I got defeated :(

Nov 17, 2011
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Ian_of_glos said:
Dylan777 said:
CanonGuy said:
I am a 5d3 and 6d user. The bodies were due for an upgrade but I wasn't sold on 5d4/6d2. After taking a hard look at d850 and a7rii I finally ended up buying a 5d4 today :( Just couldn't make myself sell my huge lens collection and buy new ones :'(

I feel like I am defeated. But I am absolutely at the edge of my tolerence limit. if Canon doesn't step up the game, this is positively going to be my last Canon body. I bought 5d4 but I am not a happy camper.

Sorry I had to rant a little as I am too sad tonight lol. Now back to exploring my new toy

My friends are Wedding Pros, with 5K sq-ft studio in Orange County, California. After 20yrs plus with Canon they made a switch to Sony few months back. They now shooting with A9(6units), a7r II(2 units) and a7sII(2units) plus all the GM lenses and fast FE primes. According to them, best decision ever ;)
Thank you - it is always interesting to hear real life experiences.
What was their main reason for switching and, having used both systems, what do they consider to be the key advantages of the Sony system?

Silent shooting and Eye-AF/Face are the key features for them. They said exp-comp is no longer a guess, faster fps and much better AF tracking are huge plus. Also, something CR members don't like to talk about is DR/sensor :D

The big cons for them is still battery life. They use grip plus 2-4 batteries extras. They no longer own any Canon gear.
 
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ahsanford

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Aug 16, 2012
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anthonyd said:
You all just set the guy ablaze because he complained about the precious little brand we've all be spending our fortunes on and you just don't want to hear it. And on that note, I'm ready for the fires coming my way!

No fire for you, sir. I appreciate you sticking up for a fellow poster. But as Scyrene just said, the OP is not exactly a paradigm of positivity and respect. ::)

He's also gone on a number of rants about never giving Canon another dime because of sensor performance or spec list gripes. And then, when he needs to get a new body, he realizes that specs aren't everything and he stays in the fold.

But rather than tip his cap to Canon for the aspects of their value proposition that he didn't appreciate the value of, instead he climbs upon a soapbox, shakes his fist, and wishes he wasn't a slave to that compelling value proposition. Through all of this, Canon still wasn't listening to him yet still got his money.

Trolling is never warranted, but a healthy comeuppance for past deeds rendered most assuredly is. I say fie on his crocodile tears.

- A
 
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unfocused

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scyrene said:
anthonyd said:
...You all just set the guy ablaze because he complained about the precious little brand we've all be spending our fortunes on and you just don't want to hear it. And on that note, I'm ready for the fires coming my way!

Yawn... if someone posts the thousandth topic 'I'm gonna whine about some unspecified failing that Canon needs to address NOW' then they will be met with the response that deserves...

This summarizes the problem for me. Like most of the regulars here, I have plenty of complaints about Canon and I've voiced them on the forum -- prompting some criticism and some agreement. (I'd be happy to provide a list of what I would like to see improved, but that's not the point of this post)

What I don't want to hear about my "precious little brand" are rants that offer no context, no specificity and no examples of how those failings impact one's photography other than it bruises someone's tender little ego not to have the latest and greatest toy.
 
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Talys

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Look, the reason this is described as a "first world problem" is that there are a lot of people who would love to spend $3,500 on a camera body (including me!). It's very hard to be sympathetic to someone who seems to force themselves to buy a very expensive, professional camera body that they essentially know they're going to be unhappy with. That's like throwing money away.

I mean, if you want a Nikon, please go buy one, and I'll be happy for you. If you want a D850 combined with all of the things that make Canon a good system, you should wait for a future Canon body, or for Nikon to develop a whole bunch of lenses, or for a Sony to develop a bunch of lenses and a body that can actually be handled. If you want that today, sorry, it doesn't exist: pick your compromise or save your money and, hopefully, be happy with it.

At any rate, whichever $3,500 body is chosen, that won't be the limiting factor in producing award winning, magazine cover quality photography.
 
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Talys said:
Look, the reason this is described as a "first world problem" is that there are a lot of people who would love to spend $3,500 on a camera body (including me!). It's very hard to be sympathetic to someone who seems to force themselves to buy a very expensive, professional camera body that they essentially know they're going to be unhappy with. That's like throwing money away.

