Industry News: Sony Introduces the High-resolution A7R IV with World’s First 61.0 MP Back-illuminated, Full-frame Image Sensor

RobbieHat

EOS M50
Feb 4, 2015
40
31
54
Rocklin, CA/The Sea Ranch, CA
Sony are making it tough. Canon have one more year for me to at least catchup if not surpass in some areas. The DR gap is getting too large to ignore for my landscape and Astro work. The focus system, IBIS, eye detect and focus coverage gap is also getting too great to ignore for my wildlife work. I don’t currently care about video.

Items keeping me in the Canon camp are down to lenses (I have over 20k invested in EF that is now at risk due to RF), weather sealing, handling, menu system/learning curve and CPS.

It guts me that Canon has thrown away 2019 in my book. All the while Sony has been catching up in lenses and distancing themselves in the other key areas. Canon, I am rooting for you but it is time to show the goods.
 

AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,651
2,885
You could have Nikon 500 5.6PF with D500 and D850.
Nikon does have some real pluses. But, it does have some serious minuses. Firstly, the 500/5.6 is back ordered if you want it, and secondly, my most used lens is the 100-400mm zoom and Nikon has no acceptable for me equivalent. The Sony knock-off 100-400mm is the nearest equivalent. During the meanwhile, I’ll soldier on with the 5DSR, it still for most of what I do will not be significantly outclassed by the Sony, but I would love to have that A9 AF, 10 fps and buffer, and to be able to switch to an APS-C mode for smaller files.
 

drama

I'm New Here
Sep 1, 2016
18
38
It guts me that Canon has thrown away 2019 in my book. All the while Sony has been catching up in lenses and distancing themselves in the other key areas. Canon, I am rooting for you but it is time to show the goods.
You work in landscape, astro and nature photography? Tell us your secrets, oh wise one!
Canon have hardly "thrown away" 2019. They've announced and released a ton of RF mount lenses in readiness for a new body, and we're only six months in. If you don't want to wait, Sony just announced a 60mpx 10fps camera for your nature/astro/landscape fast moving work. I guess you're the target market! Either way, I'm sure Canon will heed your demands and immediately release all their R&D for fear of you leaving.
 

dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,387
823
i am longing for a native not 10k+ wildlife lens and for an up to date good high iso camera body with good reach (high mp) that can handle moving subjects.
The 5Ds and 5Dsr are available at killer prices right now, so low that you could reasonably buy one just to hold you over until Canon releases its high resolution R. The big question is whether or not the high rez R will also be a fast shooter (8-10 fps).

While I tip my hat to Sony on taking the resolution title, 50mp vs 61mp is not going to make a large difference in ability to crop. You'll get the usual chorus that the 5Ds/sr are not "high ISO bodies" but I can post samples all day long to objectively prove the opposite. Right now there's not even 1ev of difference at high ISO between the best and worst shipping FF sensors. If you look at per pixel noise the 5Ds/sr is in the lower half of that bunch. Total image noise, the upper half and I would argue near the top.

The big differences are 10 vs 5 fps, and AF. Having spent a lot of stick time with an 8 fps and a 5 fps body side-by-side, my desire for fps has cooled. I noticed no loss in my ability to capture the decisive moment. That may be related to my shooting style. If you truly need a higher frame rate and high resolution, you have to wait and see what Canon's high resolution R is like. Or go with a D850 or A7R IV.

With regard to AF: I have had stick time on an A9 and came away with mixed feelings about the AF. Intelligent tracking is cool, but when it misses it misses for a significant gap and there's little you can do until it finds its footing again. With a 5Ds it's up to me to keep an AF point on the target. But as long as I do the AF is fast and confident with perhaps a single off frame here or there.

There is no perfect camera and if the A7R IV squarely addresses your desires then go for it. If it doesn't quite hit the mark then see what Canon comes up with in the next iteration of R bodies, perhaps with a 5Ds/sr to hold you over.

One note: Sony is saying the A7R IV has better weather sealing. They've said this with every generation. Their repeat failures here is one of the things that has kept me from giving Sony a shot. If you shoot in anything other than dry weather, I would caution you to wait and see if the A7R IV can actually resist rain and snow. I was torn between the 5Ds and the A7R III right up until the test came out that showed the A7R III leaking like a submarine screen door. For me that killed Sony as a choice regardless of any other technology or consideration. It's ridiculous that Sony can't get this right.

Last time rain hit I was shooting the 5Ds + 16-35 f/4L IS and I didn't even pause or hesitate, I just kept hiking and shooting.
 
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tron

EOS 5D SR
Nov 8, 2011
4,031
338
Nikon does have some real pluses. But, it does have some serious minuses. Firstly, the 500/5.6 is back ordered if you want it, and secondly, my most used lens is the 100-400mm zoom and Nikon has no acceptable for me equivalent. The Sony knock-off 100-400mm is the nearest equivalent. During the meanwhile, I’ll soldier on with the 5DSR, it still for most of what I do will not be significantly outclassed by the Sony, but I would love to have that A9 AF, 10 fps and buffer, and to be able to switch to an APS-C mode for smaller files.
Yes 5DsR and 100-400II is a killer combination. I was just answering to the other post. I am currently OK! 5DSR, 5DIV and 7DII with 100-400II 400DOII and 500II. All I was saying is that someone who starts from scratch may consider other options. Not a fan of 200-500 though so for me it would be either the 500PF which you correctly said is not available or ... Canon!
 
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Trey T

EOS 80D
Feb 6, 2019
104
47
geez ... 10fps @ 60MP FF RAW - pure insane.

Canon's 1D X II is 14fps @ 20MP FF

I'm hoping that the proposed "RX" will spec'ed about 15fps @ 30MP FF, but that will likely to kill-off the 1D X II, which is going for about $5K right now.
 
