Gear insurance? I must have gone to the wrong place. Your advice requested

MARKOE PHOTOE

Photography is a love affair with life.
I've seen several topics here previously about insuring your gear against theft or damage and I'm sorry I can't find that thread for reference.

I went to a State Farm agent and requested a quote to cover my inventory that totals about $45K. They sent a proposal for $850/annually which is much more than I recall hearing from other shooters here.

Who are others using for insurance?

Thanks again for your help. This is better than Dear Abby.... ::)
 
MARKOE PHOTOE said:
I've seen several topics here previously about insuring your gear against theft or damage and I'm sorry I can't find that thread for reference.

I went to a State Farm agent and requested a quote to cover my inventory that totals about $45K. They sent a proposal for $850/annually which is much more than I recall hearing from other shooters here.

Who are others using for insurance?

Thanks again for your help. This is better than Dear Abby.... ::)

Was this coverage for personal or business use?
 
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MARKOE PHOTOE

Photography is a love affair with life.
raptor3x said:
MARKOE PHOTOE said:
I've seen several topics here previously about insuring your gear against theft or damage and I'm sorry I can't find that thread for reference.

I went to a State Farm agent and requested a quote to cover my inventory that totals about $45K. They sent a proposal for $850/annually which is much more than I recall hearing from other shooters here.

Who are others using for insurance?

Thanks again for your help. This is better than Dear Abby.... ::)

This was for personal use only; not professional.

Was this coverage for personal or business use?
 
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AlanF

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Aug 16, 2012
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Insurance is a casino game between you and the insurance company in which the odds are stacked in their favour. Many years ago, I was given the advice that you insure yourself only against events that happen very rarely and are too expensive for you to cover. If you can afford to replace your gear, then don't insure it because the insurance companies have the odds stacked in their favour - they make a profit because on average the insurance premiums cost more than the cost of repairs and losses.
 
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AlanF said:
Insurance is a casino game between you and the insurance company in which the odds are stacked in their favour. Many years ago, I was given the advice that you insure yourself only against events that happen very rarely and are too expensive for you to cover. If you can afford to replace your gear, then don't insure it because the insurance companies have the odds stacked in their favour - they make a profit because on average the insurance premiums cost more than the cost of repairs and losses.

So I take it that you don't insure your house or car either? Of course insurance companies are out to make a profit, they can't provide that service for free! The model is for them to spread the risk over many in hopes of reducing their risks and keeping the premiums lower for everyone in the group. That's just how it works.
 
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Jul 21, 2010
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AlanF said:
Many years ago, I was given the advice that you insure yourself only against events that happen very rarely and are too expensive for you to cover. If you can afford to replace your gear, then don't insure it...

The OP mentions having $45,000 worth of gear – that's about what I have, and I'd find it difficult (if not impossible) to replace that amount in the short term.

But a good reminder is that you should consider carefully before filing a claim, at least for US policies covering personal (not business) use. Those are generally linked to homeowners'/renters' policies, claims against them go into the same database (CLUE), and can affect rates and even eligibility for home/rental coverage.

I view my policy as 'catastrophic' coverage. If I drop my 135/2L to the pavement and it shatters, I'll buy a new one. If my 1D X + 600/4L IS II fall off a cliff, or if my house is robbed and all my gear taken, I'll file a claim.
 
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Mar 25, 2011
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nonac said:
AlanF said:
Insurance is a casino game between you and the insurance company in which the odds are stacked in their favour. Many years ago, I was given the advice that you insure yourself only against events that happen very rarely and are too expensive for you to cover. If you can afford to replace your gear, then don't insure it because the insurance companies have the odds stacked in their favour - they make a profit because on average the insurance premiums cost more than the cost of repairs and losses.

So I take it that you don't insure your house or car either? Of course insurance companies are out to make a profit, they can't provide that service for free! The model is for them to spread the risk over many in hopes of reducing their risks and keeping the premiums lower for everyone in the group. That's just how it works.




If his house is not too expensive for him to replace with pocket change, he would be ahead to not insure it. I stop insuring my cars, except for liability once they are a few years old, its a losing bet. I once had a homeowners insurance loss of about $5,000. This was after paying insurance for 40 years with no losses. The insurance company cancelled my policy. I lost a lot of $$ on that, If I'd have invested that insurance $$$ in the bank for 40 years, I could buy a new house. Of course, by mortgage company would not allow that.


Life insurance is the same story. Bet a insurance company that you will die, and you will most likely lose. They know the odds, and always win.