I mean, if you want a Nikon, please go buy one, and I'll be happy for you. If you want a D850 combined with all of the things that make Canon a good system, you should wait for a future Canon body, or for Nikon to develop a whole bunch of lenses, or for a Sony to develop a bunch of lenses and a body that can actually be handled. If you want that today, sorry, it doesn't exist: pick your compromise or save your money and, hopefully, be happy with it.

At any rate, whichever $3,500 body is chosen, that won't be the limiting factor in producing award winning, magazine cover quality photography.
Perfectly put
 
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Besisika

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anthonyd said:
You all just set the guy ablaze because he complained about the precious little brand we've all be spending our fortunes on and you just don't want to hear it. And on that note, I'm ready for the fires coming my way!
My friend calls it the syndrome of cheated husband. "Don't tell anything bad about my wife, I personally chose her; she is an angel. Can't you see it; your wife is b..ch".
The bottom line is, if you want to learn photography: go out and shoot, whatever gear you have. If you want to get hurt: come and troll at CR. You are going to get it.
Sometimes I am wondering "what gives people more happiness: taking photos or killing trolls?". A poll maybe?
 
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"My friend calls it the syndrome of cheated husband. "Don't tell anything bad about my wife, I personally chose her; she is an angel. Can't you see it; your wife is b..ch".
The bottom line is, if you want to learn photography: go out and shoot, whatever gear you have. If you want to get hurt: come and troll at CR. You are going to get it.
Sometimes I am wondering "what gives people more happiness: taking photos or killing trolls?". A poll maybe?"

Plus +++

What never ceases to amaze is why people just don't go out and buy whatever it is that satisfies them? Why buy something, anything, and then spend hours, days, or weeks complaining about what they just bought? Its nauseating! I wish I had that much extra energy . . .

Zen, a happy Canon shooter ;D
 
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Dec 11, 2015
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Don Haines said:
DaviSto said:
takesome1 said:
CanonGuy said:
.I shoot over 25 weddings each year and a single wedding pays me more than that. So yah I think I can afford to spend on things which I'm not a fan of.

With that kind of money I say use the money from three or four weddings and you can replace all your gear with gear that makes you happy.

The new equipment would not limit the dynamic range of your work as much and you would probably get more jobs.
You're right of course ... every bride's first question (or her mother's, at least) ... "How much DR have you got?"

I thought that the mother’s first question was “is he a DR.”

LOL! He was just a PA... But mother said ok as long as he's not an NP.
 
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Ozarker

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unfocused said:
tomscott said:
Jesus... what a first world problem to have...

Pull yourself together.

+1.

I don't know which is more ridiculous. That someone would spend $3,000 on a camera they don't want, or that they would be so self-absorbed that they feel compelled to post about it on a forum and expect sympathy.

Probably pre-ordered to boot.
 
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Ozarker

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CanonGuy said:
unfocused said:
tomscott said:
Jesus... what a first world problem to have...

Pull yourself together.

+1.

I don't know which is more ridiculous. That someone would spend $3,000 on a camera they don't want, or that they would be so self-absorbed that they feel compelled to post about it on a forum and expect sympathy.

I DO NOT NEED SYMPATHY FROM CANON FANS LIKE YOU. I am here to share my opinion in the hope that someone from Canon will see how their customers feel and will try to improve their product. And can you be a civilized person and not call someone 'self-absorbed' in a forum just because there is a difference of opinion? 3k is nothing to me. I shoot over 25 weddings each year and a single wedding pays me more than that. So yah I think I can afford to spend on things which I'm not a fan of.

You are hilarious. Send Canon a letter or email directly if what you want is for them to know what you think. This forum is probably the least effective way to do that. So yes, you do need sympathy. On the other hand... way to go! You showed them!!! Yay!!!!!
 
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Ozarker

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neuroanatomist said:
CanonGuy said:
I am here to share my opinion in the hope that someone from Canon will see how their customers feel and will try to improve their product.

