Hejnar Macro Rails

[stevelee]

I have the RRS rail. The only issue I have with it is that when you lock it down there is a bit of image shift.

I had read that using a rail was better for stacking than changing focus, but I'm not sure I agree with that now having some experience. Sure, focus breathing is an issue, but framing changes when using a rail also, and not only that but relative positions of objects change when moving a camera, which cause issues with focus stacking.

Issues with just changing focus were what caused me to get a rail. The latter generally works better for me, but the range that works is rather limited close to 1:1.

 

[gruhl28]

I have the RRS rail. The only issue I have with it is that when you lock it down there is a bit of image shift.

I had read that using a rail was better for stacking than changing focus, but I'm not sure I agree with that now having some experience. Sure, focus breathing is an issue, but framing changes when using a rail also, and not only that but relative positions of objects change when moving a camera, which cause issues with focus stacking.

Issues with just changing focus were what caused me to get a rail. The latter generally works better for me, but the range that works is rather limited close to 1:1.

I haven't really tried much yet with changing focus, just recently realized that the changing relative positions when moving using the focus rail was what was causing the stacking problems. What issues did you have with changing focus?

 

[chrysoberyl]

Or Stack-Shot. >>5:1 without stacking, I don't see the point. Stacking is so much easier with Stackshot. Just make sure to get the X3 controller even if you only use single axis.

So then I had to check out Stackshot. Oooh, looks sweet! I'm likely to keep the rail for field work. But if my obsession intensifies...

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Changing focus works best using a lens with rear focus group, since the entrance pupil then stays fixed. Some lenses are much better for the changing focus method than others.

A Voitlandar125mm Macro is excellent for the focus method, 630 degree rotation focus ring

They are over priced though. $$$$ so thats out for me, unless I find one at a estate sale cheaply.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Voigtlander-Macro-APO-LANTHAR-SL-125mm-f-2-5-Lens-Native-EF-mount-Excellent/173126327708?epid=101744630&hash=item284f221d9c:g:5AsAAOSwz7NabhB2

https://www.ebay.com/itm/EXCELLENT-Voigtlander-Macro-APO-Lanthar-125mm-F2-5-SL-Lens-w-Hood-from-JAPAN/323048548430?hash=item4b3731a84e:g:~6AAAOSwZLhY26-i

 

[Zeidora]

Is there some example of how (and why) you use such big stacks that you can explain without a lot of trouble?

I shoot small flowers with MP-E 65 at up to 5:1 with 5D2 and up to 4:1 with 5DsR. At 4:1 f/2.8 DOF is 53 µm, stacking steps = 70% of DOF = 37 µm. Flower are about 1.5 mm long plus rachis of inflorescence, and flowers in back of inflorescence so say 4 mm travel. 4000 µm : 37 µm/step = 108 steps.

I shoot fully open because that gives sharpest images. Effective f-stop is f/14 when setting lens to f/2.8, so just about at diffraction limit for 5DsR. On those photos I can see individual cells of the flowers. I compare that then to my scanning electron micrographs, which are B&W only. So the stacked images give me color, the SEM gets me detail. I also stack on stereo and compound microscope, but that's a different story again.

I go through that trouble for ongoing research into systematics of orchids. Those images get published in peer reviewed scientific journals, and I use them in my talks.

Processing 100 5DsR images, first from RAW to 16-bit tif in DXO, then stack in Zerene takes about 10 minutes on a 6 core MacPro desktop. Looking forward to the new MacPro, rumored to have 32 cores or so.

I know, a bit out there ... but people like me exist.

 

[Zeidora]

Or Stack-Shot. >>5:1 without stacking, I don't see the point. Stacking is so much easier with Stackshot. Just make sure to get the X3 controller even if you only use single axis.

So then I had to check out Stackshot. Oooh, looks sweet! I'm likely to keep the rail for field work. But if my obsession intensifies...

Yep! My X3 set-up just lives on top of one tripod. The old single axis is used to control a stepper motor on the fine focus of my compound microscope, and the Stackshot controller is run from a laptop with Zerene. The Hejnar rail is just for occasional outdoor work.

 

[stevelee]

I haven't really tried much yet with changing focus, just recently realized that the changing relative positions when moving using the focus rail was what was causing the stacking problems. What issues did you have with changing focus?

I've tried it with just the one macro lens I have. From Mt Spokane's post I gather there are lenses where it would work better. With mine, magnification changes with focus I guess, since closest focus is how you get 1:1.

The lens is the 100mm USM macro. I really like the lens for both macro and farther away. Now that I have a FF camera, it could be my portrait lens until I can afford an 85mm. Wide open it could blur the background pretty well. I've not used it for that purpose since I got the 6D2, so that suggests to me that a portrait lens would not be a priority until I have other gaps in my lens arsenal filled. I used the 50mm f/1.4 for that purpose on my Rebel, and hadn't used it for a long time, and still have found no reason to put it on my 6D2. So I'm not one of the people crying for an improved 50mm prime.

