Interview: Understanding the Canon EOS R

Aug 21, 2018
109
73
#61
It's fair for you to want those features, but at this point, they're just features. There's nothing innovative about adding a feature that someone else already put into their device. Like, if Apple released a smartphone with curved edges, or Samsung added a notch, or one of them added another camera with a different FL, none of that would be innovative, even though you might want it.

It's much more accurate to say that going into 2019, each camera manufacturer's offerings has distinct differentiators and a feature mix that the others don't. Mirrorless full frame cameras aren't same-y... yet... because the market is youthful. So, buy the one you want for today, or just wait a few years, and like DSLRs have become, they'll all be very similar (and you'll be able to get more for less money). Or don't.

Either way, it's only innovation if it's some new idea.



The 5D4 has a fine sensor, and if someone can't generate award-winning, amazing photographs from it, the problem is behind the viewfinder. Are Sony or Nikon sensors better? In some ways, yes, yet in other ways, it is clearly inferior. But we are at the point where flagship sensors are so good that for most photographers, professional or otherwise, they're all great sensors, and certainly good enough.

I can't speak to video, as I would much rather use a camcorder or smartphone to record video than any camera.
Agreed. The 5D4 takes nice photos. Again, I'm not disputing that at all.

As for the hybrid vs dedicated video camera discussion: it's super convenient and cost effective to use a hybrid system if the features that you need are there. Unfortunately for me, Canon does not currently offer these features on EOS R, but its direct competitors do.
 
Aug 19, 2018
43
32
#62
Ugh... Canon should really try to upgrade that silicon technology. It's understandable the EOS R is only capable of 4k @1.7 times crop when their brand new full-frame cinema camera (the C700 FF) is topping out at 30FPS for full-frame 4k readout. And that's with triple DIGIC DV 5 processors... I'm not sure if it's the silicon, the DIGIC processor architecture, or a combination of both, but it needs some work.
 
Aug 1, 2017
107
43
#63
Appreciate Canon's candor here. The first step to sloving a problem is admitting that you have one. This is a far cry from the "what DR gap?" Canon of a few years ago. Unlike DR, which was kind of a wonky subject and didn't really have that much impact for many users, read speeds and processing are core functions of a mirrorless camera and if they lag behind the competitors it's going to be pretty obvious. If you look at the progress that FujiFilm has made in just a few years with their X series I don't see any reason why Canon shouldn't be able to make some significant gains if they put the appropriate resources into their chip tech.
 
Apr 6, 2016
137
0
#64
Why is is 'unsatisfactory'? Equally valid questions are:
Why can't Sony make a decent touch screen interface?
Why can't Sony make a decent waterproofed camera
Why have Sony put an inferior LCD and EVF in the A73?
Why can't Sony put in place a decent after sales network?
Why can't Sony put out a 600mm f4l?
etc
etc
etc

The answer is that different companies have different priorities. Anyone who expects differently is being over-simplistic.

Why are forum users obsessed with Sony? It''s an interview with Canon execs.
 
Apr 6, 2016
137
0
#65
Sony is able to prioritize sensor performance because they manufacture sensors for many many applications, from their own cameras to cell phone cameras to vehicle backup cameras to other applications still. With sensor technology impacting so many parts of Sony's business, it makes sense for them to pump resources into that.
So does Canon, Sony is just better at it at the moment.
 
Apr 6, 2016
137
0
#67
I, too, am disappointed in some of the EOS-R specs, but don't underestimate the importance of ergonomics and ease of use. Awkward, hard to use cameras will cause you to miss many many shots and videos that you would have otherwise captured with a well-designed camera. And some cameras can be so frustrating to use that you'll just stop picking them up before too long.

That's the one reason why I'm not buying this camera: ergonomics. That touchscreen is nice but my eos M5 is practically useless for situations with moving subjects unless you're one of those who only use the center point. If it had a joystick I'd have pre ordered at first chance, even though it's a slow poke body.
 

gmrza

EOS Rebel SL2
Jan 21, 2011
521
1
#68
What I would like to understand better is how the introduction of the RF mount affects the future of the EF-M mount. My understanding is that electrically EF-M is basically the same as EF. That means EF-M can't enjoy many of the features that RF can. Will Canon still develop the EOS-M series, or is it dead?
 

CanonFanBoy

EOS 5D Mark IV
Jan 28, 2015
2,562
207
Irving, Texas
#70
You know, it is too bad most of those complaining don't post photos of their work to explain how any particular camera is inferior or holding them back. There are photographers and there are tech collectors at this level. Just like there are Porsche owners and Porsche race drivers. I used to go to mountain bike races right next to the Laguna Seca raceway in California. When races weren't being held people could rent track time for their daily driver sports cars. For people like that, maybe some new tech by the competition would make a difference. For the well to do middle aged guy that never gets beyond the freeway with his Carrera? Nah. He'll never use that car to it's potential. He can &itch all day long on forums, but it wouldn't make any difference at all.

I'm no great shakes as a photographer (though I am improving all the time), but there is not a got dang thing that a camera company can offer that's going to make me better. I have good gear, great gear for a poor boy that pros use every day of the week to make a good living. But the only thing that will make me any better is track time and serious practice and attention to detail. That's it. Talent is natural to some. For the rest of us it takes hard work.

So the question will always be: "Are you good enough for the camera that an upgrade makes any sense at all?" Or are you just the middle age freeway racer that wants to show off to the neighbors? Or is your self esteem dependent upon material trophies you don't know how to use?
 

takesome1

EOS 5Ds R II
Aug 23, 2013
1,437
75
#71
Maybe. It just feels like a race to the bottom when that's the response to why Canon omitted IBIS (that ALL other manufacturers have).
I thought in this interview the they did a bad job for representing Canon.
I thought there was another interview earlier that did a better job with this.
 

