Industry News: Sony Introduces the High-resolution A7R IV with World’s First 61.0 MP Back-illuminated, Full-frame Image Sensor

sdz

EOS RP
Sep 13, 2016
209
108
Pittsburgh, PA
snip....

I give canon 5 years before they pull out of camera development. The writing is on the wall, especially if they have no desire to make class leading products. at that end, whats the point?
Canon sensor technology lags behind Sony's. This is one area in which Canon is lacking. Are there any other areas?

Crickets!

Canon may find it difficult to manufacture sensors that rival's Sony's. This need not be a matter of desire. The cause is economic. Canon currently lacks the competitive advantages Sony enjoys with its sensor business. One would need a true "all things being equal" clause to claim that Canon lacks the desire to produce class leading cameras. But, things are unequal. Canon is conservative. It is not complacent and incompetent.

Sensible persons would hope that Canon can improve the technology in its sensors and in the making of its sensors. There are few benefits for consumers when one company has a monopoly in a key component.

That said, I doubt Canon would abandon its camera development business. Why would it? What may happen is Canon may choose to use Sony sensors in its FF cameras. Why would it make this choice? A key reason: The costs of developing sensors could become so great and Sony's advantages so significant that competing with Sony in processor development would be uneconomic for Canon -- which is to say, unprofitable. If that point were to come, Canon would act irrationally if it attempted to compete with Sony. This situation is common. In the past, DEC, Motorola and HP abandoned computer processor development. It is not as though they failed to produce innovative products. They did. Rather, the economics of the situation favored Intel because Intel produced processors for a commodity product, personal computers. Intel had economies of scale the others lacked. It had the massive revenue stream needed to build fabs, to take risks, etc. Intel became the leading oligopoly provider of CPUs.

Sony, thanks to the expertise in and income from its cell phone businesses, now has a competitive advantage with respect to Canon, Nikon and other sensor chip makers. It remains to be seen whether Sony can translate this advantage into market share in full frame cameras. It could, but consumers find system switches costly. It also remains to be seen if Canon can improve its sensors to a degree needed to compete with Sony as an equal -- if only to preserve the expertise it has gained over the last half-century and to prevent Sony from becoming a monopoly provider of image sensors for FF and ASP-C cameras. Monopolies supress innovation.

Finally, Canon sensors continue to produce high-quality images in its cameras. We need to remind ourselves of this fact. Sony has not made Canon cameras obsolete. Camera sensors are a mature technology. The leader and the led are not so different that using Canon cameras is irrational. But, Sony is the leader. That's a fact.
 
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neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,327
1,681
It's pretty obvious that you are only interested in enforcing your viewpoint on everyone else in this forum and couldn't care less what is going on in the "real world".
So in your world, Canon ‘needed to upgrade their sensors’ because ‘they were behind’. And you think that’s the real world? LOL.

I’d just like people to be aware of the facts, and ideally be able to use those facts as a basis for logical deduction. I suppose that’s expecting too much from some people here.
 

CDR

Feb 6, 2019
2
0
I think that these Sony improvements only help's raise the bar for all - as a wildlife hobbyist I can't justify switching systems just as and when somebody gets an advantage - I have been shooting Canon since the Canon 300D with DSLR's right through to a 1DX (second hand) and now on an EOS R. What is 100% clear to me is mirrorless is the future and whilst the R has been lambasted it is a sleeper - its much, much better than just the tech specs but has limitations. Having used for a while what would I want - just a mirrorless FF 7D11 replacement with a decent crop, IBIS and better tracking speed and especially faster EVF refresh rates but cheaper than a 1D replacement. The way that the AF accuracy of my R has revitalized some of my lenses and the tracking capability for stills / video (with decent contrast) is actually superb and the DR on what is really the 5D4 sensor is really very good!