Have you considered actually telling Canon —directly— how you feel? Write them. Call them. Posting in a forum that's completely independent from Canon, and 'hoping that someone from Canon will see how you feel' is like having 'I will win the lottery' as a retirement savings plan. Plus, you already told Canon how you really feel...by giving them $3K for a camera.

And if you actually did want Canon to read what you wrote, well...remember those grade school standardized tests where they presented you with a short paragraph and then had you pick the best title? I'm not sure how you did on those, but if, " I got defeated :(" is the best you can do here...I'm guessing you were a drag on your school's overall scoring.

But, wait...you didn't just say that you hope Canon will see how you feel, but how their customers feel. Looking at posts from people other than you, generally I think to the extent that Canon would learn anything from this thread (which, as we've established, is pretty damn unlikely), they'll learn that the 5DIV is a success.

So, well done...and I repeat: LOL. ::)

Well, on September 1st 2017 he swore he'd never give Canon another dime.

CanonGuy said:
Typical canon.... Thus very same attitude is what irritates me most. Reason why they won't see a dime from me again.

Then on October 23rd he bought a brand new 5D IV:

CanonGuy said:
I am a 5d3 and 6d user. The bodies were due for an upgrade but I wasn't sold on 5d4/6d2. After taking a hard look at d850 and a7rii I finally ended up buying a 5d4 today :( Just couldn't make myself sell my huge lens collection and buy new ones :'(

I feel like I am defeated. But I am absolutely at the edge of my tolerence limit. if Canon doesn't step up the game, this is positively going to be my last Canon body. I bought 5d4 but I am not a happy camper.

Sorry I had to rant a little as I am too sad tonight lol. Now back to exploring my new toy

If he can't take himself seriously, then why should we or Canon?
 
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pwp

Oct 25, 2010
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CanonGuy said:
I feel like I am defeated. But I am absolutely at the edge of my tolerance limit. if Canon doesn't step up the game, this is positively going to be my last Canon body. I bought 5d4 but I am not a happy camper.
Sorry I had to rant a little as I am too sad tonight lol. Now back to exploring my new toy
Just get on and enjoy your 5D4. I moved from a worn out 5D3 to 5D4 about a year ago and couldn't be happier. The 5D3 was good, but the 5D4 is a much better camera in so many well documented respects. You've just spent up, and there is absolutely no need for buyers regret. You've got yourself a great camera. I predict you'll stay with Canon.

-pw
 
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Ozarker

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pwp said:
CanonGuy said:
I feel like I am defeated. But I am absolutely at the edge of my tolerance limit. if Canon doesn't step up the game, this is positively going to be my last Canon body. I bought 5d4 but I am not a happy camper.
Sorry I had to rant a little as I am too sad tonight lol. Now back to exploring my new toy
Just get on and enjoy your 5D4. I moved from a worn out 5D3 to 5D4 about a year ago and couldn't be happier. The 5D3 was good, but the 5D4 is a much better camera in so many well documented respects. You've just spent up, and there is absolutely no need for buyers regret. You've got yourself a great camera. I predict you'll stay with Canon.

-pw

Wondering: Is the IQ and AF much better? I have a 5D III and I'm waiting on the 5D V if there ever is one. Just wondering how much improved AF and IQ are on the IV. Thanks!
 
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Jul 21, 2010
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CanonFanBoy said:
Wondering: Is the IQ and AF much better? I have a 5D III and I'm waiting on the 5D V if there ever is one. Just wondering how much improved AF and IQ are on the IV. Thanks!

For people who switched from a 5DIII to a 5DIV, the improvements in AF and IQ are very substantial. For people who decided not to switch from a 5DIII to a 5DIV, the improvements in AF and IQ are not very significant. ;)

I'd suggest thinking of it this way – if you feel that your photography is limited by the AF performance and/or IQ of the 5DIII, it's probably worth upgrading. Personally, I don't find the AF or the IQ of my 1D X to be limiting, which is why I didn't buy a 1D X II (and have no plans to, unless my 1D X irreparably breaks).
 
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ahsanford

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Aug 16, 2012
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neuroanatomist said:
CanonFanBoy said:
Wondering: Is the IQ and AF much better? I have a 5D III and I'm waiting on the 5D V if there ever is one. Just wondering how much improved AF and IQ are on the IV. Thanks!

