Interview: Talking with Canon about the EOS R system and its future

Mikehit

EOS 5D MK IV
Jul 28, 2015
3,308
502
I thought I read something that indicated that DLO was no longer just for JPGs, and that they were cooking the RAW with the corrections if it was chosen in the preferences. I could be wrong on that. I thought that was pretty cool until I saw the FPS ratings for the new R camera.

I thought it was wonderful PR speak in this interview when he mentioned that they were doing the DLO stuff without it affecting the frame rate. Yeah, they have a whole 1/3rd of a second to get the DLO cooking done for each frame in focus-priority servo AF. In that time, they should be washing my car and mowing my lawn, too.
In one of Rudy Winston's videos he talked about DLO then said it affected RAW only but baked the DLO settings into the raw where they will be read
by the DPP software.
 

BeenThere

EOS 6D MK II
Sep 4, 2012
949
292
Will Zeiss commit to produce high end lenses for Canon RF? Any road map?

At mean time, will the three Canon EF-RF adapters work seamlessly with, saying, Zeiss Milvus series as expected as EF series? Zeiss just released Milvus 1.4/35.
If the major market moves to the R format, so will Zeiss. After all, they do want to sell lenses, and the closer flange will offer the opportunity to improve the optical quality of their product. I think they will be able to design lens, that with just a few parts differences will work for both R & Z. That is much easier with a manual focus lens.
 
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Well, that's like saying the 6DII is mostly a 5DIV with a flippy screen, which just isn't true for all sorts of obvious reasons. Personally, I would say that the R is more similar to a 5DIV than a 6D2 because of the sensor. Not just the resolution, obviously, but because of how it's positioned in Canon's lineup. Plus, lest we forget, you can't record 4k video on a 6D2.

From an AF perspective, there also look to be some 5D-level features that were explicitly removed from 6D2, like expanding AF points.

Regarding AF, it is my suspicion that the R will have the fastest autofocus speed of all mirrorless cameras built to date, but still be slower than 5D4 and D850, and probably even slower than 6D2 in raw autofocus speed (I hope to be pleasantly surprised to the contrary regarding the latter). Certainly, the A7R3 and A9 are vastly inferior in time to acquire autofocus when compared to 5D4 and 1DX2's dedicated PDAF sensors.
Look, I am not against Canon anything. If so, would not get a 5DIV few months ago. When I read all those hands-on video comments on Youtube, I get kind of sick and bored from constant whinning. I do whine sometimes too, as naturally I would like to see Canon being at the top of the game in many areas and shut all those Sony nay sayers towards the Canon, but then suddenly am realising, that we did our business using 70D for last 5 years, so what.

So I narrowed it down to mostly a one feature, when considering EOS-R. The speed of AF. On one hand, we can see claims of the really fast AF, on the other hand, we can see a lowered FPS in focus mode. I have tried a 5DIV live-view focusing and it is not good enough imo to effectively track a semi-paced walking person (weddings). And out of focus photos are not useful even with 10x more dynamic range :)

So, before we get next camera, it might not be this R one. Not yet. Maybe I will get some M5/6 II for an amusement, as I need to buy new toy each 2-3 years. Just hope my wife does not find this message :)
 
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WilliamJ

I'm New Here
Aug 8, 2017
19
20
I’ll say what many people may be thinking.

If EOS R is 5D IV equivelant, there’s no guarantee a ‘higher end’ camera such as 5DSR equivelant has dual card slots, and probably not any better video specs.

And if canon continue the thinking of ‘high megapixel shooters don’t want or need video features’, we may even see worse video specs in a high megapixel body...
 

padam

EOS 6D MK II
Aug 26, 2015
939
577
An RF 16-28mm f/2.8 zoom that was patented could be quite small indeed.
Of course the main question is: are they going to expand it upwards or downwards first with the next body?

Is DLO also embedded in video, or still not supported?
 

padam

EOS 6D MK II
Aug 26, 2015
939
577
Newly developed 5IDV like sensor? Why does not it utilise an electronic shutter, BSI and allow no crop 4K video then? I would say that they have just tweaked a 5DIV sensor to accomodate larger DPAF area and that's just it ...
It does have electronic shutter.
 

robotfist

5D Mk III, C300, C200
Oct 23, 2017
30
28
It's made to a market segment which I'm not in and neither are you it would seem?[/QUOTE]
I would say that they have just tweaked a 5DIV sensor to accomodate larger DPAF area and that's just it ...
That’s what it really sounds like to me, too. We won’t know until the two cameras are put up against each other during some rigorous tests, but something certainly smells fishy with this “new sensor” claim.
 

