Here are the Results From Our Poll Regarding Camera Innovation Perception at Canon

Canon Rumors Guy

EOS 1D MK II
Jul 20, 2010
7,642
334
Canada
www.canonrumors.com
HTML:
<p>Last week <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/heres-why-canon-doesnt-need-to-innovate-but-it-does/">we posted a bit of an opinion piece</a> based off an <a href="https://fstoppers.com/originals/heres-why-canon-does-not-need-innovate-201130">article at Fstoppers</a> about perceived innovation at Canon when it comes to camera design and development.</p>
<p>We took an unscientific poll to see what our readers thought about Canon’s place in the market, and these are the results</p>
<p>[socialpoll id=”2487498″ path=”/polls/2487498″ fif=”false” width=”728″]</p>
<p>This being an enthusiasts site, I don’t think anyone will be too shocked by the results. I was a little surprised about the DSLR results, as the forum discussion seemed to be pretty forgiving when it came to that segment. The mirrorless and compact results? I don’t think those results will surprise anyone.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
 

nonac

EOS RP
Apr 19, 2012
284
0
56
Missouri
martybeckphotography.com
Sad, but true. I have been using Canon cameras exclusively since I picked up my first camera (AE-1) in 1979-80ish. i have been an ambassador for the brand, recommending them to many for years. However, of late, it is becoming harder and harder to do. They may be the top seller out there, but they are not the top innovator. I make part of my living with a camera and I need a brand that keeps up. When you watch another company like Sony, who hasn't been making cameras near as long as Canon, bring some amazing cameras to market, you start to lose confidence in what you own. I know that Sony cameras are rough around the edges and I am not planning to "jump ship" anytime soon, but they appear to be listening to consumers and progressively getting better. Look how far they have come in such a short period. Eventually they will be there, and Canon, at it's current pace sitting on it's hands, will start to feel it, more so with those just entering the market that have little invested in bodies or glass. Additionally, for working professionals, they can't continue with a brand when their competitors are providing better images to publishers with other brands. They will switch or be out of work. Canon, you need to wake up, selling on name alone will not always work.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,543
1,978
nonac said:
However, of late, it is becoming harder and harder to do. They may be the top seller out there, but they are not the top innovator.
Why are they the top seller? Obviously, what to recommend is your choice. Personally, I find that most people who ask me for a brand+product recommendation are new to ILCs. I generally recommend something affordable (they may not make this a lifelong hobby), user-friendly (if they have to RTFM, it's not), and reliable. I tend not to recommend products that are 'rough around the edges', at least not to people that I like. ;) Affordable, user-friendly, reliable...Canon has those covered. From an image-making standpoint, there's really nothing to differentiate among all current brands for the vast majority of users and use cases.


nonac said:
Canon, you need to wake up, selling on name alone will not always work.
Oh, so most buyers choose Canon because of the brand name? How do you know that? How many of the ~5 million people who bought a Canon ILC last year did you ask about their motivation?
 

unfocused

EOS 5D SR
Jul 20, 2010
4,872
1,132
65
Springfield, IL
www.mgordoncommunications.com
nonac said:
...for working professionals, they can't continue with a brand when their competitors are providing better images to publishers with other brands. They will switch or be out of work...
You get first prize...for hyperbole.

Sorry, but that's just a ridiculous statement. Tech geeks obsess over features. But professionals value reliability, consistency, durability and predictability. Most professionals readily admit that the camera brand has little to nothing to do with the quality of images. I'd love to know where you got the idea that professional photographers using Canon gear are delivering inferior work.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,543
1,978
unfocused said:
nonac said:
...for working professionals, they can't continue with a brand when their competitors are providing better images to publishers with other brands. They will switch or be out of work...
You get first prize...for hyperbole.

Sorry, but that's just a ridiculous statement. Tech geeks obsess over features. But professionals value reliability, consistency, durability and predictability. Most professionals readily admit that the camera brand has little to nothing to do with the quality of images. I'd love to know where you got the idea that professional photographers using Canon gear are delivering inferior work.
The DR, man...the DR. Where have you been for the past few years? All those poor Canon photographers out of work, how sad.

