Industry News: Leica announces the M10 Monochrom

slclick

135L
Dec 17, 2013
3,877
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Yeah,but for the Canon $$$ lenses, you are gonna really be able to reach out and "touch" someone with them...LONG expensive tele lenses.

This $13K one I'm talking about is like a 90mm Leica lens.

Looks beautiful, don't get me wrong, but I don't think it is in the same price league for type of lens you're talking about Canon putting out....

Again, just my observations...

C
like I said different scale, never said just price ;)
 
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Berowne

... they sparkle still the right Promethean fire.
Jun 7, 2014
275
126
Plus one of the main new lenses for it...I think the fast 90mm is over $13K.

:O
It is not one but two lenses: the 1.25/75mm Noctilux and the new 1.5/90mm Summilux, my local Leica-Dealer offers them for 11.900 €.

Cayenne, you should remember, that this can be the price-range of contemporary highly corrected fast primes. The Nikkor-Z 58mm/0.95 is offered by my local Everything-Dealer for 8999 €. (given the notion, that only very few of these lenses are on the market, my guess is that this is a Dumping-Price).

And second, it was Canon who started the "ultra-fast primes" race, not Leica with the Canon 50mm f/0.95 from 1961. And this was BTW a Rangefinder-lens for the Canon 7 camera. One of the many Canon-Rangefinder Cameras, which was also introduced in 1961. It can be modified with an M-Mount and you can use it with a modern Leica M (photo stolen from Steve Huff). Prices are moderate (2000 - 2500 €).

Canon 7 (Canon Camera Museum)
Canon 50mm f/0.95 (Canon Camera Museum)

R0000079.jpg
 

Eldar

EOS 5D MK IV
Jan 14, 2013
3,250
7
www.flickr.com
I believe the only way you can look at these specialized Leica lenses is the way you look at watches. Why pay $25k for an IWC, when you can get a rock solid Seiko for 1/10th of the price? In these cases, you pay for quality, exclusivity and label. It is a bit like buying one of the limited editions of a Leica camera or lens, which may cost you 2-3 times the camera and lens they are based on. In my view total rubbish, but these collector´s items has shown to increase in price, so it has nothing to do with a photographer´s priorities.
I have the APO90 Summicron f/2.0, which is a fantastic lens, compared to everything else I have, including Otus 85. This lens is still expensive, but you get almost 3 for the price of the Summilux. I have not tried the summilux, but I seriously doubt I will see much improvement.
 

Del Paso

M3 Singlestroke
Aug 9, 2018
716
759
I recall the time when, as a proud Nikon F2 owner, I bought a used Leica M5 with 4 lenses, dirt cheap!
Then, after a vacation in France, I checked the Kodachromes (yes, I'm that old!).
Next day, I went to the local dealer, sold the F 2 (Greatest SLR ever), all my Nikkors, to buy a Leicaflex SL :love:with 28, 50 and Apo 180mm.Later on came lenses from 21 to 560 mm...M and R.
The Nikon lenses had no chance compared to the Summicrons, Summilux, Elmarits & co., with the exception of the R 28 mm, which is quite weak.
Also, mechanically speaking, the Nikkors WERE poorly made, in comparison.
In the meantime, Japanese lensmakers have tremendously improved the quality of their production, and yet...
As to Leica, the later SLRs (R 4, R 5 etc...) lagged behind the Canons and Nikons in features and quality.
But the lenses are still a world apart, and the M remains a wonderful camera.
I'd suggest that before bashing the Monochrome for instance, you enter a Leica store to play with it for a few minutes, the change your mind, and rob the next bank!;)
 

Berowne

... they sparkle still the right Promethean fire.
Jun 7, 2014
275
126
Del Paso, the SL is a wonderful camera, such a bright viewfinder. I love mine and have taken thousand of slides with it (nearly all with a 90/2.8 Elmarit). But i am not longer doing analog photos. After the end of Kodakchrome, i was increasingly dissapointed by the quality of the development of slide films and i did not want to make E-6 laboratory work by my own, too difficult, too expensive. Now in the end, i am absolutely happy with the 6D & 85 1.4 IS, it is an ideal combo. And honestly the digital SL & the new 90mm APO-Cron is way too expensive for me.