robotfist

5D Mk III, C300, C200
Oct 23, 2017
30
28
A cinema version of the R would be amazing considering the video specs of the current release are terrible. And a “higher end” R with better specs would also put this camera over the top. But I’m really tired of waiting on Canon. These are all just the promises and whims of a CEO that has clearly lost touch with what professionals want in today’s age. That R cinema camera should be being announced right now if they wanted to stay ahead. By the time Canon announces a mirrorless cinema camera, the market will be saturated and people will be shooting 4k videos with nothing but contact lenses, lol.
 

aa_angus

EOS 80D
Nov 25, 2015
188
32
I have tried a 5DIV live-view focusing and it is not good enough imo to effectively track a semi-paced walking person (weddings). And out of focus photos are not useful even with 10x more dynamic range :)
That’s not true. My 5DIV’s track focus on peoples’ faces while they walk swiftly. At weddings. 95+% of photos I Shoot this way with the 5DIV are in perfect focus. It’s so consistent.

EOS R is going to be amazing for AF. Just wait and see. I think it’s far closer to a 5DIV than a 6DII. 6DII is also an INCREDIBLE camera. Using one is just brilliant, as are the results it produces.
 
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sdz

EOS RP
Sep 13, 2016
241
146
Pittsburgh, PA
My personal prediction (and not that it matters) is, that the next R camera will introduce more of a new technology, especially in a sensor area. If we've got basically a 5DIV's sensor in a mid-range R, then I think Canon has something in its sleeves for a high-end model. A R-evolution.
I agree. Canon could use a modified 5D IV sensor in the EOS R because it had an advanced sensor in its back pocket. It would need better technology to best the 5D class sensor. Adding MPs to the R sensor would not work.
 

BeenThere

EOS 6D MK II
Sep 4, 2012
949
292
I’ll say what many people may be thinking.

If EOS R is 5D IV equivelant, there’s no guarantee a ‘higher end’ camera such as 5DSR equivelant has dual card slots, and probably not any better video specs.

And if canon continue the thinking of ‘high megapixel shooters don’t want or need video features’, we may even see worse video specs in a high megapixel body...
When has there ever been a “Guarantee “ from Canon on future product features. We are just extrapolating from past history or stating wish lists.
 

Josh Leavitt

EOS T7i
Aug 19, 2018
98
108
I’ll say what many people may be thinking.

If EOS R is 5D IV equivelant, there’s no guarantee a ‘higher end’ camera such as 5DSR equivelant has dual card slots, and probably not any better video specs.

And if canon continue the thinking of ‘high megapixel shooters don’t want or need video features’, we may even see worse video specs in a high megapixel body...
Yeah I was thinking about that as well. When Canon announced the EOS R I wasn't initially put off about the single card slot fiasco, because I believed at the time that EOS R was Canon's entry-level full-frame mirrorless camera. I assumed that EOS R was simply the 6D standard (single card slot as well) for Canon's mirrorless push into the market, and a very promising offering considering the higher MP count and AF capabilities over the Sony A7 III and Nikon Z6.

But if Canon execs are reaffirming the DSLR product positioning for mirrorless by saying the EOS R is a 5D-series equivalent, and that we can expect a lower-end (6D-series) and higher-end (5DS(R)/1D X-series) in the future, then that's a serious setback for event and wedding photographers considering going into the system. Those genres of photography where tethering and wireless transfer backup isn't a feasible option has forced photographers to embrace redundant card slot capabilities. Apparently, only Sony and Fujifilm are the mirrorless system manufacturers who understand the needs of that market - and it's not a small market either.

I see a 6D EOS R equivalent camera with a single card slot as a forgivable exclusion, even though Sony is including card redundancy in their entry-level mirrorless system. I cannot see the exclusion of dual card slots as being forgivable for a 5D level camera - that just defies all forms of logic in my opinion. Canon and Nikon refusing to offer data integrity/redundancy solutions in their product categories where Sony and Fuji are offering those capabilities is disturbing. But what I find more disturbing is that I'm able to achieve quintuple redundancy on my smartphone. Yes, my smartphone. A product that was never designed to primarily operate as a precision image capturing device is capable of storing my images and videos to: 1) the internal memory, 2) the external microSD media card, 3) my smartphone manufacturer cloud storage platform, 4) my Google Drive cloud storage platform, and 5) my paid subscription cloud storage platform. I get 5 methods of data redundancy on a general purpose device that cost me $300 whereas Canon are offering no redundancy on a precision image/video capture device that costs $2,300. I see a huge oversight in this, but maybe that's just me.
 
