How likely is a top-of-class EOS 7D Mk III – i.e. a DSLR?

haggie

EOS 80D
May 11, 2016
136
37
There are people that wonder what Canon has in mind for their customers with a cropped body action-oriented camera (i.e. the 7D Mk II). As you might guess, I am one of those people.

The lack of any credible rumor about the 7D Mk III starts to get worrying. A successor for the 7D Mk II could (or: should) be near. The combination of the rumor that Canon stopped the development of at least 1 DSLR (“Canon said to have scrapped at least one DSLR in development [CR2]” ) and the recent rumor that the Canon EOS-1D X Mark II may be due in Q4 of 2019 (“The follow-up to Canon EOS-1D X Mark II may come in 2019 [CR2]” ) does not give much hope.

It is no shame that 4 years after the 7D Mk II was introduced, technology has improved to a degree that the EOS 7D Mk II no longer is “best-of-class” like when it came out.
Although the 7D Mk II is still a potent camera for many situations, there is better technology available now. And as a Canon owner, I want access to that. I think that more of Canon’s 7D Mk II customers might feel that way.

Especially in action photography, with fast maneuvering aircraft or birds in flight and often no way to influence the lighting, a more capable camera means the ability to get good results under circumstances that until then gave little hope for success.

Nikon has shown with its D500 that useful improvements are still feasible for this class of cropped cameras. In particular in the autofocus system and also in sensor technology. Such improvements benefit the user because they result in more keepers (a result from improvements in AF behavior) and in better image quality (a result from a better sensor). The latter is due to more ‘room’ for post-processing, in particular because of better Dynamic Range, but also somewhat better Noise properties.

But the 7D Mk II is no toy camera, so further improvements in AF- and sensor performance will not come easy. That is: they will not come cheap. As a result, for the EOS 7D Mk III to get on par with the D500 in these areas, Canon will need to invest in both the sensor and the AF system: in development as well as in engineering. This is expensive.

Personally I am a bit worried by the “Canon said to have scrapped at least one DSLR in development [CR2]“ rumor. I can see Canon’s marketing managers scrapping the 7D Mk III to avoid investing in a better AF system for the 7D Mk III, because that is specific for DSLRs and will have no spin-off to future mirrorless. And perhaps Canon even foresees that without a 7D Mk III, cropped action shooters will switch either to Canon’s FF bodies or to the cropped EOS “R-for-action-shooters” as soon as that one arrives.

I wish all moderators of this forum,all the posters and all the readers a Merry Christmas and a Happy and Healthy 2019.
My own wish for 2019 is that the new year 2019 will quickly bring clarity what Canon has in mind for cropped camera action photographers, as a successor to the 7D Mk II.
 
Aug 23, 2013
2,303
26
Bahia Brazil
Looking at the market, I see a large number of users expecting a highly capable 7D Mark III (like D500). If Canon considers this market big enough, then this camera will arrive at some point. Maybe in late 2019, or early 2020?
 

bichex

EOS M50
Dec 9, 2014
31
46
I am very interested in a 7D III. In several aspects the d500 is far superior. I have friends who have it and there really are differences beyond specifiations. Mainly in high ISOS and in AF. unfortunately I think canon can not answer, since you should be aware that a 7D III would sell like hot bread
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
7,950
1,336
Canada
I can see the 7D3 as an incremental improvement over the 7D2, but what I would really like to see is to have it come out as the first of the Canon high performance mirrorless cameras, something with no AFMA, stupid fast burst mode, and the best AF canon can put in it.

That said, I tend to skip releases, so “come on 7D4”!
 
Reactions: navastronia
If you read through the forums (all photo forums, not just CR) you will see the 7D2 has perhaps the widest range of opinions from love to hate. A large percentage of users, myself included, feel it is a terrible camera and difficult to get sharp pictures from. I bought one last year and sold it after the first serious outing because I could not get a clear picture to save my life. It's not that the focus point was in the wrong place, it's not that it was camera shake, it just looked hazy and fuzzy overall (like a cell phone picture enlarged too much). I had my beloved 5D4 body with me and switched to it on the exact same scene and instant sharpness. Review on the computer back home confirmed what I was seeing in camera screen - the 7D2 was garbage. A Rebel would have done better. I immediately sold the camera at a loss. As I said many others report similar problems, but there are another set of users who say the camera is great.

Before you all say it is user error and I didn't have the autofocus configured properly, let me say I was shooting in single shot mode with center point focus and have been shooting for three decades and have never had this issue with any other camera (film or digital). I wonder if there is a huge variance of quality from body to body? In either case, a 7D3 with these issues resolved is desperately needed (but not by me, I am sticking with my two 5D4 bodies).
 