;)
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,084
1,564
Canada
When you consider that the vast majority of DSLR (and mirrorless) owners leave their camera in the full AUTO mode, that very few have more than 2 lenses, that they don't know about colour science and DR, and that they just don't care.... coupled with the fact that this site targets the fanatics/enthusiasts/geeks and it's members are not representative of the general public (for any brand), any such poll is at best misleading.....

This is like asking race car drivers to design a family mini-van and then listening to them when they want it to do 300Kph in the straights..... or even worse, TURN RIGHT!!!!!
 

RayValdez360

EOS RP
Jun 6, 2012
366
144
unfocused said:
nonac said:
...for working professionals, they can't continue with a brand when their competitors are providing better images to publishers with other brands. They will switch or be out of work...
You get first prize...for hyperbole.

Sorry, but that's just a ridiculous statement. Tech geeks obsess over features. But professionals value reliability, consistency, durability and predictability. Most professionals readily admit that the camera brand has little to nothing to do with the quality of images. I'd love to know where you got the idea that professional photographers using Canon gear are delivering inferior work.
that's is true but some features add to convenience (such as 60p 4k, decent codecs, focus peaking, flip scenes etc). As a professional we want to be as comfortable as possible when doing our jobs but also have reliability. Using a lot of cameras for different things or missing function because a particular camera cant do it can make life a bit harder.
 

Talys

Canon 6DII
Feb 16, 2017
2,056
328
Vancouver, BC
Don Haines said:
When you consider that the vast majority of DSLR (and mirrorless) owners leave their camera in the full AUTO mode, that very few have more than 2 lenses, ...
Is that true?

If so, that's terrible... they'd be better served with a non-ILC with a built-in superzoom, if they need reach, or a good smartphone if they don't. :(
 
Feb 19, 2018
1
0
Hello everyone,

Funny thing is that everyday Canon is making new patents but, when will we be able to see it in a new camera?
Canon is not working properly. Giving us technology litlle by a little and in a high price.
For example, Canon 6d mark II, 5-6 years waiting for making a camera with worst RD than the previous Canon 6d.
At less, they should keep the same quality with some more tecnology .
Canon 5d mark IV focus system coming from canon 80D I think. I´m waiting Canon some day can surprise me.
I started with a NIkon Fm2 and changed to Canon 40d because I thought it was better. Now I have a Canon 6d and some good L lens where Canon for me is a leader, but I am still disappointed and wondering what are making Canon engineers all these past years.
 

rrcphoto

EOS 5D MK IV
Jun 20, 2013
2,505
147
I think alot of canon's innovations get overlooked because they never show up on the spec sheet.

the 5DsR has an excellent ability to be tripod mounted with additional reinforcement to the mount and also the tripod mount, and a new shutter assembly. No shutter shock or other problems from a high resolution camera.

the M5 is possibly the most ergonomic mirrorless camera out there with a combination of direct control dials and DIAL FUNC dial offering expansion over a normal fiddly as f.. mirrorless. Not mention a super configurable AF area on the LCD.

No one has been able to match DPAF to date, and still some mirrorless suffer from IQ degeneration across the lines where the PDAF sensors are located if the image is pushed.

Their UI for liveview / mirrorless is one of the best out there, beating everyone except perhaps Panasonic for ease of use, and smartphone like behavior.

However, they aren't catering to the video whiners and the spec sheet / DXO watchers that base everything on what they can't hold, touch or feel, just what they read about.

As far as powershots, outside of providing 4K, they have the most complete lineup of 1" camera bodies of any manufacturer - from the super small G9X II to the larger superzoom G3X.
 

stevelee

FT-QL
Jul 6, 2017
1,168
226
Davidson, NC
Don Haines said:
When you consider that the vast majority of DSLR (and mirrorless) owners leave their camera in the full AUTO mode, that very few have more than 2 lenses, that they don't know about colour science and DR, and that they just don't care.... coupled with the fact that this site targets the fanatics/enthusiasts/geeks and it's members are not representative of the general public (for any brand), any such poll is at best misleading.....
One of the pleasant surprises of the 6D2 is how well the auto settings work in such a wide variety of situations. I don't do the A+ mode, which I gather is what you mean by full AUTO, but in P mode I usually have everything set on auto, and the camera makes really good decisions for the body and the lens. I'm shooting RAW, so some of the settings are not baked into the file, but I need only tweak them a bit, for my tastes, most of the time. I can see why folks would be happy with results from A+ mode for their JPEGs.