For people who switched from a 5DIII to a 5DIV, the improvements in AF and IQ are very substantial. For people who decided not to switch from a 5DIII to a 5DIV, the improvements in AF and IQ are not very significant. ;)

I'd suggest thinking of it this way – if you feel that your photography is limited by the AF performance and/or IQ of the 5DIII, it's probably worth upgrading. Personally, I don't find the AF or the IQ of my 1D X to be limiting, which is why I didn't buy a 1D X II (and have no plans to, unless my 1D X irreparably breaks).

Exactly my situation. My 5D3 AF is not holding me back other than some flaky results I've had with off-center large aperture use with a 50L ::) and 35 Art ::) ::) ::). The 5D3 AF is fantastic for me otherwise.

In crude comparison terms, the 5D2 AF jumped from a 5/10 to a 9/10 on the 5D3 -- the AF literally went from being the 5D2's #1 liability to the 5D3's AF being nearly the best (it's 1DX-like after all) in one generation; the AF upgrade alone justified upgrading from the 5D2, IMHO.

I'm sure the 5D4 is better yet for general use (and all kinds of new tech bells/whistles beyond vanilla OVF use), but the major delta from iffy to rock solid has already happened in my book.

Full disclosure for my rating: I only use servo AF a handful of times a year and rarely if ever shoot at full 6 fps. My AF asks are solid coverage of the frame, convenience/flexibilty of changing points/clusters/locations, accuracy and consistency much much much more than asking it to predictively track Lionel Messi amongst a sea of defenders. Of course, your asks of your AF system may very well be different.

- A
 
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H. Jones

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ahsanford said:
neuroanatomist said:
CanonFanBoy said:
Wondering: Is the IQ and AF much better? I have a 5D III and I'm waiting on the 5D V if there ever is one. Just wondering how much improved AF and IQ are on the IV. Thanks!

For people who switched from a 5DIII to a 5DIV, the improvements in AF and IQ are very substantial. For people who decided not to switch from a 5DIII to a 5DIV, the improvements in AF and IQ are not very significant. ;)

I'd suggest thinking of it this way – if you feel that your photography is limited by the AF performance and/or IQ of the 5DIII, it's probably worth upgrading. Personally, I don't find the AF or the IQ of my 1D X to be limiting, which is why I didn't buy a 1D X II (and have no plans to, unless my 1D X irreparably breaks).

Exactly my situation. My 5D3 AF is not holding me back other than some flaky results I've had with off-center large aperture use with a 50L ::) and 35 Art ::) ::) ::). The 5D3 AF is fantastic for me otherwise.

In crude comparison terms, the 5D2 AF jumped from a 5/10 to a 9/10 on the 5D3 -- the AF literally went from being the 5D2's #1 liability to the 5D3's AF being nearly the best (it's 1DX-like after all) in one generation; the AF upgrade alone justified upgrading from the 5D2, IMHO.

I'm sure the 5D4 is better yet for general use (and all kinds of new tech bells/whistles beyond vanilla OVF use), but the major delta from iffy to rock solid has already happened in my book.

Full disclosure for my rating: I only use servo AF a handful of times a year and rarely if ever shoot at full 6 fps. My AF asks are solid coverage of the frame, convenience/flexibilty of changing points/clusters/locations, accuracy and consistency much much much more than asking it to predictively track Lionel Messi amongst a sea of defenders. Of course, your asks of your AF system may very well be different.

- A

Even as someone who uses servo AF and fast FPS constantly, I totally agree regarding the 5D3 vs. the 5D2. I've been using a 5D2 borrowed from my work's old spare pool gear for a few days while my 5D3 is at Canon for some repairs, and over the past few days the difference has been hugely noticeable, not from an image quality basis, but from an autofocus basis. I can totally use the 5D mark II to get pictures, don't get me wrong, but the focus system difference is striking. In comparison the 5D3 has made an excellent and 100% capable back-up to my 1Dx2, even though I do miss some of the even newer tech of the 1DX2, such as DPAF and the touchscreen.