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AlanF

Canon 5DSR II
Aug 16, 2012
5,651
2,885
Yes 5DsR and 100-400 is a killer combination. I was just answering to the other post. I am currently OK! 5DSR, 5DIV and 7DII with 100-400 400DO and 500II. All I was saying is that someone who starts from scratch may consider other options. Not a fun of 200-500 though so for me it would be either the 500PF which you correctly said is not available or ... Canon!
We agree most strongly on bodies and lenses, though I am just too old to manage the 500II.
 

YuengLinger

EOS 5D MK IV
Dec 20, 2012
2,504
610
Southeastern USA
I finally see a camera that will make me an awesome photographer and turn me into a "pro" !!!! :rolleyes:
You resent Sony making a good camera? Aren't you satisfied and out shooting with the new R?

Megapixels don't excite me. Striving for an exciting FF body with great specs is admirable. Would this make me trust Sony as "my" camera company? No!

And I don't "demand" Canon responds by the end of the year, or rushes their release schedule. Just put out a solid, 5D type shooter that doesn't require me to learn a whole new control interface, or toss in weird touch strips, etc.

Go, Canon, go!
 
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tron

EOS 5D SR
Nov 8, 2011
4,031
338
We agree most strongly on bodies and lenses, though I am just too old to manage the 500II.
I mostly use it when I use a car. When I go on various organized excursions I mostly use the 400DOII. But I used once the 500 because it was a mixed one (car, then bus then back to my car a few days later. In order to save on space I just took the 500 for all occasions. I will hopefully repeat that in a similar case late October. When I walk and carry it it is easier that having it at my back. But it is more difficult to shoot handheld and it needs much higher speeds not only for the 400 - 500 difference but for its weight which makes my hand to shake a little.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,604
2,060
Big deal, Sony. Canon up-staged you with the awesome new Powershot and exciting lens cap technology.
Or by selling more cameras, if you care about that sort of thing. We probably don’t, but I’m sure Canon and Sony do.
 

Tahoejr

I'm New Here
Mar 24, 2016
10
8
I don't think these bi-annual Sony PR bursts will sway the majority of Canon users but do believe they will have a material impact on Nikon. It is crickets over in their forums.
 
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dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,387
823
During the meanwhile, I’ll soldier on with the 5DSR, it still for most of what I do will not be significantly outclassed by the Sony, but I would love to have that A9 AF, 10 fps and buffer, and to be able to switch to an APS-C mode for smaller files.
Of those four things I would love the buffer and like the APS-C mode. I can't say 10 fps never has any utility, I just don't feel it's that big of a difference (again, perhaps influenced heavily by my shooting style). Would be cool to have though.

I came away from my A9 shoots thinking that if I tweaked the prefs and got used to it my keeper rate would be practically the same as with the 5Ds (or any Canon 61pt system), perhaps with a little less effort on my part. For all the hyper over some new mirrorless features, I feel like the kit I have now is already so capable that further body improvements would have minimal impact on my work. My technique and my opportunity to go shoot are far bigger factors. Perhaps that's always been true, but with past kits I could usually point to one or two things that I really wished were better.

If I had to point to one "issue" with my current kit it would be RAW buffer size. That matters more to me than fps. I don't want to ever think about the buffer.
 
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dtaylor

Canon 5Ds
Jul 26, 2011
1,387
823
I don't think these bi-annual Sony PR bursts will sway the majority of Canon users but do believe they will have a material impact on Nikon. It is crickets over in their forums.
Kind of ironic because Nikon's current lineup is quite competitive.
 
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neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,604
2,060
One note: Sony is saying the A7R IV has better weather sealing. They've said this with every generation. Their repeat failures here is one of the things that has kept me from giving Sony a shot. If you shoot in anything other than dry weather, I would caution you to wait and see if the A7R IV can actually resist rain and snow. I was torn between the 5Ds and the A7R III right up until the test came out that showed the A7R III leaking like a submarine screen door. For me that killed Sony as a choice regardless of any other technology or consideration. It's ridiculous that Sony can't get this right.
When you’re starting from leaking like a sieve, even one gasket or o-ring is “better”.
 

YuengLinger

EOS 5D MK IV
Dec 20, 2012
2,504
610
Southeastern USA
Of those four things I would love the buffer and like the APS-C mode. I can't say 10 fps never has any utility, I just don't feel it's that big of a difference (again, perhaps influenced heavily by my shooting style). Would be cool to have though.

I came away from my A9 shoots thinking that if I tweaked the prefs and got used to it my keeper rate would be practically the same as with the 5Ds (or any Canon 61pt system), perhaps with a little less effort on my part. For all the hyper over some new mirrorless features, I feel like the kit I have now is already so capable that further body improvements would have minimal impact on my work. My technique and my opportunity to go shoot are far bigger factors. Perhaps that's always been true, but with past kits I could usually point to one or two things that I really wished were better.

If I had to point to one "issue" with my current kit it would be RAW buffer size. That matters more to me than fps. I don't want to ever think about the buffer.
I agree with you.

BUT. Canon seems to be leaving EF development on the side of the road. And I'm not the only one who has been longing for a great 50mm 1.2. Does that justify a body just for the lens? It does make me want to wait before I pick a new second body to back up my current 5D IV. I've come to enjoy the 5D IV's better AF and burst mode, and little in-the-VF features to the point the 5D III feels a little "slow" for me now. Sure, I can take great photos with the 5D III, but I get more keepers with the IV and enjoy it more.

I'd like a 5D V (yes, the next generation of tech) level mirrorless that lets me use the new RF lenses. Ok, I'd really like a new 50mm 1.2 for the EF bodies, but that seems less likely!
 
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