Mikehit

EOS 5D Mark IV
Jul 28, 2015
3,074
277
#74
What I would like to understand better is how the introduction of the RF mount affects the future of the EF-M mount. My understanding is that electrically EF-M is basically the same as EF. That means EF-M can't enjoy many of the features that RF can. Will Canon still develop the EOS-M series, or is it dead?
I guess it all depends on if people keep on buying it. And time and again with technology there are some real curveballs between what looks like the best and what sells the best.
 

takesome1

EOS 5Ds R II
Aug 23, 2013
1,437
75
#75
You know, it is too bad most of those complaining don't post photos of their work to explain how any particular camera is inferior or holding them back. There are photographers and there are tech collectors at this level. Just like there are Porsche owners and Porsche race drivers. I used to go to mountain bike races right next to the Laguna Seca raceway in California. When races weren't being held people could rent track time for their daily driver sports cars. For people like that, maybe some new tech by the competition would make a difference. For the well to do middle aged guy that never gets beyond the freeway with his Carrera? Nah. He'll never use that car to it's potential. He can &itch all day long on forums, but it wouldn't make any difference at all.

I'm no great shakes as a photographer (though I am improving all the time), but there is not a got dang thing that a camera company can offer that's going to make me better. I have good gear, great gear for a poor boy that pros use every day of the week to make a good living. But the only thing that will make me any better is track time and serious practice and attention to detail. That's it. Talent is natural to some. For the rest of us it takes hard work.

So the question will always be: "Are you good enough for the camera that an upgrade makes any sense at all?" Or are you just the middle age freeway racer that wants to show off to the neighbors? Or is your self esteem dependent upon material trophies you don't know how to use?
Honestly, the answer for my gear is none of the above. I want the best gear I can get, so when I fail the fault is squarely on my skill level not my equipment.
The learning experience still comes through failure.

The truth is there are many out there with older cheaper equipment, producing outstanding work far better than I am able to.
 
Sep 22, 2016
99
11
#76
Fair enough. If you value ergonomics, rear tilty flippy screen and really simple menus over actual image quality and video performance, than I can understand the current appeal of Canon cameras I suppose.

For me the entire purpose of a camera is the output and I therefore value the highest quality sensor performance that I can get.
It's actually a very valid point that not everyone puts image quality at the top of the list. Some just want and need good enough, and put their efforts and money into other aspects that make-up a good photo. To each his or her own, but you don't have to be a practitioner of motion-blur, intentionally out of focus shots, etc, to at least understand what Henri Cartier-Bresson meant when he said "Sharpness is a bourgeois concept."
 

CanonFanBoy

EOS 5D Mark IV
Jan 28, 2015
2,562
207
Irving, Texas
#77
Can anyone tell me where I can get the very best computer for Lightroom and Photoshop? I want the very best I can get. If I only had the very best video card and the very mostest ram, and the very fastest processor I could get great images. I want something that isn't going to be eclipsed by something else in the next year or two. My current computer is holding me back. My customers demand to know that I have the very latest in technology. If my computer is 3 years old, then I just lost a customer. Oh! And I want it for the price of a tablet. Stupid Toshiba.
 

brad-man

Semi-Reactive Member
Jun 6, 2012
1,273
49
S Florida
#78
Can anyone tell me where I can get the very best computer for Lightroom and Photoshop? I want the very best I can get. If I only had the very best video card and the very mostest ram, and the very fastest processor I could get great images. I want something that isn't going to be eclipsed by something else in the next year or two. My current computer is holding me back. My customers demand to know that I have the very latest in technology. If my computer is 3 years old, then I just lost a customer. Oh! And I want it for the price of a tablet. Stupid Toshiba.
https://www.olcf.ornl.gov/summit/

You'll have to negotiate the price...
 
Likes: CanonFanBoy
Jun 6, 2016
247
7
#79
Ugh... Canon should really try to upgrade that silicon technology. It's understandable the EOS R is only capable of 4k @1.7 times crop when their brand new full-frame cinema camera (the C700 FF) is topping out at 30FPS for full-frame 4k readout. And that's with triple DIGIC DV 5 processors... I'm not sure if it's the silicon, the DIGIC processor architecture, or a combination of both, but it needs some work.
---

It's actually 60 fps for full frame readout on the C700 FF -- I use them A LOT !!! I've taken the C700 FF's to sports, action and wildlife shoots and the 18 megapixel frame grabs I've gotten once I've done Black Magic Resolve colour grading on them IS ASTOUNDING! They've been printed at 2400 dpi glossy photos AND canvas using error-diffusion pixel resampling and the resulting quality on glossy photo or canvas on Epson professional printers at up to 19 inches by 13 inches is no problem whatsoever for this camera. I can even do 600 DPI 72 inch by 48 inch poster prints of the Canon C700 FF 18 megapixel frame grabs if you use a decent Fractal or Lanczos-5 image resizer program.

In fact, I heartily recommend the Canon C700 FF ...AND... the 8K Red Helium/Monstro cameras for professional stills photography. You can grab frames you could NEVER GET with any other type of camera! Only an Arri Alexa-65 beats these two in terms of colour rendition and image quality but that one is RENTAL ONLY!

Yeah they are $50,000+ when fully kitted out BUT when you've had old SDTV 720x480 pixel and 1080p Shoulder-mount Camcorders that used to cost $55,000+ , then such a quality jump isn't all that bad for the price!