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aa_angus

EOS 80D
Nov 25, 2015
188
32
Isn’t it possible to automatically send copies of photos to your smartphone via the Canon app? This can be done using the 5DIV. I shoot weddings professionally, yet I don’t give two hoots about dual card slots. I only use one at a time in my current 5DIV’s. Never lost a single photo in 400+ weddings. Amazing things happen when you buy and look after quality equipment. Remember the 5D and 5DII? They were wedding photographers’ main cameras for over a decade. How many card slots did they have?
 

tron

EOS 5D SR
Nov 8, 2011
4,483
731
Yeah I was thinking about that as well. When Canon announced the EOS R I wasn't initially put off about the single card slot fiasco, because I believed at the time that EOS R was Canon's entry-level full-frame mirrorless camera. I assumed that EOS R was simply the 6D standard (single card slot as well) for Canon's mirrorless push into the market, and a very promising offering considering the higher MP count and AF capabilities over the Sony A7 III and Nikon Z6.

But if Canon execs are reaffirming the DSLR product positioning for mirrorless by saying the EOS R is a 5D-series equivalent, and that we can expect a lower-end (6D-series) and higher-end (5DS(R)/1D X-series) in the future, then that's a serious setback for event and wedding photographers considering going into the system. Those genres of photography where tethering and wireless transfer backup isn't a feasible option has forced photographers to embrace redundant card slot capabilities. Apparently, only Sony and Fujifilm are the mirrorless system manufacturers who understand the needs of that market - and it's not a small market either.

I see a 6D EOS R equivalent camera with a single card slot as a forgivable exclusion, even though Sony is including card redundancy in their entry-level mirrorless system. I cannot see the exclusion of dual card slots as being forgivable for a 5D level camera - that just defies all forms of logic in my opinion. Canon and Nikon refusing to offer data integrity/redundancy solutions in their product categories where Sony and Fuji are offering those capabilities is disturbing. But what I find more disturbing is that I'm able to achieve quintuple redundancy on my smartphone. Yes, my smartphone. A product that was never designed to primarily operate as a precision image capturing device is capable of storing my images and videos to: 1) the internal memory, 2) the external microSD media card, 3) my smartphone manufacturer cloud storage platform, 4) my Google Drive cloud storage platform, and 5) my paid subscription cloud storage platform. I get 5 methods of data redundancy on a general purpose device that cost me $300 whereas Canon are offering no redundancy on a precision image/video capture device that costs $2,300. I see a huge oversight in this, but maybe that's just me.
All this "redundancy" is achieved by manual operation AFTER the shooting and not at the same moment (mirroring). It can be acvieved equally manualy on EOS R. Having said that I am a 5D4 and 5DsR owner who enjoys them too much to switch to EOR R...
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,645
2,159
Pulling the vignetting out from F/1.2 or F/2 lenses live in the EVF is a big deal. It’s one of the advantages of having a screen to look through.
:unsure:

I can see the in-VF histogram, etc., being a big deal. But removing a couple stops of vignetting? Doesn’t seem impactful, unless the problem is severely magnified by the VF being compressed to 8-bit, but I doubt that’s the case.
 

MayaTlab

EOS 80D
Oct 6, 2015
192
77
I agree. Canon could use a modified 5D IV sensor in the EOS R because it had an advanced sensor in its back pocket. It would need better technology to best the 5D class sensor. Adding MPs to the R sensor would not work.
Launching a €2500 mirrorless cameras with a derivative of the 5DIV's sensor, which is the cause of most of the R's controversial specifications, doesn't make me feel that they've got much better in store. This is the second time Canon seems to display a difficulty to manufacture FF sensors with a certain degree of performances for a given manufacturing cost (6DII).
It took Sony several years of iterative developments, most often starting with smaller sensor sizes, to go from the readout speed of Canon's current sensors, to where they're at now (A7III, A9, XT3 sensor, etc.). I don't think that we'll see Canon pulling a miracle.
A realistic expectation for the short term (2019, maybe even 2020) is that we may see either a mirrorless 5DS(R) with DPAF, with very slooooow fps in continuous drive with AF, and no 4K (but no pixel stripping, yeah !), and / or a camera matching the A7III's sensor readout speed, at a minimum of $4000 (of course with a completely different - and much better in most ways - body design). Anything else and you're likely to be disappointed. Stuff like the A9 or even the XT3 sensor are years away.
I would expect quite a few video-centric cameras as well, and sooner rather than later.
 

sdz

EOS RP
Sep 13, 2016
241
146
Pittsburgh, PA
Yeah I was thinking about that as well. When Canon announced the EOS R I wasn't initially put off about the single card slot fiasco, because I believed at the time that EOS R was Canon's entry-level full-frame mirrorless camera. I assumed that EOS R was simply the 6D standard (single card slot as well) for Canon's mirrorless push into the market, and a very promising offering considering the higher MP count and AF capabilities over the Sony A7 III and Nikon Z6.