Many larger companies are self insured, or only purchase insurance for catastrophic losses, they know the cost well.
 
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Mt Spokane Photography said:
nonac said:
AlanF said:
Insurance is a casino game between you and the insurance company in which the odds are stacked in their favour. Many years ago, I was given the advice that you insure yourself only against events that happen very rarely and are too expensive for you to cover. If you can afford to replace your gear, then don't insure it because the insurance companies have the odds stacked in their favour - they make a profit because on average the insurance premiums cost more than the cost of repairs and losses.

So I take it that you don't insure your house or car either? Of course insurance companies are out to make a profit, they can't provide that service for free! The model is for them to spread the risk over many in hopes of reducing their risks and keeping the premiums lower for everyone in the group. That's just how it works.




If his house is not too expensive for him to replace with pocket change, he would be ahead to not insure it. I stop insuring my cars, except for liability once they are a few years old, its a losing bet. I once had a homeowners insurance loss of about $5,000. This was after paying insurance for 40 years with no losses. The insurance company cancelled my policy. I lost a lot of $$ on that, If I'd have invested that insurance $$$ in the bank for 40 years, I could buy a new house. Of course, by mortgage company would not allow that.


Life insurance is the same story. Bet a insurance company that you will die, and you will most likely lose. They know the odds, and always win.


Many larger companies are self insured, or only purchase insurance for catastrophic losses, they know the cost well.

It's like neuro said, insurance is generally for catastrophic events. The problem is many people don't think these events will happen to them. Had you been allowed to "bank" that homeowners premium and in year 2 of ownership, the house burns to the ground, you would wish you had coverage. I can't believe the company cancelled your policy on a $5000 claim. I have had vehicle and homeowner claims over the years totaling way more than that and I still have the same insurance company.

Twenty-eight years ago I went to the Dr with a sore throat, 5 months and $100k in medical bills later the cancer I didn't know I had was in remission. Had I not had health insurance, I would probably still be paying hospital bills. Insurance is critical for those catastrophic, unexpected events. Yes, they may never happen, but if they do you'll be glad you're covered.
 
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First, I agree, you should only insure what you absolutely have to. I insure my 5D III and EF 600/4 L II. That's it. All the rest, I can cover myself. The payouts from the insurance company would top out at maybe a grand anyway, and if you do a lot of little claims like that (especially when using a home insurance rider or schedule), it ultimately results in larger premium increases. Only insure things that cost at least a few thousand dollars. In the case of the 600mm lens, it's $12,800 new...I pay something like an extra $300 a year to insure my two things on my home insurance scheduled property rider...a very small price to pay in case my lens was damaged and had to be replaced.

Insurance companies may "win" on a personal basis, but in the big picture, they have been getting slammed over the past good number of years now. Maybe since Katrina, the insurance payouts have been pretty significant in large regions of our country. My parents house (they also live here in Colorado, up in the mountains of the Front Range, just above Jamestown) was damaged by the September rains we had here in Colorado last year.

They are just one of many thousands of people at least, if not millions of people, who have had to file insurance claims. The payout just for the Colorado disaster is going to end up in the hundreds of millions at least, and it's all still on-going. Stuff is still totally damaged, and it will take years to fully repair (for example, the main road up to my parents house is half-washed out in a couple dozen places...there is not enough room for more than one car to pass at a time). The work to shore up whole entire valleys in that area, bring in massive amounts of earth, rebuild roads, build giant culverts and other water management systems to handle the kind of deluge we had, etc. is all ongoing, probably will be for another year or so. Massive insurance payouts and other expenses going on there.

The town of Jamestown itself was pretty much destroyed, only one side of main street (and anything that was up in the mountains) survived, and a lot was damaged there as well. Many homes were completely washed away and have had to be rebuilt from scratch (that's several hundred grand a home right there in insurance payouts.)

People all over the front range and the plains just in front of it had flood and mud damage. Many thousands more, all the way out to my house (which is in the Aurora South area, fairly well east of the mountains themselves) had significant hail damage (thousands upon thousands of roofs have been replaced around here, some have had multiple claims).

My roof could probably stand to be replaced, but I'm holding out as long as I can to maintain my "claims free" status, as it's a moderately significant discount, and my insurance has gone up enough already as insurance companies around here scramble to cover all their costs. (Ah, gotta love subsidies in the face of countless natural disasters year after year.)

