Initial testing shows Canon’s new 32.5mp APS-C sensor improves dynamic range over predecessor

[Canon Rumors Guy]

cgarcia, a contributor over at the FredMiranda.com forums has done some initial tests on dynamic range from Canon’s new 32.5mp image sensor. There is good news and better news from his findings.
cgarcia used sample images from DPReview to run the tests, and compared to the EOS 80D at base ISO’s, there is a small improvement in dynamic range.
Canon EOS 90D ISO 100:

DR at 32MP: 12.468
DR at 8MP: 13.480 (+1.012)
Read noise: 2.80125

Canon EOS 80D ISO 100:

DR at 24MP: 12.435 EV
DR at 8MP: 13.2343 (+0.7993)
Read noise: 2.86601

However, the better news is that dynamic range at higher ISO shows a big improvement over the 24mp image sensor in the EOS 80D.
Image Credit: cgarcia // click for larger
There will definitely be a lot more analysis of the...

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[tron]

Now that is a sensor for ... 7D III and ... 5DsR II (Yes, yes I know but one can dream!)

 

[AlanF]

This discussion was started in the Download D90 thread. I'll copy my posting from there to move the discussion here.

I am very suspicious about the analysis on the FM site. The DR at high iso with efficient modern sensors, which are of very similar efficiency, is limited mainly by the photon flux and at any given high iso is nearly the same for all the leading makes and for their different models for the same size sensor. And FF are about an ev higher than APS-C. The FM analysis has nearly an ev increase of the 90D over the 80D, putting it close to that of the 5DIV and 1DXII and leaping ahead of Nikon and Sony APS-Cs by more than you thinks the physics would allow.

 

[Davidarmenphoto]

Very interesting indeed.

 

[Mark3794]

This discussion was started in the Download D90 thread. I'll copy my posting from there to move the discussion here.

I am very suspicious about the analysis on the FM site. The DR at high iso with efficient modern sensors, which are of very similar efficiency, is limited mainly by the photon flux and at any given high iso is nearly the same for all the leading makes and for their different models for the same size sensor. And FF are about an ev higher than APS-C. The FM analysis has nearly an ev increase of the 90D over the 80D, putting it close to that of the 5DIV and 1DXII and leaping ahead of Nikon and Sony APS-Cs by more than you thinks the physics would allow.

The results are a bit suspicious, however i played a bit with the raw files and they indeed show a bit more dynamic range than the 80d sensor.

Notice also that the samples that dpreview provides are CRAW files (and not uncompressed RAW) so probably if the measurements are correct the uncompressed raw should have even more dynamic range. Maybe Canon implemented that technique to increase dynamic range using the dual pixel architecture that we saw not long ago in patents?

 

[Randywayne]

I've looked at some RAW files and am pretty impressed but I can't help think that the images would be just a little better if Canon had decided to drop the AA filter. Canon's attitude towards these filters seems to be like the Foreman in the first chapter of the Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy who says "It's a free way. You have to BUILD free ways."

 

[dtaylor]

I've looked at some RAW files and am pretty impressed but I can't help think that the images would be just a little better if Canon had decided to drop the AA filter. Canon's attitude towards these filters seems to be like the Foreman in the first chapter of the Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy who says "It's a free way. You have to BUILD free ways."

My personal preference is weak AA > no AA > strong AA. But on most of their cameras Canon chooses the worst option. From what I've seen of sample files so far the 32.5mp sensor compares well against 24-26mp crop sensors because additional resolution increases sharpness. But it would be interesting to see what the files would look like with a weak or no AA filter.

 

[canonnews]

I've been talking to Bill Claff today about all this, and he's not agreeing with the results. He has a slightly different model that he's using for all this, but he's not seeing much difference between this new sensor and the 80D sensor.

 

[sebasan]

It doesn't matter. Now 24p video is the most important feature.

