Here are the full Canon EOS R specifications

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The more I think about IBIS the more I'm opposed to it. Seems to me like the sensor should be bolted down—let the lenses correct for shake, and let that shake correction be engineered for the lens at hand. IBIS is a one-size-fits-all solution for lenses from 9mm to 100's of mm. And it's another high-tech thing to go wrong. There are so many complex systems built into modern cameras, why keep adding more. I just sent my main camera body to CPS for repair—and it has no IBIS. Just shut down, dead as a doornail. Yes this is the first time such a thing has happened in my experience, and yes I have a backup. But when you add IBIS you add risk of failure and the very core of you system.

same argument could be applied to power steering, electric windows, and a whole host of features which differentiate your car from a 1960s family saloon ...
 
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I'm so deeply disappointed by the lack of IBIS. IBIS opens up so many possibilities for taking night time landscapes without having to haul around a cumbersome tripod. With Sony having it, and Nikon jumping on the bandwagon, I thought for sure Canon would get with it. But no.

It's so frustrating the way they make cameras that are solid, reliable, great to use, which keeps me sticking with them, but consistently lack the features and technological advancement of the competitors. It's like we're always forced to choose between having a robust, easy to use camera, and one with the latest features.

I was all ready to put my A7III up for sale, excited to have a Camera that works like a Canon with the features of a Sony. But no, it looks like it's barely more than a 5D4 without a mirror.

What is the deal? Do they just not think IBIS would be reliable? Are they that stubborn that they're sticking to their guns and claiming lens image stability is better even as everyone else goes to IBIS?

I guess it's nice I can still use all my 5D4 batteries. :rolleyes:
 
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I'm so deeply disappointed by the lack of IBIS. IBIS opens up so many possibilities for taking night time landscapes without having to haul around a cumbersome tripod.
Night time landscapes without a tripod? That you either shoot at a crazy ISO or you want IBIS to compensate a few seconds (or even minutes) of shaking.
 
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ahsanford

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Predictably disappointing. A crippled 5dmk4 sans mirror. Not much more than a placeholder.
The only redeeming quality would be if EF lenses actually work well, otherwise it's a noticeably inferior product to not only it's own dslr line but to the competing mirror less products as well.


You call it a crippled 5D4 sans mirror. Others might call it a 5D4 with completely silent shooting, a tilty-flippy, the ability to use manual focus glass through the viewfinder at a rumored price of $2k.

For the umpteenth time, we know EF lenses will work well. See how mirrorless with DPAF + adaptor does (this is just one example -- this forum is full of folks who have happily adapted their EF glass on to EOS M):


- A
 
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I'm so deeply disappointed by the lack of IBIS. IBIS opens up so many possibilities for taking night time landscapes without having to haul around a cumbersome tripod. With Sony having it, and Nikon jumping on the bandwagon, I thought for sure Canon would get with it. But no.

It's so frustrating the way they make cameras that are solid, reliable, great to use, which keeps me sticking with them, but consistently lack the features and technological advancement of the competitors. It's like we're always forced to choose between having a robust, easy to use camera, and one with the latest features.

I was all ready to put my A7III up for sale, excited to have a Camera that works like a Canon with the features of a Sony. But no, it looks like it's barely more than a 5D4 without a mirror.

What is the deal? Do they just not think IBIS would be reliable? Are they that stubborn that they're sticking to their guns and claiming lens image stability is better even as everyone else goes to IBIS?

I guess it's nice I can still use all my 5D4 batteries. :rolleyes:
I too feel very frustrated by the lack of latest features. Was hoping for 1080p 120fps and IBIS. While these features seem HIGHLY unlikely at this point, I'm still not going to draw any final conclusions about this new system or make any buying decisions until the official announcement.

As far as I'm concerned, nothing is truly known for sure until Canon provides the details themselves.
 
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ahsanford

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Night time landscapes without a tripod? That you either shoot at a crazy ISO or you want IBIS to compensate a few seconds (or even minutes) of shaking.


