Here are the full Canon EOS R specifications

padam

EOS 7D MK II
Aug 26, 2015
686
290
of course, you didn't really mean FF but probably super 35, like your c200. In that case, then yes, minus the swivel screen the 1dxii has canon color science, dpaf and a heap of glass. (swivel is bottom priority list for me).
No C-Log, external ND, no EVF, fixed screen with crippled touch interface, very heavy and how much is that 1DX II again?
The C200 wasn't targeted for broadcast where 10-bit is required.

The whole point is: Canon knows very well how to position each of their photo/video cameras and they did exactly the same with this one.
 

tiggy@mac.com

Pentax K-1000
Jan 20, 2014
527
240
Thetford, VT
www.ForestMetrix.com
Spent a good part of weekend observing commentary and analysis of this forum. It is fantastic. No better forum for bouncing observations, and on the whole it has been kept very fact focused.

Different people have different needs, of course. For some, lack of focus peaking (if even true) is a deal breaker. For others, it is a card slot. I respect that. That said, I draw a line when judging this release between factors that are legitimately disappointing and factors that just would have been nice. That line is this: whether or not the feature is actually a step back from current DSLR feature set versus something we’d like that Canon has never previously provided.

FACTORS THAT LEGITIMATELY STINK
- this is a 3 FPS camera for people using AF in tracking mode (single reason I will wait). Canon hasn’t released a camera that slow since 2008 (rebel xs), so this is rather remarkable. For people coming from an early M series camera, it might not be as huge a difference, but for most DSLR switchers, it’ll be tough to swallow. The big legit complaint at the 5d4 launch was the nerfed FPS at 7. To go to 3 from that would require still subjects for the most part. Due to unclear terminology in spec list, sure if this applies to all servo mode or just face tracking; but in either case it isn’t the camera for a would-be 5d4 switcher imo. My “pew, pew, pew” SL1 is 33 percent faster, and maddenly slow.

FACTORS THAT WOULDA BEEN NICE
- 2nd card slot. Even for paid work, I don’t use the SD card in 5d4 because it slows FPS. Never had card failure that wasn’t because I sent it through washer and dryer by mistake. I swap cards out as I go along, reducing liability of loss (which never happens anyway). Much more concerned camera will get stolen (2x cards no help there). Shocked by shrill reaction to Nikon release’s lack of second card, and think it’s significant over-reaction. Reaction to Canon’s lack of 2nd card not quite as shrill, perhaps because opinions more considered now.

- IBIS... I just can’t get worked up about a lack of a feature that a company has never before demonstrated the capability of delivering. Would be very nice, of course, but certainly not a surprise.

- not EF mount... anyone who has used M mount before in the Canon world, knows that the adapter to EF is a non-issue. It just works. It’s not a deal. It is not at all like adapters that you see for Sony.

FACTORS THAT ARE LEGIT INNOVATIONS OR OTHER POSITIVES
- Despite me having a real dealbreaker preventing me from buying the new camera, I am still sorely tempted simply because of the glass that is being released. The 50 mm lens in the F/2 zoom are really compelling.

- Form factor looks pretty optimal, but will need to handle to know. This will be very personal and will vary by person. My sense: current pro models are unnecessarily large and heavy. Mirrorless are impractically small. This might be the Goldilocks form factor.

- Screen as trackpad for AF is a huge improvement over any current pro model. Anyone who has used the M5 with this feature knows. Joystick half as useful.

- Filters in adapters is brilliant.

- This appears to be the 5D4 sensor, which is great for the (speculated) price. Some have mentioned that this sensor would require a much higher price because of the price of the five series camera, but this is not so. That camera was released years ago, so offering that sensor at a much lower price is completely reasonable. People also point to the new six series camera, with a decidedly not very improved sensor, as showing that the price point of a five series sensor would be much higher. I think we can consider the recent six series release as an anomalously unimproved release and not use it to benchmark the market’s price to feature expectations. Of course, Canon is going to crow about this being a “completely redesigned sensor.” They have never not done this. 3/4 of people appear to believe that it will actually be a completely new sensor. There may indeed be some sort of adaptation that was required to do with the older sensor, but by and large when we see very similar sensors between cameras, they are pretty much the same sensor. I marvel at our gullibility sometimes.

UPSHOT:
- I am not going to buy this camera. When we first started discussing it I was already taking pictures of one of my 5D4 cameras so that I could list it on eBay. I am no longer going to sell that camera. I will have Canon CPS send me one of the R models when it becomes available for borrowing (already officially requested). But it will also likely buy one of the Sony A7R3s used, just to compare the two and later resell the Sony. This will be for experimentation. Because Canon created such a low frames per second body, I will look at the Sony system, but had Canon *fixed* the FPS issue, which really did require fixing from the already sluggish 5d4, I wouldn’t have bothered even looking. I do not plan to switch, but with a new mount in the offing, I need to do due diligence.