Anyway...I wouldn't say that insurance companies just plain and simply "always" win. They win...for a while...until the claims start piling up. Then their profit margins tank significantly, their costs just to handle all the claims flowing in increases, they eventually react by jacking up everyone's premiums...until the next natural disaster occurs, costing hundreds of millions to billions, and the payouts start again. Before Katrina, it was pretty common for insurance companies (mainly the broad insurance providers, Farmers, American Family, All State, etc.) to have profit margins in the double digits (which, truly, is very high...but when you think about what insurance is, in the good years, it NEEDS to be high). I think 8% was relatively "low". After Katrina, profit margins for insurance companies tanked down to around the -20% range for a while. They topped 10% again for a little while, and have been declining since. In recent years, big insurance company profit margins are down in the 2-6% range, however there have been spans in recent years where their profit margins were -7-10%. Average it out, and profit margins for insurance companies are at best a third of what they were, at worst a fifth, and shrinking. And the payouts continue...

So, don't be surprised if you have to pay to protect your investments. Insurance payouts are very high in recent years, and look to remain relatively high in the future.
 
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thepancakeman

If at first you don't succeed, don't try skydiving
Aug 18, 2011
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Mt Spokane Photography said:
nonac said:
AlanF said:
Insurance is a casino game between you and the insurance company in which the odds are stacked in their favour. Many years ago, I was given the advice that you insure yourself only against events that happen very rarely and are too expensive for you to cover. If you can afford to replace your gear, then don't insure it because the insurance companies have the odds stacked in their favour - they make a profit because on average the insurance premiums cost more than the cost of repairs and losses.

So I take it that you don't insure your house or car either? Of course insurance companies are out to make a profit, they can't provide that service for free! The model is for them to spread the risk over many in hopes of reducing their risks and keeping the premiums lower for everyone in the group. That's just how it works.




If his house is not too expensive for him to replace with pocket change, he would be ahead to not insure it. I stop insuring my cars, except for liability once they are a few years old, its a losing bet. I once had a homeowners insurance loss of about $5,000. This was after paying insurance for 40 years with no losses. The insurance company cancelled my policy. I lost a lot of $$ on that, If I'd have invested that insurance $$$ in the bank for 40 years, I could buy a new house. Of course, by mortgage company would not allow that.


Life insurance is the same story. Bet a insurance company that you will die, and you will most likely lose. They know the odds, and always win.


Many larger companies are self insured, or only purchase insurance for catastrophic losses, they know the cost well.

I have some rather wealthy friends that recently claimed that home owners insurance was a middle-class invention. I'm not sure if they've changed their tune after their home burned to the ground. ???
 
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Mar 25, 2011
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nonac said:
Mt Spokane Photography said:
nonac said:
AlanF said:
Insurance is a casino game between you and the insurance company in which the odds are stacked in their favour. Many years ago, I was given the advice that you insure yourself only against events that happen very rarely and are too expensive for you to cover. If you can afford to replace your gear, then don't insure it because the insurance companies have the odds stacked in their favour - they make a profit because on average the insurance premiums cost more than the cost of repairs and losses.

So I take it that you don't insure your house or car either? Of course insurance companies are out to make a profit, they can't provide that service for free! The model is for them to spread the risk over many in hopes of reducing their risks and keeping the premiums lower for everyone in the group. That's just how it works.




If his house is not too expensive for him to replace with pocket change, he would be ahead to not insure it. I stop insuring my cars, except for liability once they are a few years old, its a losing bet. I once had a homeowners insurance loss of about $5,000. This was after paying insurance for 40 years with no losses. The insurance company cancelled my policy. I lost a lot of $$ on that, If I'd have invested that insurance $$$ in the bank for 40 years, I could buy a new house. Of course, by mortgage company would not allow that.


Life insurance is the same story. Bet a insurance company that you will die, and you will most likely lose. They know the odds, and always win.


Many larger companies are self insured, or only purchase insurance for catastrophic losses, they know the cost well.

It's like neuro said, insurance is generally for catastrophic events. The problem is many people don't think these events will happen to them. Had you been allowed to "bank" that homeowners premium and in year 2 of ownership, the house burns to the ground, you would wish you had coverage. I can't believe the company cancelled your policy on a $5000 claim. I have had vehicle and homeowner claims over the years totaling way more than that and I still have the same insurance company.

Twenty-eight years ago I went to the Dr with a sore throat, 5 months and $100k in medical bills later the cancer I didn't know I had was in remission. Had I not had health insurance, I would probably still be paying hospital bills. Insurance is critical for those catastrophic, unexpected events. Yes, they may never happen, but if they do you'll be glad you're covered.




Maybe I wasn't clear, we probably are thinking alike.