People say no Canon leading-edge recent technologies - what about DPAF which was the first to allow eye tracking on video and still has the best / most natural way of changing focus? And of course, the new R mount is a big change which I believe will bring big advantages to weight/length of longer lenses ahead - check out 70-200 2.8 as an example. I am sure the next bodies will have synchronized IBIS included etc. but I think more importantly Canon should look to reduce its model spread and extend life through firmware updates rather than restricting access to features - but that I think will be unlikely..

However at the end of the day it's much more about the subject / framing / lighting and the moment than the tech which people keep forgetting - after all some of my best shots to this day were taken with a 30D and Sigma 100-300 F4 (right place right time).
 

Timedog

EOS R
Aug 31, 2018
42
26
Not super excited about 60+ MP. At that pixel density you're just dealing with huge file sizes, diffraction limits, and optics limits. I mean, I have the RF 50mm which is insane at 30mp on my EOS R, but I doubt I'll get enough out of doubling the MP to really care?

Seems like the areas where super high MP is needed are also areas where you use small apertures (landscape, macro), so you're not even seeing the full benefit of that extra detail due to diffraction limited aperture.
 

ozturert

EOS T7i
Jan 16, 2019
86
68
F4 or even F2.8 lenses can’t generate artistic bokeh effect. Period. They are only good if the purpose is to take snapshot with everything clear and no emphasized main focus in the photo. Those everything clear snapshot photos, taken by F4 or even F2.8 lenses, will not have popup effect which separating main focus/object from backgrounds, as those taken by F2, F1.4, or F1.2 pro lenses.

To make artistic photography, larger aperture lenses are the must.
Artistic photography = Blurred background? Really?
 
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ozturert

EOS T7i
Jan 16, 2019
86
68
Yes, I have to admit I've been looking at these. Currently I used a 7D mkII and 100-400mm f4.5-5.6 L IS II as my main walk around set up, plus a number of other lenses and bodies. The 200-600mm f6.3 looks amazing. The internal zoom is the main feature, because in practise it's almost impossible to zoom in an out when something like a flying bird comes closer than expected. It seems sharp at 600mm, and there are other little features like the tabs either side of the lens for carrying it. This A7R IV gives 26.2mp in crop mode and it gives the buffer 3x the limit. With the high resolution EVF this is going to make an incredible portable wildlife set up.

I'd like to think Canon were going to match this because I'm very invested in the system, for instance I have 7 Canon fit macro lenses. However, there seems no good reason to think that Canon are going to introduce something competitive in the next few years. Like yourself 10k+ lenses are out of the question, not just on price, but on portability.
I think A7R IV's buffer decreases considerably in APS-C mode, like to 3 seconds only. Don't know why, I'd expect an increase.
 

caffetin

EOS M50
Apr 20, 2019
35
12
I switched to an a7r iii from a 1Dx II last year and after 18 years of Canon "1" bodies. I could never go back. It's the best thing that ever happened to me. I can do.thjngs I never thought possible before and at half the price, half the weight and with 99% AF accuracy and lot more DR.
I don't do wild life but I have shot birds in flight just for fun and thos thing doesn't let go of the subject. Perfect AF every time. Rent one and try it for a few days. You willrnever go back. Just my opinion. Cheers!
lucky you
 

AlanF

Everyone sits in the prison of his own ideas. A E
Aug 16, 2012
5,228
2,234
Not super excited about 60+ MP. At that pixel density you're just dealing with huge file sizes, diffraction limits, and optics limits. I mean, I have the RF 50mm which is insane at 30mp on my EOS R, but I doubt I'll get enough out of doubling the MP to really care?

Seems like the areas where super high MP is needed are also areas where you use small apertures (landscape, macro), so you're not even seeing the full benefit of that extra detail due to diffraction limited aperture.
They said the same about the slightly lower pixel density 5DS and 5DSR. My 5DSR really beats my 5DIV for the fine detail I can get - it's like having 30% more reach, and all of my lenses are up to it. You don't have to care about increasing pixel density, and I respect that. But, int turn you should appreciate that there are those who do want crop levels of detail on an FF, especially nature photographers.
 