But if Canon execs are reaffirming the DSLR product positioning for mirrorless by saying the EOS R is a 5D-series equivalent, and that we can expect a lower-end (6D-series) and higher-end (5DS(R)/1D X-series) in the future, then that's a serious setback for event and wedding photographers considering going into the system. Those genres of photography where tethering and wireless transfer backup isn't a feasible option has forced photographers to embrace redundant card slot capabilities. Apparently, only Sony and Fujifilm are the mirrorless system manufacturers who understand the needs of that market - and it's not a small market either.

I see a 6D EOS R equivalent camera with a single card slot as a forgivable exclusion, even though Sony is including card redundancy in their entry-level mirrorless system. I cannot see the exclusion of dual card slots as being forgivable for a 5D level camera - that just defies all forms of logic in my opinion. Canon and Nikon refusing to offer data integrity/redundancy solutions in their product categories where Sony and Fuji are offering those capabilities is disturbing. But what I find more disturbing is that I'm able to achieve quintuple redundancy on my smartphone. Yes, my smartphone. A product that was never designed to primarily operate as a precision image capturing device is capable of storing my images and videos to: 1) the internal memory, 2) the external microSD media card, 3) my smartphone manufacturer cloud storage platform, 4) my Google Drive cloud storage platform, and 5) my paid subscription cloud storage platform. I get 5 methods of data redundancy on a general purpose device that cost me $300 whereas Canon are offering no redundancy on a precision image/video capture device that costs $2,300. I see a huge oversight in this, but maybe that's just me.
I believe the better method to use when discussing these cameras is to peg the technology used to pricepoints, not mirrored camera specs. Canon gave the R a 6D like price. The fact that the R performs nearly to the level of performance found I the 5D IV tells the market that that's the kind and degree of performance one can expect from a $2,300 camera. The market can expect more from the $3,500 and $6,500 cameras.
 

miketcool

EOS 80D
Jun 29, 2017
123
191
That’s not true. My 5DIV’s track focus on peoples’ faces while they walk swiftly. At weddings. 95+% of photos I Shoot this way with the 5DIV are in perfect focus. It’s so consistent.
Not only is it fast and accurate, the focus racks smoothly and does not search. This is a feature that is still subpar on other camera platforms. The trick is to set your AF to the correct settings for movement before shooting. I've yet to see a demonstration on another platform that lets you tap the screen to smoothly transition from a foreground element to a background element.
 

Mikehit

EOS 5D MK IV
Jul 28, 2015
3,308
502
But if Canon execs are reaffirming the DSLR product positioning for mirrorless by saying the EOS R is a 5D-series equivalent, and that we can expect a lower-end (6D-series) and higher-end (5DS(R)/1D X-series) in the future, then that's a serious setback for event and wedding photographers considering going into the system.
I don't follow your logic on it being a 'serious setback'. Whether Canon are calling this an equivalent to their 5DIV (are they?) then that still does not say they will not have dual card slots in the higher model.

Apparently, only Sony and Fujifilm are the mirrorless system manufacturers who understand the needs of that market - and it's not a small market either.
And Panasonic, and Olympus....

Canon and Nikon refusing to offer data integrity/redundancy solutions in their product categories where Sony and Fuji are offering those capabilities is disturbing.
It would be interesting to find out what feedback Canon/Nikon have received for them to omit dual cards - Thom Hogan wrote that the obsession with dual-card is very much a Western Europe/US thing and it is nowhere near the same deal in Asia. My guess is that they intend the EOS R to be a second camera rather than a pro's main camera.

But what I find more disturbing is that I'm able to achieve quintuple redundancy on my smartphone. Yes, my smartphone. A product that was never designed to primarily operate as a precision image capturing device is capable of storing my images and videos to: 1) the internal memory, 2) the external microSD media card, 3) my smartphone manufacturer cloud storage platform, 4) my Google Drive cloud storage platform, and 5) my paid subscription cloud storage platform. I get 5 methods of data redundancy on a general purpose device that cost me $300 whereas Canon are offering no redundancy on a precision image/video capture device that costs $2,300. I see a huge oversight in this, but maybe that's just me.
That is because phones have a connectivity that no (repeat NO) camera manufacture has built in yet - which suggests there are serious technical issues to overcome. So being 'disturbed' about something that apparently is not possible seems rather....over-sensitive to me.

So you have a choice - quality photos with single back-up or phone with 5 back-ups. Care to photograph a wedding with a phone and tell the bride 'don;t worry, I have got 5 copies' ;) ?
FYI - you have named 4 levels of redundancy, not 5 :)
 

Kit.

EOR R
Apr 25, 2011
1,826
1,137
Launching a €2500 mirrorless cameras with a derivative of the 5DIV's sensor, which is the cause of most of the R's controversial specifications, doesn't make me feel that they've got much better in store.
If they had nothing better in the store, it would be a €3600 camera.

to go from the readout speed of Canon's current sensors,
I think you are underestimating (by a factor of two, as in "dial pixel") the readout speeds of 2 years old Canon sensors.