I look forward to the pro model coming out. Hopefully the super slow FPS is not a long-term limitation. When this is actually officially announced, we may see Canon making a development announcement about a different camera, for which we do not have the specs. So our speculation at this stage might be a little premature in terms of assuming we know a lot about their positioning in the market.

The thing that might be most exciting to me about the upcoming announcements is the release of the new 600 mm. Lots of good stuff, across vendors, coming out. It is exciting.
 

sebakunstpaul

I'm New Here
Sep 2, 2018
14
9
Agreed but Canon is also a conservative innovator. They bring features to the market when they are well-tested and work (at least in the FF and cinema lines).
Sony is the opposite (in my experience at least), bring things to the market and let the user test. Then, bring out a new model.
Both approaches get you eventually somwhere but only one has a track record of reliability.
Just my 2cents.
Sony have a track record of reliability in the vast majority of tech market segments they got involved.
The vast majority of the products they aimed to be quality and/or high end tech, usually excelled. I owned and used in various circumstances Sony products since 80s.
 
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3kramd5

EOS 5D MK IV
Mar 2, 2012
3,083
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Sure ... the fact that IBIS would allow customers to choose the Sigma Art lenses with higher resolution and much lower price tags, and still have IS, has of course nothing to do with it at all.
I believe they made that statement before sigma debuted the Art line, so yes, I agree with your conclusion ;)
 
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CanonGrunt

EOS 80D
Jan 28, 2012
130
24
No C-Log, external ND, no EVF, fixed screen with crippled touch interface, very heavy and how much is that 1DX II again?
The C200 wasn't targeted for broadcast where 10-bit is required.

The whole point is: Canon knows very well how to position each of their photo/video cameras and they did exactly the same with this one.

I think you mean internal ND Filters..
The c200 does have internal RAW light, yet just one C Fast card slot. Which is fine, and why I think most people won't care that the EOS R has just one card slot. I usually only use one slot on my 5 DsR, and other two card slot cameras.
 
Sep 3, 2018
6
4
Now we're having constructive conversation. I'm IN.

I agree with ALL of this:
-No C-Log: This is literally the dumbest decision ever. It's on the 5Div. No one is more upset about me than this. Profiles just don't hack it.
-internal** ND I think you mean: Ya, I'd love it. It's not critical for me, but boy do I miss it like my c300ii. I shoot at 60 frames a lot, so at 1/120 with a polarizer, I can get away with broad daylight in a pinch. It's by no means ideal.
-crippled touch: I just need focus occasionally. I'm not a fan of touch menus. That's just me.
-weight: definitely a big boy. but it flies well. it's also lighter than the c200 which I've considered many many times. I'd rather the c300ii and the c200 have babies. preferably one with 4k60. If you give me the same flavors as in the c300ii at 4k60, I'll pay the exorbitant prices, provided it's very near the ballpark of the c300ii launch price.
-no EVF, crippled touch features, very heavy and how much is that 1DX II again?

I quibble with your point about broadcast being the target, yes you're right, clearly broadcast was the not the target with the particular codec/bitdepth/subsampling selections and lack of 2 cfast slots. But the broadcast market on cinema Eos convos is straw man argument for me: many more people than just broadcast want 10 bit color. Many.

Yes, Canon is great at positioning, I totally agree. A bit of a short stick for me on this one. But again, if this is the lead in mirrorless like the rumors seem to suggest, then they're on the right track.
 
Last edited:
Jul 12, 2013
251
86
Spent a good part of weekend observing commentary and analysis of this forum. It is fantastic. No better forum for bouncing observations, and on the whole it has been kept very fact focused.

...

FACTORS THAT WOULDA BEEN NICE


- not EF mount... anyone who has used M mount before in the Canon world, knows that the adapter to EF is a non-issue. It just works. It’s not a deal. It is not at all like adapters that you see for Sony.

.
This!
 

Mark D5 TEAM II

Proud N0ink 0wnz0r / crApple iFruitcake H4t3r
Mar 5, 2013
1,367
118
Tleilax, Thalim Star System
So, now that the ranting & trolling is mostly over (until the official release, that is :p), I'm gonna do a Jordan Belfort, sell this camera to me, a long-time Canon DSLR owner with quite a few EF lenses. What's your sales pitch gonna be like, what's the value-added, why would I get this MILC over, say, a 6DII or a 7DII? What can this MILC do that I can't do with my existing DSLR? Create a demand for this camera for current Canon owners.
 

Kit.

EOR R
Apr 25, 2011
1,665
1,008
Price is in the middle but closer to the bottom of MY priority list for slot in my bag I'm looking to fill.
I don't want this camera for myself, but if the price is low enough, I may buy one for a Christmas gift.
 