And even though I'm lazy most of the time and am not aiming beyond "good enough," I'm still glad to have all the manual controls when I feel a need for or interest in using them. I realize that I am not typical of the general public, and even less so of the denizens of this board.
 

crashpc

EOS RP
Jan 19, 2014
364
7
rrcphoto: You're right about that one. But those guys doing camera menu, outer design, lenses, are not the same guys doing sensors, obviously. There are good sides and bad sides of their job. M system has not good choice of lenses for enthusiasts, I always envy Sony for their sensors. I jumped the ship and got back, finding out that sensor alone is not everything, but we have the right for some expectations from nr1. manufacturer an LEADER, how they call themselves. They're lacking with this one for years, and it will be very hard to keep up with smaller sensors (APS-C) and dual pixels (split diodes. Microlenses cannot fully offset this "deficiency"). That's like 1/3 stops already, before any lack in technology.
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,084
1,564
Canada
Talys said:
Don Haines said:
When you consider that the vast majority of DSLR (and mirrorless) owners leave their camera in the full AUTO mode, that very few have more than 2 lenses, ...
Is that true?

If so, that's terrible... they'd be better served with a non-ILC with a built-in superzoom, if they need reach, or a good smartphone if they don't. :(
There are more birders in my camera club with superzooms than with DSLRs......

And sadly, yes, most people use automatic modes.... on the plus side, the auto modes are very capable
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
8,084
1,564
Canada
stevelee said:
Don Haines said:
When you consider that the vast majority of DSLR (and mirrorless) owners leave their camera in the full AUTO mode, that very few have more than 2 lenses, that they don't know about colour science and DR, and that they just don't care.... coupled with the fact that this site targets the fanatics/enthusiasts/geeks and it's members are not representative of the general public (for any brand), any such poll is at best misleading.....
One of the pleasant surprises of the 6D2 is how well the auto settings work in such a wide variety of situations. I don't do the A+ mode, which I gather is what you mean by full AUTO, but in P mode I usually have everything set on auto, and the camera makes really good decisions for the body and the lens. I'm shooting RAW, so some of the settings are not baked into the file, but I need only tweak them a bit, for my tastes, most of the time. I can see why folks would be happy with results from A+ mode for their JPEGs.

And even though I'm lazy most of the time and am not aiming beyond "good enough," I'm still glad to have all the manual controls when I feel a need for or interest in using them. I realize that I am not typical of the general public, and even less so of the denizens of this board.
I will probably get roasted by the forum members for saying this, but most of the time the full auto mode will do as good of a job as most of us will. It’s the more difficult situations where manual intervention (including semi auto modes) where our skills shine......
 

dak723

EOS 6D MK II
Oct 26, 2013
1,141
434
Don Haines said:
stevelee said:
Don Haines said:
When you consider that the vast majority of DSLR (and mirrorless) owners leave their camera in the full AUTO mode, that very few have more than 2 lenses, that they don't know about colour science and DR, and that they just don't care.... coupled with the fact that this site targets the fanatics/enthusiasts/geeks and it's members are not representative of the general public (for any brand), any such poll is at best misleading.....
One of the pleasant surprises of the 6D2 is how well the auto settings work in such a wide variety of situations. I don't do the A+ mode, which I gather is what you mean by full AUTO, but in P mode I usually have everything set on auto, and the camera makes really good decisions for the body and the lens. I'm shooting RAW, so some of the settings are not baked into the file, but I need only tweak them a bit, for my tastes, most of the time. I can see why folks would be happy with results from A+ mode for their JPEGs.