 

[dtaylor]

DxO lists the A6300 as the best crop sensor in DR at 13.7. The 80D is "only" 13.2. I've argued before that a 1 stop difference on DxO's score amounts to little more than a change in post processing...assuming the sensor isn't bound by banding...and that real differences are at 2ev and greater. You can imagine what I personally think of an 0.5ev difference.

tl;dr - the 80D had good DR for a crop camera, as will the 90D. That won't stop some from complaining on the Internet however.

 

[RayValdez360]

DxO lists the A6300 as the best crop sensor in DR at 13.7. The 80D is "only" 13.2. I've argued before that a 1 stop difference on DxO's score amounts to little more than a change in post processing...assuming the sensor isn't bound by banding...and that real differences are at 2ev and greater. You can imagine what I personally think of an 0.5ev difference.

tl;dr - the 80D had good DR for a crop camera, as will the 90D. That won't stop some from complaining on the Internet however.

80d came out 3 years ago. guess no one here thinks about the future. canon puts out new cameras every 3 -4 years. will it hold up to the needs of users and competition in 3-4 years in the 2020s.

 

[AlanF]

My personal preference is weak AA > no AA > strong AA. But on most of their cameras Canon chooses the worst option. From what I've seen of sample files so far the 32.5mp sensor compares well against 24-26mp crop sensors because additional resolution increases sharpness. But it would be interesting to see what the files would look like with a weak or no AA filter.

I am hoping my local dealer gets me one soon and I’ll immediately compare its resolution vs the 5DSR. I hope it is a weak AA-filter.

 

[neuroanatomist]

80d came out 3 years ago. guess no one here thinks about the future. canon puts puts our new cameras every 3 -4 years. will it hold up to the needs of users and comeptiton in 3-4 years in the 2020s.

That argument will have actual relevance once 16-bit readouts become commonly available in APS-C and FF sensors. I’m not sure we’ll be there in 3-4 years, but maybe.

 

[dpc]

I'm bored so I'll post an essentially irrelevant comment. I could care less about 24p. I could care less about slight differences in DR, or even more than slight differences. I'd rather have an AA filter than not. I have two Canon DSLRs (AA filters, of course) and one Fujifilm camera (no AA filter). I really don't see any advantage to no AA filter. Any slight differences in sharpness are irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. I might even say that pictures can be too sharp. Buy what you want and argue about the technicalities if you want.

 

[tron]

I am hoping my local dealer gets me one soon and I’ll immediately compare its resolution vs the 5DSR. I hope it is a weak AA-filter.

I was thinking about the theoretical resolution advantage of 90D and I was wondering too if maybe there is less than expected against 5DsR due to the AA filter of 90D. I am glad you will check.

 

[PureClassA]

No no no, it still sucks and Canon and dooooooooooomed!!!!!

 

[Cryhavoc]

I'm bored so I'll post an essentially irrelevant comment. I could care less about 24p. I could care less about slight differences in DR, or even more than slight differences. I'd rather have an AA filter than not. I have two Canon DSLRs (AA filters, of course) and one Fujifilm camera (no AA filter). I really don't see any advantage to no AA filter. Any slight differences in sharpness are irrelevant as far as I'm concerned. I might even say that pictures can be too sharp. Buy what you want and argue about the technicalities if you want.

The correct way to say that is "I couldn't care less"
I could care less means you can care less so if you don't care about 24p then you should say "I couldn't care less about..."

 

[unfocused]

I've been talking to Bill Claff today about all this, and he's not agreeing with the results. He has a slightly different model that he's using for all this, but he's not seeing much difference between this new sensor and the 80D sensor.

If it matches the 80D sensor and has 32.5 mp, that's a win in my book.

 

[armd]

One would expect that the DR should be as good as 80D and perhaps greater, though the big question for me is AF. The lack of spot is killer and sadly this doesn’t appear to be a replacement for the aged 7dmkii.

 

[chik0240]

actually the DR is more than enough for most cameras in past 10-15 years to take even nightscape use, what borders is the banding when pushing shadow area, where it can be very disturbing for astrophotography use, and it seems in this gen canon sensor it's mostly solved.