Reactions: navastronia
Aug 23, 2013
2,303
26
Bahia Brazil
I can see the 7D3 as an incremental improvement over the 7D2, but what I would really like to see is to have it come out as the first of the Canon high performance mirrorless cameras, something with no AFMA, stupid fast burst mode, and the best AF canon can put in it.

That said, I tend to skip releases, so “come on 7D4”!
I also had a dream that Canon would make a Samsung NX1 type camera with 15 FPS and things like that ... o_OSo I woke up from the dream, and I remembered that Canon is a conservative company,:oops: and that the great NX1 actually was abandoned by Samsung, along with all its line of lenses ...:eek:
 
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Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
7,950
1,336
Canada
If you read through the forums (all photo forums, not just CR) you will see the 7D2 has perhaps the widest range of opinions from love to hate. A large percentage of users, myself included, feel it is a terrible camera and difficult to get sharp pictures from. I bought one last year and sold it after the first serious outing because I could not get a clear picture to save my life. It's not that the focus point was in the wrong place, it's not that it was camera shake, it just looked hazy and fuzzy overall (like a cell phone picture enlarged too much). I had my beloved 5D4 body with me and switched to it on the exact same scene and instant sharpness. Review on the computer back home confirmed what I was seeing in camera screen - the 7D2 was garbage. A Rebel would have done better. I immediately sold the camera at a loss. As I said many others report similar problems, but there are another set of users who say the camera is great.

Before you all say it is user error and I didn't have the autofocus configured properly, let me say I was shooting in single shot mode with center point focus and have been shooting for three decades and have never had this issue with any other camera (film or digital). I wonder if there is a huge variance of quality from body to body? In either case, a 7D3 with these issues resolved is desperately needed (but not by me, I am sticking with my two 5D4 bodies).
There were most definitely some 7D2 bodies sold that had that issue. There were many reports of people with a 7D2 that would not take a decent picture no matter what they did, returned it to Canon for service and/or swapped it for another unit, and had it work fine.

Of course, those with a crappy unit hated it (and said so loudly), yet at the same time, those with a good unit loved it and said so.

On a personal note, I had one of the early units and it worked fine (and still does). It is a great camera! One of my friends had one that sucked. We compared them head to head, and mine took better pictures. We AFMAd the same lens on both bodies and it made no difference, his was still crappy. (BTW, Focal reported that the lens was sharper on my camera than on his). He returned the unit, got another one, and the second one was fine.

So yes, there were crappy 7D2s out there, and I believe anyone who tried the basics and could not get it to work well.
 
Aug 1, 2017
314
178
If you read through the forums (all photo forums, not just CR) you will see the 7D2 has perhaps the widest range of opinions from love to hate. A large percentage of users, myself included, feel it is a terrible camera and difficult to get sharp pictures from. I bought one last year and sold it after the first serious outing because I could not get a clear picture to save my life. It's not that the focus point was in the wrong place, it's not that it was camera shake, it just looked hazy and fuzzy overall (like a cell phone picture enlarged too much). I had my beloved 5D4 body with me and switched to it on the exact same scene and instant sharpness. Review on the computer back home confirmed what I was seeing in camera screen - the 7D2 was garbage. A Rebel would have done better. I immediately sold the camera at a loss. As I said many others report similar problems, but there are another set of users who say the camera is great.

Before you all say it is user error and I didn't have the autofocus configured properly, let me say I was shooting in single shot mode with center point focus and have been shooting for three decades and have never had this issue with any other camera (film or digital). I wonder if there is a huge variance of quality from body to body? In either case, a 7D3 with these issues resolved is desperately needed (but not by me, I am sticking with my two 5D4 bodies).
If the camera was defective why not just return it. Why would you sell it for a loss?
 
Reactions: Michael Clark

AlanF

5DSR
Aug 16, 2012
5,159
2,083
20-24 mpx without an AA-filter and AF as good as the Nikon D500 would be enough for me.
 
Reactions: HankMD

Aussie shooter

@brett.guy.photography
Dec 6, 2016
316
256
There are more than a few of us hanging on this very question. If they don't bring out another 7d i honestly don't know what I will do.
 

haggie

EOS 80D
May 11, 2016
136
37
20-24 mpx without an AA-filter and AF as good as the Nikon D500 would be enough for me.
Yes, but I hope they improve it a bit. After all, the D500 is almost 3 years old also.
But I am a realist and acknowledge what some on this forum keep repeating: Canon in here to serve their own goals (i.e. make a profit), not to serve its customers with what they want. But still, this is the time of year of hope ......... :)
 
Reactions: navastronia

haggie

EOS 80D
May 11, 2016
136
37
There are more than a few of us hanging on this very question. If they don't bring out another 7d i honestly don't know what I will do.
The same here. My 7D Mk II will be 3 years old after next years air show season. So it would be fantastic for me if its successor would come then in the form of a capable DSLR, call it 7D Mk III.
If Canon does not introduce the 7D Mk III I will seriously look into other brands. I do not want to switch brand after almost 3 decades of buying Canon (2 A-1's, 2 T-90's and 16 lenses) but I too have seen the difference between the D500 and the 7D Mk II. For almost 2 years now, I see that in specific difficult situations the AF of the D500 is better and the images offer better properties for post-processing.
But on the other hand, I love the 100-400 II and I can occassionally borrow the 500mm f/4, which I think is fantastic. Hence my hope for the new year.
 

