for traveling).

Not a technical review (lots of those out there from more knowledgeable sources), but for what it's worth this has been my experience with the XT-1.
 
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D

drjlo

Mar 27, 2012
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Kumakun said:
As I said at the beginning, I still love my 5DIII and have no plans to "jump systems." But I am going to "split time" between the Canon and the Fuji--especially for a lot of my travel stuff (the Fuji is so much lighter and more convenient for traveling).
Click to expand...

Which Fuji lens are you using it with? The new Fujinon 56mm f/1.2 looks very cool, and Fuji really seems to listen to their customers for future body and lens improvements.

When I had the Sony A7R here, I remember looking at my shelf full of Canon L glass and thinking, "Wouldn't it be awesome if Canon would make a serious mirrorless body with IQ similar to Fuji, so that I could use all my Canon glass with AF intact, without the hassle and degradation from adapters?" Canon, can you take your head out of the EOS-M2 pile and listen to your customers?
 
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Aglet

Aglet

Feb 26, 2012
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Well, I got my mitts on one the other week.
I really like the size and the way it fits in my hands but I do find a lot of little ergonomic niggles bothersome.
Mostly, those little buttons can be vexing and the EV comp dial is a bit too stiff to easily thumb-it while it's up to your eye without using your shutter release finger to assist rotating the dial. Rear control wheel is a little onstructed by a body ridge and the back AF button is similarly awkward with the comfy thumb grip in the way.
Viewfinder is great and the better lenses AF faster than some of my lower end SLR systems.
I'll likely get one simply because I can easily adapt all my old Nikon, Pentax, M42 and other lenses onto it too.

If the buttons aren't improved by then, I can see myself machining and gluing little add-ons to them to make them easier to operate. It would only take about 0.5mm more height on most of them to make them much easier to use, maybe almost 1mm on the AFL button.
 
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Aglet

Aglet

Feb 26, 2012
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Steve said:
Supposedly the EV dial is stiff because a lot of people complained it was too easy to bump accidentally on the XE1/2.
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I've heard that. I've got XE1s, I think the comp dial on them's just right for stiffness.
I've bumped my 7D's mode dial far more often with worse results.

How to fix the X-T1's basic ergonomics:
  • taller buttons for easier press
  • easier to turn EV comp dial
  • toss the lock button on the ISO dial and make it as stiff as the EV comp dial was
  • swap the shutter speed dial for a PASM mode dial with a bunch of custom modes without a lock button
  • rear control wheel should protrude slightly more
  • re-sculpt thumb-grip for easier access to AFL button

Having to set aperture to far end to activate other modes is just plain goofy, even when you do get used to it but I guess that's a functional compromise made when using an aperture ring which many of us as just as content to adjust with a control wheel instead.
 
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S

Steve

Nov 4, 2013
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Aglet said:
I've heard that. I've got XE1s, I think the comp dial on them's just right for stiffness.
I've bumped my 7D's mode dial far more often with worse results.
Click to expand...

I agree, I've never had problems with my X-E1 EV dial either. Maybe it happens more on the X-E2? *shrug*

Aglet said:
How to fix the X-T1's basic ergonomics:
  • swap the shutter speed dial for a PASM mode dial with a bunch of custom modes without a lock button

Having to set aperture to far end to activate other modes is just plain goofy, even when you do get used to it but I guess that's a functional compromise made when using an aperture ring which many of us as just as content to adjust with a control wheel instead.
Click to expand...

The other stuff on the list I can't speak to but these two complaints are kind of against one of the core reasons someone would want to buy a Fuji X series camera. One of the main attractions (besides the killer crop sensor and some nice glass) is the old style manual control layout. I personally don't use the shutter speed dial all that much but I think its pretty cool that the way to set modes on the camera is a physical reminder of the functions themselves, ie setting the shutter speed to "A" puts you in Av, turning the aperture ring to "A" sets you to Tv (or auto if the shutter dial is in "A") and you can switch between the two on the fly just by choosing a setting. Its pretty annoying when I forget that I'm set to Av on my 1dIV, go to change my shutter speed and send my aperture to like f22 by accident. Not something you can do if your aperture dial also controls the aperture dependent mode. I think its pretty elegant.
 
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Aglet

Aglet

Feb 26, 2012
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where that elegance breaks down is when using a lens without an aperture ring... you have to spin the control wheel quite a bit to get over to the far end that allows the mode change.
Otherwise, yes, it's a good concept and it certainly works well to slow _me_ down to be a little more careful about taking the shot. Which seems to me a bit like what the Nikon Df was trying to accomplish. Not a bad thing, but it can feel like a handicap if your used to a mode control (dial) you can change in a fraction of a second.
 
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S

Steve

Nov 4, 2013
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Aglet said:
where that elegance breaks down is when using a lens without an aperture ring... you have to spin the control wheel quite a bit to get over to the far end that allows the mode change.
Otherwise, yes, it's a good concept and it certainly works well to slow _me_ down to be a little more careful about taking the shot. Which seems to me a bit like what the Nikon Df was trying to accomplish. Not a bad thing, but it can feel like a handicap if your used to a mode control (dial) you can change in a fraction of a second.
Click to expand...

Ah, fair enough. I don't have a lens without the aperture ring so it's never been something I've dealt with.
 
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