Re the Monochrom, one should remember, that there are very few alternatives. The only one I know is the Monochrome-Back for Phase-One, my local dealer offers a XF with the 150 MP Achromat for only 52.000 € and you have to wait for three months. I am realy curious about the result of the new M, considering, that a Bayer-Filter in fact reduces the 20 MP of my 6D to poor 5 MP. What luck, that nobody knows it! :)
 

danski0224

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 24, 2011
1,099
8
Re the Monochrom, one should remember, that there are very few alternatives. The only one I know is the Monochrome-Back for Phase-One, my local dealer offers a XF with the 150 MP Achromat for only 52.000 € and you have to wait for three months. I am realy curious about the result of the new M, considering, that a Bayer-Filter in fact reduces the 20 MP of my 6D to poor 5 MP. What luck, that nobody knows it! :)

Sigma Foveon or Quattro cameras lack a Bayer color filter array and excel at monochrome.

The interchangeable lens Sigma digital cameras can do full spectrum after removing the dust filter (hot mirror). With the exception of the SD9, the dust filters come out without tools. They are fragile, and some model replacements are no longer available.

The sdQuattro is the only interchangeable lens version with live view, and the live view can be configured to display a monochrome image.

These cameras are not without some shortcomings, but it is certainly a much lower cost alternative choice.
 

slclick

135L
Dec 17, 2013
3,877
1,679
Sigma Foveon or Quattro cameras lack a Bayer color filter array and excel at monochrome.

The interchangeable lens Sigma digital cameras can do full spectrum after removing the dust filter (hot mirror). With the exception of the SD9, the dust filters come out without tools. They are fragile, and some model replacements are no longer available.

The sdQuattro is the only interchangeable lens version with live view, and the live view can be configured to display a monochrome image.

These cameras are not without some shortcomings, but it is certainly a much lower cost alternative choice.
I would own a Quattro if it were not for the horrid ergonomics. I do not mind how slow it is, the strange button placement or lack of high iso use. It would be a 2nd body purely for artistic and landscape shooting. But that grip!
 

danski0224

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 24, 2011
1,099
8
Which Quattro (or other sensor version)? Fixed lens (dp) or mirrorless interchangeable lens camera (sd)?

Sigma has alternated between sd/SD and dp/DP.

I do not have a dp series Quattro, however I think the sd Quattro has fantastic ergonomics.

People that actually use the dp series Quattros (vs look at them) seem to love them.
 

slclick

135L
Dec 17, 2013
3,877
1,679
SD Quattro. I have held one, not used one. Also, ergonomics are incredibly subjective and personal. I am intrigued by the DP series yet they are such a niche product and if I was spending on specialized cameras as such to supplement my standard gear I might as well be buying into the Leica ecosphere as primary! Had to circle back to the original post ;)
 

Berowne

... they sparkle still the right Promethean fire.
Jun 7, 2014
275
126
The problem with the Sigma quattro is the SA-mount (44mm flange distance), guess it will not survive. The Foveon-Technology is nevertheless promising, perhaps we will see it again within the L-Mount-Alliance.
 
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slclick

135L
Dec 17, 2013
3,877
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The problem with the Sigma quattro is the SA-mount (44mm flange distance), guess it will not survive. The Foveon-Technology is nevertheless promising, perhaps we will see it again within the L-Mount-Alliance.
I would like to test it out with the hand grip, both standard and large sized. However there are no shops in 700+ miles who carry Sigma! Might have to do an Amazon Prime buy just to play with one. Ugh nevermind, no viewfinder and that modular add on is larger than the body.
 
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Del Paso

M3 Singlestroke
Aug 9, 2018
716
759
Del Paso, the SL is a wonderful camera, such a bright viewfinder. I love mine and have taken thousand of slides with it (nearly all with a 90/2.8 Elmarit). But i am not longer doing analog photos. After the end of Kodakchrome, i was increasingly dissapointed by the quality of the development of slide films and i did not want to make E-6 laboratory work by my own, too difficult, too expensive. Now in the end, i am absolutely happy with the 6D & 85 1.4 IS, it is an ideal combo. And honestly the digital SL & the new 90mm APO-Cron is way too expensive for me.