And even though I'm lazy most of the time and am not aiming beyond "good enough," I'm still glad to have all the manual controls when I feel a need for or interest in using them. I realize that I am not typical of the general public, and even less so of the denizens of this board.
I will probably get roasted by the forum members for saying this, but most of the time the full auto mode will do as good of a job as most of us will. It’s the more difficult situations where manual intervention (including semi auto modes) where our skills shine......
Kinda funny, but true of course. When I got my first SLR - The Olympus OM-1 - and it had a built in (very simple) light meter, The "photography elite" said, "Oh, no, If you are a real photographer, you need a real light meter." Guess what...you didn't. When I got my first Canon rebel with AF, it was, "Oh no, you need to use manual focus if you want to be a real photographer." Guess what...you didn't. As the quality of zoom lenses improved and all I owned was two zooms to cover all my needed focal distances, it was, "Oh, no, you still need primes to be a real photographer." Guess what...you didn't. Auto mode...yes, there are plenty of photographs taken by "experts" that could be improved if they used it - but no, you can't be a real photographer.... ;D
 

scyrene

EOR R
Dec 4, 2013
2,458
313
UK
www.flickr.com
nonac said:
I make part of my living with a camera and I need a brand that keeps up.
What does this actually mean? When a new camera model is launched (by any company), your current gear no longer produces usable images??

With the greatest of respect, I am immediately suspicious of anyone who claims to have been taking photographs for decades but has such a short-termist, narrow perspective. Surely after decades, one becomes more equivocal about innovation?
 

scyrene

EOR R
Dec 4, 2013
2,458
313
UK
www.flickr.com
Don Haines said:
stevelee said:
Don Haines said:
When you consider that the vast majority of DSLR (and mirrorless) owners leave their camera in the full AUTO mode, that very few have more than 2 lenses, that they don't know about colour science and DR, and that they just don't care.... coupled with the fact that this site targets the fanatics/enthusiasts/geeks and it's members are not representative of the general public (for any brand), any such poll is at best misleading.....
One of the pleasant surprises of the 6D2 is how well the auto settings work in such a wide variety of situations. I don't do the A+ mode, which I gather is what you mean by full AUTO, but in P mode I usually have everything set on auto, and the camera makes really good decisions for the body and the lens. I'm shooting RAW, so some of the settings are not baked into the file, but I need only tweak them a bit, for my tastes, most of the time. I can see why folks would be happy with results from A+ mode for their JPEGs.

And even though I'm lazy most of the time and am not aiming beyond "good enough," I'm still glad to have all the manual controls when I feel a need for or interest in using them. I realize that I am not typical of the general public, and even less so of the denizens of this board.
I will probably get roasted by the forum members for saying this, but most of the time the full auto mode will do as good of a job as most of us will. It’s the more difficult situations where manual intervention (including semi auto modes) where our skills shine......
It shouldn't be controversial! Auto modes are great, and nobody should be embarrassed to use them. I only use manual because of habit, and because I got burned a bit when starting out, when I didn't understand why some shots were good and some sucked, because the camera changed the settings between shots (it was the 300D, and no doubt auto modes have improved a lot since then!). But nobody should consider 'manual only' as a badge of honour.
 

stevelee

FT-QL
Jul 6, 2017
1,168
226
Davidson, NC
The point of wisdom is know what you want or need to control or override.

Obviously, most of us are not going to want to take shots of a waterfall at 1/4000 sec. or take head-and-shoulders portraits at f/16 no matter how bright the light is. And if and when we might for some special reason, we know how to do that, too.

And even if you want to set both aperture and shutter speed, you may well still use Auto ISO a lot of the time.

I'd rather concentrate on composition and timing of shots rather than twisting dials needlessly. I'd also like to get better at twisting the dials when needed, and I admit that takes practice.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,543
1,978
Don Haines said:
I will probably get roasted by the forum members for saying this, but most of the time the full auto mode will do as good of a job as most of us will.
My dSLR doesn't have a full auto mode. :'(
 

pwp

EOS 5D MK IV
Oct 25, 2010
2,521
13
unfocused said:
nonac said:
...for working professionals, they can't continue with a brand when their competitors are providing better images to publishers with other brands. They will switch or be out of work...
You get first prize...for hyperbole.

Sorry, but that's just a ridiculous statement. Tech geeks obsess over features. But professionals value reliability, consistency, durability and predictability. Most professionals readily admit that the camera brand has little to nothing to do with the quality of images. I'd love to know where you got the idea that professional photographers using Canon gear are delivering inferior work.
Exactly. I stopped fussing over features minutia a long time ago. The quality of the images has little to do with the piece of hardware in your hands, it's the brain driven creativity and experience that delivers the keepers.

-pw