Not all nighttime landscapes are astro. Cityscapes come to mind as well. I remember Chris Gampat at Phoblographer rave about shooting an Olympus and with an UWA lens held the shutter open for something absurd -- up to 15 seconds -- and net sharp shots with the IBIS of that system. That's bonkers.

I find absurd 5+ second hand held shots a bit of a parlour trick. But lets admit that it's a neat parlour trick, and I'm stuck in dark cave-like interiors or nighttime city walkabouts sans flash all the time. I have lens IS on all four of my wider lenses I might use in those siutations (16-35 f/4L IS, 24-70 f/4L IS, 28 f/2.8 IS, 35 f/2 IS), but if IBIS + Lens IS can add to greater effect (esp. on wider FLs), color me interested with IBIS.

- A
 
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I think there is another reason for mirrorless: More variability for lens element placement due to the lacking mirror region. Maybe this is the only reason for the existence of a large f/2 28-70 which were ultra large if you had to do strong retrofocus for a SLR. Both targeting the same IQ level to be comparable.

And I am with you in your last line: I enjoy my M50 just with the 70-200 f/4 but if I want just a small camera with a medium bright lens I use the EF-M 22 which makes it a good current version of these 35mm compact cameras with ... 35mm lenses!
Yes, Samyang for example make that small autofocus 35mm for Sony, quite nice lens as i understood.
 
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sdz

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Same thing was said about IS lenses when Canon first introduced them!

"Wobbly bits in lenses?" Terrible idea!," said the Nikon and Leica enthusiasts.
Time will tell if IBIS is a particular Achilles' heel reliability-wise. As one who actually left Nikon over the IS issue when they lagged introducing VR, I find IBIS a logical and highly desirable feature. Love my 300/2.8L IS and my 600/4L IS but my 180mm, 16-35mm, and 135mm would sure be more useable hand-held with IBIS!

I would not care about the EOS R but for IBIS. My hands are not as steady as they were years back.
 
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Aug 21, 2018
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Not all nighttime landscapes are astro. Cityscapes come to mind as well. I remember Chris Gampat at Phoblographer rave about shooting an Olympus and with an UWA lens held the shutter open for something absurd -- up to 15 seconds -- and net sharp shots with the IBIS of that system. That's bonkers.

I find absurd 5+ second hand held shots a bit of a parlour trick. But lets admit that it's a neat parlour trick, and I'm stuck in dark cave-like interiors or nighttime city walkabouts sans flash all the time. I have lens IS on all four of my wider lenses I might use in those siutations (16-35 f/4L IS, 24-70 f/4L IS, 28 f/2.8 IS, 35 f/2 IS), but if IBIS + Lens IS can add to greater effect (esp. on wider FLs), color me interested with IBIS.

- A
There are some really good comparisons out there of Canon lens IS vs Sony IBIS... the results seem to indicate that both systems are pretty much equal.

Having said that, the reason I'm not happy with the lack of IBIS on EOS R is that Canon doesn't put IS in all of its lenses. Those new fast primes and the F2 Zoom sound great... but they dont have IS... had this new camera been equipped with IBIS, problem solved.
 
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Maybe. But in the specs they only give us EVs and aperture, so as above, I think I made a reasonable assumption.

But in giving aperture, they’ve also given geometry.

Off sensor PDAF has sensors which require a given aperture, and it has to do with geometry. Again, this may be an entirely different situation (microlenses); I have never seen sufficient info on DPAF to know, or even assume that it’s only about quantity of light.
 
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same argument could be applied to power steering, electric windows, and a whole host of features which differentiate your car from a 1960s family saloon ...

In most cases if your power windows or heated seats quit working you can still drive your car. You can also find a repair shop right down the road. If your IBIS quits working well your camera is not going to produce. That being said I guess the same could be said for IS Lens stabilization also.
 
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Ozarker

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"f/2" means "the aperture is half the focal length".