I was trying to say that if you can afford the consequences, then you are ahead to self insure. Having catastrophic insurance that covers huge losses that you cannot afford is a good idea. However, if you are insuring something that you can afford to replace, then its a losing bet. It does not pay to have insurance with zero deductable,


Unfortunately, those who need insurance the most, often can't afford it.


I definitely keep medical insurance, $100K is not unusual for serious illnesses. I carry $500 deductible on my car insurance for collision, but only for new cars.


I'd say, carry $500 deductible for camera equipment or even higher. That will protect you from a big loss, but you will have to pay for less costly losses. My camera equipment (about 20K) is insured under homeowners with a $500 deductible.
 
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MARKOE PHOTOE said:
I've seen several topics here previously about insuring your gear against theft or damage and I'm sorry I can't find that thread for reference.

I went to a State Farm agent and requested a quote to cover my inventory that totals about $45K. They sent a proposal for $850/annually which is much more than I recall hearing from other shooters here.

Who are others using for insurance?

Thanks again for your help. This is better than Dear Abby.... ::)


I pay state farm ~$150/year for $11k.... $150x4 is $600..so seems like a little much. I have a personal article policy (not for business) that covers everything except for war and vermin. I will note that it was kinda a hassle to get everything insured though, as you might expect they want receipts and some other form of proof of purchase. They even wanted an appraisal, but I got them to settle for the aforementioned documentation. Thankfully I have not needed it yet, but contrary to what others have said, if I lost, broke, or had a $1k piece of gear stolen I would file a claim....though I might think twice about filing a claim for something worth only a few hundred. I suppose the threshold of when to file a claim depends on one's financial state.
 
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AlanF

Desperately seeking birds
CR Pro
Aug 16, 2012
12,440
22,874
nonac said:
AlanF said:
Insurance is a casino game between you and the insurance company in which the odds are stacked in their favour. Many years ago, I was given the advice that you insure yourself only against events that happen very rarely and are too expensive for you to cover. If you can afford to replace your gear, then don't insure it because the insurance companies have the odds stacked in their favour - they make a profit because on average the insurance premiums cost more than the cost of repairs and losses.

So I take it that you don't insure your house or car either? Of course insurance companies are out to make a profit, they can't provide that service for free! The model is for them to spread the risk over many in hopes of reducing their risks and keeping the premiums lower for everyone in the group. That's just how it works.

You clearly haven't read what I wrote and you don't understand odds. I insure my house because I could not afford to replace it if it burned down. I don't insure my washing machine because I can afford to replace it if it breaks down. I don't bother to insure most of my photographic gear because I am more careful than the average bear and rarely drop or lose items or leave them where they can be stolen and I can afford to replace them. If I insured them I would be paying over the odds to have the insurance company make a profit and to pay for all those careless individuals who don't look after their gear.
 
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Mar 25, 2011
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AlanF said:
I don't bother to insure most of my photographic gear because I am more careful than the average bear and rarely drop or lose items or leave them where they can be stolen and I can afford to replace them. If I insured them I would be paying over the odds to have the insurance company make a profit and to pay for all those careless individuals who don't look after their gear.


I agree with that. If I'd insured my photo gear for minor losses over the past 50 years, I'd have had "0" losses, but the same $ invested would buy me a new 600mmL.


However, there is fire and theft to consider, theft is not always due to carelessness, so I do insure for those, just not breakage. I knew a guy who kept his gear in a steel Knaak box in his basement bolted to the floor (from inside). Someone broke in, ransacked his house, pried up the box and too the whole thing.


Right now, we are at the start of wildfire season, and its pretty scarey. We could be burned out with little notice, and my camera gear is not what I'd be rescuing first.
 
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jmphoto

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Dec 10, 2013
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Re: Gear insurance? Check is in the mail

Just mailed check to State Farm - for just over 25K Personal Articles - Cameras. Worked out to $16.17 per thousand. Last year it was $12.80, but they sent nice (sic) letter sorta apologizing for increase. Letter also indicated some elements of Coin, Stamp, and Jewelry coverages eliminated. Located in semi-rural California and this is my only State Farm policy. My homeowner's wouldn't even quote; quietly recommended State Farm.
 
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One very important note to go along with this post: Before you sign anything and hand over a check, make sure you read and understand your policy! When I was pricing policies for my gear, I read every part of them and jotted down questions for the agents as I went through them. There can be major differences between them that may be important to you. Make sure you get the coverage you are aiming for. I bought my policy through Hill & Usher.
 
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