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djack41

EOS 80D
Jul 12, 2014
133
74
Sony's aggressive pace is a nightmare for Canon. Here is why:

(July 17) Nikkei reports that Canon's profit is likely to slide 40% on European slowdown:

Canon's operating profit is on track to sink 40% this year to slightly over 200 billion yen ($1.85 billion), Nikkei has learned, amid a slowing European economy and slumping chip market.
The shrinking camera market continues to hurt Canon. Deliveries of digital cameras worldwide tumbled 24% on the year during the first five months of 2019, according to the Camera & Imaging Products Association, based in Tokyo. Sales of Canon's single-lens reflex camera, a high-margin product, have declined in China and elsewhere.
For the second half, the company aims to expand revenue by rolling out new offerings such as additional lenses for the popular mirrorless cameras.


Read more: https://photorumors.com/2019/07/17/report-canons-profit-is-likely-to-slide-40/#ixzz5u1Rg4qXK
 

Kit.

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 25, 2011
1,089
518

Jasonmc89

EOS 80D + 100-400mm mkii
Feb 7, 2019
106
79
UK
Wow, this does sound very impressive!

If Canon were to match the readout specs and performance of this camera, even with 40MP, there’d be a lot of happy Canon fans.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,327
1,681
Sony's aggressive pace is a nightmare for Canon. Here is why:

(July 17) Nikkei reports that Canon's profit is likely to slide 40% on European slowdown:
Sony’s latest IR presentation forecasts a 45% drop in net income for FY19. So yeah, your logic makes sense. :rolleyes:

But, credit where credit is due — at least you’re consistent in your illogical forum trolling. Slow clap for you.
 

ken

Engineer, snapper of photos, player of banjos
Aug 8, 2016
81
65
Huntsville, AL
F4 or even F2.8 lenses can’t generate artistic bokeh effect. Period. They are only good if the purpose is to take snapshot with everything clear and no emphasized main focus in the photo. Those everything clear snapshot photos, taken by F4 or even F2.8 lenses, will not have popup effect which separating main focus/object from backgrounds, as those taken by F2, F1.4, or F1.2 pro lenses.

To make artistic photography, larger aperture lenses are the must.
So landscape photography doesn't qualify as art?
 

6degrees

RF 85mm F1.2
Sep 6, 2018
78
57
So landscape photography doesn't qualify as art?
Sure qualified. Even iPhone’s photos can be qualified, :). Giving that fact, why do we care about pro cameras and lenses?
 
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RobbieHat

EOS M50
Feb 4, 2015
36
29
54
Rocklin, CA/The Sea Ranch, CA
Wait...what? Canon is "lagging" in their bodies but it "has been too many years since the last release" that you use or would buy. So, if you haven't bought or used a new Canon body for years on what authority are you claiming they are "lagging?"


I shoot with a 5DSR since it was first released. I also have an older 5D Mark III and a lot of Canon glass. I have been shooting with Canon for over 20 years and upgraded my bodies when I felt like there was enough progress to warrant the investment. I am also a CPS member and loyal Canon advocate on a number of forums.

The 5DSR is a great camera, but this new Sony beats it in almost every meaningful technical manner. There are always differences in ergonomics, weather sealing, user interface and service support that make me want to stay with Canon, but this is an incredibly compelling offering from Sony and I am just acknowledging that.

My point is not to whine and have someone talk me out of switching (I will make my own decision and live with the consequences) but to point out on a Canon rumors forum that posted a Sony release notice that Canon has lost focus on my needs (not anyone elses). Interesting that my original post received 10 likes and your critique quite a few less. Apparently there are other like minded people on this forum that might be feeling the same frustration.

What do you shoot with and how long have you been a Canon shooter? It is interesting that you are so willing to shout anyone down that raises anything slightly anti-Canon. We are not all sycophants to Canon on this forum. At least I don't think that is the price of entry to be a member. Some of us have the ability to independently think and evaluate.
 
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