The kit 24-105mm STM has turned out to be more useful than I would have expected. The pictures I have made of people with it showed them in the context of the setting, so I didn't need wide lens openings to get what I wanted.

 

[Random Orbits]

I have the RRS rail. The only issue I have with it is that when you lock it down there is a bit of image shift.

I had read that using a rail was better for stacking than changing focus, but I'm not sure I agree with that now having some experience. Sure, focus breathing is an issue, but framing changes when using a rail also, and not only that but relative positions of objects change when moving a camera, which cause issues with focus stacking.

I find the rail works ok with the 100L up to 1:1, but I don't unlock it with the MP-E. The image shift from unlocking, turning the screw and relocking it gives me more problems than changing the magnification/focus plane at higher magnifications.

 

[NancyP]

Hey Zeidora, that's cool!
Tiny orchids!

I am rather fond of the Spiranthes cernua "Lady's Tresses" terrestrial orchids that are common in Missouri.

 

[Zeidora]

Hey Zeidora, that's cool!
Tiny orchids!

I am rather fond of the Spiranthes cernua "Lady's Tresses" terrestrial orchids that are common in Missouri.

Here's an illustration from one of my papers. Scale bars are 10 cm for plant, 1 cm for inflorescence, 1 mm for flowers.

 

[chrysoberyl]

I like this rail! Very well made and just what I need.

1 cm calcite crystal.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

The subject had me thinking about focus rails. I also started researching stacking software.

One interesting and helpful article can be found in the help files for Zerene Stacker. They do not sell rails, so its purely based on the facts as seen by the author.

It has me thinking that either using the focus ring or my bellows would do well for the larger subjects that I do, I currently have no interest in photographing extremely tiny subjects, but then, a motorized screw or a microscope focus block(whatever that is) looks best. I noted that there were only 3 entries for ideal, and all three used the rear of a bellows to vary the focus of larger objects. Some methods are rated excellent.

So, consider what you will be photographing and pick your tool knowing its limitations.

http://zerenesystems.com/cms/stacker/docs/troubleshooting/ringversusrail

 

[Zeidora]

microscope focus block(whatever that is) ..

It is the fine focus mechanism of a microscope stage. Some people get a cheap microscope off eBay, and just strip everything except the focusing mechanism, then use that to focus the camera or/and to move the specimen. Typically, a the travel distance per turn is 100 µm (compared to 1 mm of a screw focusing rail), so you can focus much more precisely. Hejnar make something equivalent with the micrometer screws.

I personally don't use that. If I need the precision of a microscope focus, I use a microscope. It's much easier to use a tool designed for the job.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

microscope focus block(whatever that is) ..

It is the fine focus mechanism of a microscope stage. Some people get a cheap microscope off eBay, and just strip everything except the focusing mechanism, then use that to focus the camera or/and to move the specimen. Typically, a the travel distance per turn is 100 µm (compared to 1 mm of a screw focusing rail), so you can focus much more precisely. Hejnar make something equivalent with the micrometer screws.

I personally don't use that. If I need the precision of a microscope focus, I use a microscope. It's much easier to use a tool designed for the job.

Interesting. I have a old microscope out in my shop. Its really heavy and welol built, but too much magnification unless I bought a different lens. I also have a inspection microscope with a ring light around the lens. Its a 5X scope and has a long working distance. I use it to inspect my camera sensor for specs of dirt, but have never bothered to get a simple camera adapter. I guess that I should give it a try someday. I have it mounted on a heavy granite slab to keep vibrations down. Since I calibrated sensitive digital scales, I needed a stable platform and it seemed like a good place for the microscope.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

My Novoflex Castel XL arrived this morning, bought from a photographer on ebay after some back and forth. Its main usage will be on my light table for product photos. I have a head bolted to it with heavy duty bolts, this will allow me to move my camera forward or backwards a bit, which will make a difference. I can try it for macros as well, but my bellows will do a better job in the studio when mounted on the light table.

I expect to use the focus method for most closeup photography, I really do not need to go to 1:1 or greater. I have a Canon 50mm f/2.5, a 100L, and a old 55 micro Nikkor AIS I've generally preferred my crop cameras for close focus use, I'll re-evaluate that.

Next is software. Zerene Stacker seems to be very powerful, and is integrated with Lightroom such that it will convert images to tiff for editing. Helicon will control the lens motor for a complete end to end solution, but has a tad less control over the output. Neither of them could handle one stack of images that were too much misaligned due to extreme focus breathing of my 15-85mm zoom. The 24-70mm f/2.8L II had no issues there. I'll be trying primes, I just did not have one on my camera at the time.