Sep 3, 2018
6
4
Since it apparently would be only your fourth post on this forum (after registering today), we all wait with baited breath for your pronouncement. Canon is following through on a commitment to FF ML; they didn’t promise to put out the world’s be-all and end-all by the end of the year.
the phrases is wait with "bated" breath. As in, abated. Not fish-breath. But if you meant what you said, sorry, maybe it's a medical thing. I didn't mean to bring attention to it.
 
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CanonGrunt

EOS 80D
Jan 28, 2012
130
24
Sony have a track record of reliability in the vast majority of tech market segments they got involved.
The vast majority of the products they aimed to be quality and/or high end tech, usually excelled. I owned and used in various circumstances Sony products since 80s.

True, however, Sony has a horrible track record of keeping any of its departments at the top of its class once they start churning out cash for them. Playstation is the only exception. Sony Vaio computers used to be the market leader. They led in music and music players for a while. They even snagged a decent bit of the appliance market for a minute there. They have an internal business structure where they take the profits from one department to reinvent another department, and then lose their market share from the first one. I just don't trust Sony as a company, even if they have a great product out at the moment. I love a lot of their products, but I won't invest in a camera eco system that might fade away at an executives whim.

Canon, however has one job: imaging, varying forms of it, but imaging through and through. It's always sink or swim for Canon; Sony can do other things.
 
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padam

EOS 7D MK II
Aug 26, 2015
686
290
I think you mean internal ND Filters..
The c200 does have internal RAW light, yet just one C Fast card slot. Which is fine, and why I think most people won't care that the EOS R has just one card slot. I usually only use one slot on my 5 DsR, and other two card slot cameras.
no internal ND or external ND, all means the same exact thing.
 

JBSF

EOS 80D
Dec 19, 2014
116
54
the phrases is wait with "bated" breath. As in, abated. Not fish-breath. But if you meant what you said, sorry, maybe it's a medical thing. I didn't mean to bring attention to it.
“phrases” is plural; your verb is not in agreement with your subject.
 
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Kit.

EOR R
Apr 25, 2011
1,665
1,008
So, now that the ranting & trolling is mostly over (until the official release, that is :p), I'm gonna do a Jordan Belfort, sell this camera to me, a long-time Canon DSLR owner with quite a few EF lenses. What's your sales pitch gonna be like, what's the value-added, why would I get this MILC over, say, a 6DII or a 7DII? What can this MILC do that I can't do with my existing DSLR? Create a demand for this camera for current Canon owners.
It has 3 camera control rings. In manual mode, you could be able to control aperture, shutter speed and ISO at the same time, seeing the effect in the EVF. And in all other modes, you could be able to do the same (just one of these values is controlled not directly, but through exposure compensation).

If you replace your 6DII with it, you will get a camera with a slightly better functionality and with a more capable UI - once you get used to it.
 

reef58

EOS RP
Apr 16, 2016
234
126
You’ve obviously never used a mirrorless camera then.

I shoot 1D and 5D line cameras along side a Sony A7rii and much prefer the mirrorless features over the traditional DSLR - they feel ancient in comparison. I held off upgrading my A7rii to the A7riii in the hope Canon had something like this and its a great start and hope to see a high resolution version next.
I have used them and really don't like them. Then again I don't need 10,000 features in a camera. I am not in the market for a full frame mirrorless at this time, but if I were I really would prefer a non IBIS. It is something I don't use, and it is a delicate item. I have an Olympus E M10 which is a cool little camera, but I use it so rarely I literally have to watch youtube videos to remember how all of the features are accessed. That is not the camera's fault obviously but rather my occasional use, but my 5d4 I can pick up and go no matter. I have a 500 f4 and the IS is off 90% of the time.
 

scyrene

EOS 5D MK IV
Dec 4, 2013
2,620
568
UK
www.flickr.com
It's not unreasonable for people be upset when they have to pay more for fewer features. Especially for a ILC where for many people, switching to different systems means you're gonna take a bath. Canon has the largest budget and could, if they so choose, put out a camera that beats the competition. Of course, no one is immediately putting their gear up on Ebay today, they're going to wait for the announcement to see everything, but it's not unreasonable for them to be disappointed at the currently known information.
But they don't have to pay. They don't have to buy anything. And fwiw I've never made a significant loss on selling gear - especially lenses (though it probably varies by region). If they're in good condition you can break even sometimes. But in a any case our current cameras still work. Just because a new model is announced, it needn't have any impact at all.

I simply don't understand the mentality. I bought a camera that suited my budget and general needs. I bought lenses for my preferred subjects. I'm not sat around thinking I need X feature and if it's not provided by every company then the world will end. If I want to try something new then I'll see what products are available to enable it, and if I can afford them, I'll get one. Isn't that how it works for everyone? PS there's a big difference between being disappointed and throwing a tantrum, which some forum posters have been doing.
 
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