I have definitely been giving a lot of thought to the 5D Mark IV, especially considering the refurbished are only $2300 at the moment, but it definitely seems like a sweet upgrade that's worth the jump. I would have preferred 8 or 9 FPS to 7, but in most situations where I truly need high FPS my 1DX2 more than gets that job done anyway.

That said, because the 5D3 is such a capable camera, I doubt I'll ever really sell it. Would rather have three fully-capable cameras than two, so in that sense I think Canon had the right idea in their upgrades for the 5D Mark IV; sensor tech/dynamic range, some focus tech, Wi-Fi, resolution, etc, were all excellent choices for an upgrade.
 
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Ozarker

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H. Jones said:
ahsanford said:
neuroanatomist said:
CanonFanBoy said:
Wondering: Is the IQ and AF much better? I have a 5D III and I'm waiting on the 5D V if there ever is one. Just wondering how much improved AF and IQ are on the IV. Thanks!

For people who switched from a 5DIII to a 5DIV, the improvements in AF and IQ are very substantial. For people who decided not to switch from a 5DIII to a 5DIV, the improvements in AF and IQ are not very significant. ;)

I'd suggest thinking of it this way – if you feel that your photography is limited by the AF performance and/or IQ of the 5DIII, it's probably worth upgrading. Personally, I don't find the AF or the IQ of my 1D X to be limiting, which is why I didn't buy a 1D X II (and have no plans to, unless my 1D X irreparably breaks).

Exactly my situation. My 5D3 AF is not holding me back other than some flaky results I've had with off-center large aperture use with a 50L ::) and 35 Art ::) ::) ::). The 5D3 AF is fantastic for me otherwise.

In crude comparison terms, the 5D2 AF jumped from a 5/10 to a 9/10 on the 5D3 -- the AF literally went from being the 5D2's #1 liability to the 5D3's AF being nearly the best (it's 1DX-like after all) in one generation; the AF upgrade alone justified upgrading from the 5D2, IMHO.

I'm sure the 5D4 is better yet for general use (and all kinds of new tech bells/whistles beyond vanilla OVF use), but the major delta from iffy to rock solid has already happened in my book.

Full disclosure for my rating: I only use servo AF a handful of times a year and rarely if ever shoot at full 6 fps. My AF asks are solid coverage of the frame, convenience/flexibilty of changing points/clusters/locations, accuracy and consistency much much much more than asking it to predictively track Lionel Messi amongst a sea of defenders. Of course, your asks of your AF system may very well be different.

- A

Even as someone who uses servo AF and fast FPS constantly, I totally agree regarding the 5D3 vs. the 5D2. I've been using a 5D2 borrowed from my work's old spare pool gear for a few days while my 5D3 is at Canon for some repairs, and over the past few days the difference has been hugely noticeable, not from an image quality basis, but from an autofocus basis. I can totally use the 5D mark II to get pictures, don't get me wrong, but the focus system difference is striking. In comparison the 5D3 has made an excellent and 100% capable back-up to my 1Dx2, even though I do miss some of the even newer tech of the 1DX2, such as DPAF and the touchscreen.

I have definitely been giving a lot of thought to the 5D Mark IV, especially considering the refurbished are only $2300 at the moment, but it definitely seems like a sweet upgrade that's worth the jump. I would have preferred 8 or 9 FPS to 7, but in most situations where I truly need high FPS my 1DX2 more than gets that job done anyway.

That said, because the 5D3 is such a capable camera, I doubt I'll ever really sell it. Would rather have three fully-capable cameras than two, so in that sense I think Canon had the right idea in their upgrades for the 5D Mark IV; sensor tech/dynamic range, some focus tech, Wi-Fi, resolution, etc, were all excellent choices for an upgrade.

That's all good to read and it bodes well for what the 5D V will be. There is no way in the world the 5D mark III is holding me back. It is a lot of camera. Even if I upgrade during the next model rotation I don't think I'll ever sell my Mark III.
 
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Dec 11, 2015
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CanonFanBoy said:
That's all good to read and it bodes well for what the 5D V will be. There is no way in the world the 5D mark III is holding me back. It is a lot of camera. Even if I upgrade during the next model rotation I don't think I'll ever sell my Mark III.

Don't tell this anyone on DPR! :) Everybody must jump ship ASAP LOL.
 
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