Re the Monochrom, one should remember, that there are very few alternatives. The only one I know is the Monochrome-Back for Phase-One, my local dealer offers a XF with the 150 MP Achromat for only 52.000 € and you have to wait for three months. I am realy curious about the result of the new M, considering, that a Bayer-Filter in fact reduces the 20 MP of my 6D to poor 5 MP. What luck, that nobody knows it! :)
Hi Berowne!
Same for me, the end of Kodachrome and Ektachrome meant for me too the end of argentic photography .
Still in love with the SL and SL 2 Mot, but the new ones are too expensive for me as well.
My new favorite combo is the EOS 5 DIV and 1,4/85 IS... ;) plus M 240 and Summilux Asph.35.
But I was heavily drooling in the Leica store on the new SL 2 :love:, some day...
 

danski0224

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 24, 2011
1,099
8
SD Quattro. I have held one, not used one. Also, ergonomics are incredibly subjective and personal. I am intrigued by the DP series yet they are such a niche product and if I was spending on specialized cameras as such to supplement my standard gear I might as well be buying into the Leica ecosphere as primary! Had to circle back to the original post ;)
A sdQ and a few Global Vision lenses can be had for less than just the Leica camera alone. Same goes for the SD1M (the SD1M has been officially discontinued by Sigma).

The set of DP cameras can also be had for less than just the Leica camera.

It may not be the same, but the entry fee is more reasonable. As much as part of me would like the Leica, I don't see it happening.
 

danski0224

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 24, 2011
1,099
8
The problem with the Sigma quattro is the SA-mount (44mm flange distance), guess it will not survive. The Foveon-Technology is nevertheless promising, perhaps we will see it again within the L-Mount-Alliance.
Sigma is no longer producing SA mount camera bodies.

The fp is a video-centric camera with a Bayer based sensor, L mount.

There is an upcoming 1:1:1 Foveon "full frame" camera that is supposed to be released in 2020, also with an L mount. The 2019 release was postponed.
 
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StoicalEtcher

EOS RP
Jan 3, 2018
257
161
Yorkshire
I hope they're launching with a complete range of B+W lenses, otherwise this will be doomed to failure!
Haven't had a chance to visit my dealer yet and check it out, but knowing Leica's track record, I suspect they will be producing Black and Silver lenses, rather than Black and White ones.. ;) ;)
 
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slclick

135L
Dec 17, 2013
3,877
1,679
A sdQ and a few Global Vision lenses can be had for less than just the Leica camera alone. Same goes for the SD1M (the SD1M has been officially discontinued by Sigma).

The set of DP cameras can also be had for less than just the Leica camera.

It may not be the same, but the entry fee is more reasonable. As much as part of me would like the Leica, I don't see it happening.
Thanks. I was referring to it being my 2nd body+ glass in addition to my Canon setup. Therefore all total as much or more than a nice Leica kit.
 

justaCanonuser

Grab your camera, go out and shoot!
Feb 12, 2014
543
363
Frankfurt, Germany
Indeed, they've been doing so since the 1950s, when the Leica M 3 was introduced.
Yup, plus Canon's and Nikon's rangefinders produced in the later 1950s and 1960s, e.g. my Canon 7 has a parallax-correcting viewfinder. Besides all the sarcasm here, the new Leica M10 surely is a wonderfully handcrafted camera able to produce beautiful b&w images, but indeed only for a small market (they know that in Wetzlar, and Leica is profitable today, they survived their crisis). Btw such rangefinders with that fine optomechanics, produced by Canon or Nikon again, wouldn't be cheap cameras today, I guess. They weren't back in the great days of rangefinders, because their production is quite complex.
 
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justaCanonuser

Grab your camera, go out and shoot!
Feb 12, 2014
543
363
Frankfurt, Germany
Rangefinder focusing cameras like the Leica M cameras have a bright patch in the center of the view finder ...
I found this one on http://leicaphilia.com/how-a-rangefinder-works/. The two red beams produce together the shifting image in the central rangefinder patch in the viewfinder: if both images overlap, your motive is in focus. To achieve that, the lens with the blue arrows on the right side is shifted, it is mechanically coupled by a sort of pin with the lens and its focusing ring. The yellow beam indicates how the frame is mirrored in the viewfinder window, and this one here is parallax controlled (blue double arrow in the middle). This requires quite sophisticated mechanics. Btw modern viewfinders adapt the frame automatically to the lens attached (my New Mamiya 6 from the 1990s has this feature), with older viewfinders like the Canon 7 you have to select the fitting frame manually. If you are well trained to use a mechanical focusing rangefinder, you can shoot street in a flow and get quite reliable in-focus results.
rangefinder-1.jpg
 
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