If everything important in front of the camera is the same (light, distance to different objects in the scene) and the same object is in focus, it's the absolute size (and shape) of the entrance pupil that determines DoF and bokeh effects of the resulting picture. The rays of light that come from the points on the scene toward your sensor do not know the focal length of your lens; all they "know" is that once they pass the entrance pupil, they are in and are forming the image.

If, in addition, the angle of view is the same, it's the absolute size (and shape) of the entrance pupil that determines the intensity of the light hitting the sensor (if there is no light loss between the entrance pupil and the sensor).

You said the M43 lenses were 2 stops slower than FF. In other words, that an M43 lenses would need a faster shutter speed than an f/2 lens on FF with the same light, "for every practical purpose". Do you mean when using flash and getting the same framing? Or is that also true with natural light? That is what I want you to explain to me.

5D Mark III / Circle of confusion = 0.03
Distance to subject: 15'
50mm f/2 lens
DOF = 3.34'

Olympus E-M5 / Circle of confusion = 0.015 / Crop factor = 2
Distance to subject: 15' / 30'
50mm f/2 lens
DOF = 1.66' / 6.67'

Now, if I have to stand twice as far back to get the same framing, yes DOF is much deeper than a FF at half the distance. But, does that make the lens slower? I happen to think the shutter speed would be the same. The light gathering ability between the two lenses would be the same, wouldn't it? If they are both f/2? Is an f/2 lens on M4/3 really two stops slower than an f/2 lens on a FF camera?

Olympus E-M5 / Circle of confusion = 0.015 / Crop factor = 2
Distance to subject: 15' / 30"
50mm f/2 lens =@f/2 / @f/4
DOF = 3.34' / 13.84'

So I guess my question is one of shutter speed? Do you mean that shutter speed on an M43 Camera with an f/2 lens would need to be twice the shutter speed of a FF Camera with an f/2 lens to get the same exposure? I guess that must be my question. And I am seriously asking, not trying to be a smart ass. I honestly don't know what you mean by M43 being 2 stops slower than FF at the same f stop, shutter speed, etc.

From my calculations (Actually a DOF Calculator app) it looks as though DOF is half the depth on M43 for same exposure and distance and f/stop.

So, can you help me understand what you mean by two stops slower? I do have a FF and an M43 camera so I guess I could just go outside and match the focal lengths, shutter speeds, f/stop, etc and see. But I don't have a prime M43 so matching things up won't be exact.

Or is DOF the issue and not shutter speed?
 
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Night time landscapes without a tripod? That you either shoot at a crazy ISO or you want IBIS to compensate a few seconds (or even minutes) of shaking.
As was said elsehwere, yes, I'm talking more about cityscapes at night, not something like full-on astrophotography when, yes, obviously you need a tripod. In a city at night, there's normally enough light that IBIS would let you get a good shot at low ISO to preserve the shadows. Without it, the ISO frequently needs to be pushed up too high. IBIS makes the difference in this case. Not to mention, I don't want to carry a tripod around in the city at night... Too much unwanted attention.
 
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Egad, do we really have to go there again? The ‘crop factor’ does not apply to exposure, per se. An f/2 lens on FF, APS-C, m4/3, or an iPhone will have the same exposure settings (shutter speed + aperture + ISO) for a given scene. The smaller the sensor, the more apparent the noise. But the exposure won’t change. The DoF will change, of course, but mainly because if you put the lens in front of a smaller sensor, you need to change the distance to match the framing, farther away with a smaller sensor means a deeper DoF. If you maintain the subject distance and focal length, a given f/number will actually have a shallower DoF on a smaller sensor, because of the difference in circle of confusion. Speaking of circle of confusion, you need to get yourself out of it.

I am correct.

CanonFanBoy is correct. Although a f/2 lens is an f/2 lens, a M43 sensor is smaller than a FF sensor and hence M43 f/2 lens is slower than a FF f/2 lens. You have to apply the multiplication factor to get the 35mm equivalent.

A slower lens is a lens that lets in less light! A M43 lens with the f-stop as a FF lets in less light than the FF lens.
 
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