AlanF

5DSR
Aug 16, 2012
5,159
2,083
Because I waited too long to give it a good tryout.
Did the same with a Tamron 100-400mm hoping that the light weight would more than compensate for its poor IS, poor AF and resolution. Lesson is: try it out and send back immediately if no good.
 

AlanF

5DSR
Aug 16, 2012
5,159
2,083
Yes, but I hope they improve it a bit. After all, the D500 is almost 3 years old also.
But I am a realist and acknowledge what some on this forum keep repeating: Canon in here to serve their own goals (i.e. make a profit), not to serve its customers with what they want. But still, this is the time of year of hope ......... :)
What more do you actually want? IQ up to cropped 5DSR but with better DR at low iso and improved AF would be really significant for me and anything else a small plus.
 

haggie

EOS 80D
May 11, 2016
136
37
What more do you actually want? IQ up to cropped 5DSR but with better DR at low iso and improved AF would be really significant for me and anything else a small plus.
I wrote "Yes, but I hope they improve it a bit. After all, the D500 is almost 3 years old also." because in my mind I still have the image of Canon as a frontrunner in camera innovation and finding good compromises between 'proven technology" and improvements. Like you I "just" :) want major improvemtents in the sensor performance (DR and Noise) and AF-performance (in particular: initial acquisition, but in particular better tracking behavior in less favorable light and for subjects with less-than-ideal contrast). That would convince me to buy the 7D Mk III at once.
 

padam

EOS 7D MK II
Aug 26, 2015
541
191
They have continued with EF telephoto development, so new bodies will follow as well, I think it will come after the 1DX III, but the 90D will probably come earier.
 

dak723

EOS 6D MK II
Oct 26, 2013
1,141
434
There are more than a few of us hanging on this very question. If they don't bring out another 7d i honestly don't know what I will do.
Well, you could just continue taking great photos with the camera you have now. I really don't get the constant need to upgrade considering that all upgrades at this point are minor.
 
Reactions: Del Paso
Aug 1, 2017
314
178
Because I waited too long to give it a good tryout.
That's unfortunate. Sorry it didn't work out. Maybe I've just been lucky but mine still works great and I have a number of portfolio quality images that I've made with it. Presumably there are some manufacturing issues with the sensor or mirror assembly so 7D2 experience varies widely.

It's not a particularly good sensor. One of the earliest with DPAF. The AA filter is too strong but at the pixel level it still has a "grainy" look. That being said, it can take a lot of sharpening which offsets the strong AA. It's a camera with compromises but one that can still achieve pretty good results with long lenses if you're willing to put some effort into it. For anything else you're probably better off with a 80D or one of the M's. Not really fair to compare the 7D2 to a full frame sensor. No one is saying the IQ is comparable to the 5D4.

Not sure I'd be interested in a 7D3 but a modern sensor would make it a lot more attractive. The Sony IMX571 in the Fujifilm X-T3 would be a good choice. A 7D3 without DPAF but with speed and DR might be very successful vs the Nikons.
 
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navastronia

5D Classic
Aug 31, 2018
89
86
If you read through the forums (all photo forums, not just CR) you will see the 7D2 has perhaps the widest range of opinions from love to hate. A large percentage of users, myself included, feel it is a terrible camera and difficult to get sharp pictures from. I bought one last year and sold it after the first serious outing because I could not get a clear picture to save my life. It's not that the focus point was in the wrong place, it's not that it was camera shake, it just looked hazy and fuzzy overall (like a cell phone picture enlarged too much). I had my beloved 5D4 body with me and switched to it on the exact same scene and instant sharpness. Review on the computer back home confirmed what I was seeing in camera screen - the 7D2 was garbage. A Rebel would have done better.
That's how I felt about the 7D (mk1) I have. Everything I shot with the 7D, regardless of the glass, it was like I had a stocking over the lens. I used to shoot with that as well as a Rebel t4i, and the Rebel outshot the 7D every time - the clarity was head and shoulders above it.

Naturally, the 5D classic I use now shoots an image superior to the 7D as well as the t4i. I'd say I'd joined the Full Frame Cult if not for all this evidence that it produces better images, despite its age.