Interview: Understanding the Canon EOS R

CanonFanBoy

EOS 5D Mark IV
Jan 28, 2015
2,559
206
Irving, Texas
#81
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It's actually 60 fps for full frame readout on the C700 FF -- I use them A LOT !!! I've taken the C700 FF's to sports, action and wildlife shoots and the 18 megapixel frame grabs I've gotten once I've done Black Magic Resolve colour grading on them IS ASTOUNDING! They've been printed at 2400 dpi glossy photos AND canvas using error-diffusion pixel resampling and the resulting quality on glossy photo or canvas on Epson professional printers at up to 19 inches by 13 inches is no problem whatsoever for this camera. I can even do 600 DPI 72 inch by 48 inch poster prints of the Canon C700 FF 18 megapixel frame grabs if you use a decent Fractal or Lanczos-5 image resizer program.

In fact, I heartily recommend the Canon C700 FF ...AND... the 8K Red Helium/Monstro cameras for professional stills photography. You can grab frames you could NEVER GET with any other type of camera! Only an Arri Alexa-65 beats these two in terms of colour rendition and image quality but that one is RENTAL ONLY!

Yeah they are $50,000+ when fully kitted out BUT when you've had old SDTV 720x480 pixel and 1080p Shoulder-mount Camcorders that used to cost $55,000+ , then such a quality jump isn't all that bad for the price!
Nope. Until it has IBIS it is a piece of... manure. Everyone knows IBIS is the gold standard for video. WTH! Now get back on the banjo, grandpa! Why would I ever get a C700FF when I could get better with the Sony A7r III? There goes Canon. Protecting the 5D IV by pricing the C700 FF out of range. SMH. There is absolutely no reason the C700 FF should, in 2018, cost more than $999 and not be the size of an M50. Smaller and lighter. Sony. I've had it with Canon protecting the 5D IV. I'm jumping ship.
 
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takesome1

EOS 5Ds R II
Aug 23, 2013
1,436
75
#83
Can anyone tell me where I can get the very best computer for Lightroom and Photoshop? I want the very best I can get. If I only had the very best video card and the very mostest ram, and the very fastest processor I could get great images. I want something that isn't going to be eclipsed by something else in the next year or two. My current computer is holding me back. My customers demand to know that I have the very latest in technology. If my computer is 3 years old, then I just lost a customer. Oh! And I want it for the price of a tablet. Stupid Toshiba.
I bought an ASUS ROG a few years ago. Super fast. I can now sort through the bad pictures even faster and see my mistakes quicker.
It increased my skill level by 0 but I process much faster now.

The other positive if your, clients are gamer's you can always shift the conversation to the latest MMOG and you can look professional. If they do not game just buy one of those fruit computers and tell them how great it is.
 
Apr 29, 2012
166
26
#84
You're comparing Canon to Canon. Of course EOS R is a good value proposition compared to the 5DIV. In many ways it's the same camera for a thousand dollars less.

Comparing EOS R to the full frame mirrorless competition is where its value misses the mark. Drop the price to $1999? Not so bad any more. It is not a premium offering over its competition yet commands a price premium. Less or even the same for more money = poor value.
Errr... Sony 70-200 is $500 more than the Canon mkiii and $800 more than the mkii. So you more than make your money back between the A73 and the R on that one staple lens. And then keep saving money with each additional lens you buy.

And there are the TS/Es, MPE65, 600mm, etc that dont exist in Sony mount. Or the new RF F2 zoom and 50mm f1.2. But obviously those things can't possibly count as innovative as they aren't exactly what you happen to want

I mean that's assuming that you buy lenses to use with your camera body. Many of us do. Perhaps you dont. I'm not even going to start on things like a flash system (which help many of us in poor light).

BTW... I really love that all of this is based on you saying that you haven't actually used a camera but have seen files from one. If there's a scientifically valid test for sensor performance, that has to be it. Right?
 
Likes: Romz26
Jan 21, 2015
192
35
#85
Fair enough. If you value ergonomics, rear tilty flippy screen and really simple menus over actual image quality and video performance, than I can understand the current appeal of Canon cameras I suppose.

For me the entire purpose of a camera is the output and I therefore value the highest quality sensor performance that I can get.
The thing is, the image quality and output on ANY curret FF is stellar for just about any need, any print size, any marketing campaign any social media, any art display and more. Getting those images in poor weather, awkward angles, dark conditions, quickly transitioning situations all these require EXACTLY what you agree Canon provides. For pixel peeping at underexposed brick walls then enjoy your marginally class leading image quality.
 
Apr 29, 2012
166
26
#86
I bought an ASUS ROG a few years ago. Super fast. I can now sort through the bad pictures even faster and see my mistakes quicker.
It increased my skill level by 0 but I process much faster now.

The other positive if your, clients are gamer's you can always shift the conversation to the latest MMOG and you can look professional. If they do not game just buy one of those fruit computers and tell them how great it is.
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Nah. If you haven't bought an HP Z8 workstation with 2x 28 core Xeon processors, 1TB of RAM and 3x Quadro GP100 graphics cards you're basically a total noob who wont even be able to open Lightroom, let alone use Photoshop. I mean, if you don't have the best computer you clearly aren't a professional right?
 
Likes: CanonFanBoy
#87
Interesting, what I took from this interview is that Canon is aware of the competition, is working on many technologies and at this point they have put out a camera with the technology that they are comfortable putting in a camera now.

Personally I would have been much happier if they had put a 50+ MPixel sensor in the current EOS R since it kind of matches the capabilities of the 5DSR in most other ways and had waited to put out a 30ish MP sensor in a camera that would have 10 or so frames per second with autofocus tracking on each shot (and no screen blackout).

I'm sure Canon will come out with an R mount camera that I will buy relatively soon, but I'm also pretty sure that sony will put out something at a better price point with some of the capabilities of the A9 (especially stacked sensor and better silent shooting) that I will very likely also get and still neither will be a perfect camera.....but I will have a blast with both of them.
 
#88
Interesting, what I took from this interview is that Canon is aware of the competition, is working on many technologies and at this point they have put out a camera with the technology that they are comfortable putting in a camera now.

Personally I would have been much happier if they had put a 50+ MPixel sensor in the current EOS R since it kind of matches the capabilities of the 5DSR in most other ways and had waited to put out a 30ish MP sensor in a camera that would have 10 or so frames per second with autofocus tracking on each shot (and no screen blackout).

I'm sure Canon will come out with an R mount camera that I will buy relatively soon, but I'm also pretty sure that sony will put out something at a better price point with some of the capabilities of the A9 (especially stacked sensor and better silent shooting) that I will very likely also get and still neither will be a perfect camera.....but I will have a blast with both of them.
IMO, the above is the most astute observation about the new information we get from this interview. I'll add just 2 points:

1) They admit that the sensor architecture is a limiting factor (thus frame rate and crop limitations). That is not a surprise, as we've surmised that from our discussions here. That they admit it is probably a good thing, as it means they're not ignoring it.
2) They don't have the capacity to do decent IBIS, but may wish to. This is NOT as expected, as we've been thinking previously that they just wanted to do lens stabilization instead as a design choice.
 
Sep 10, 2018
3
9
#89
Nope. Until it has IBIS it is a piece of... manure. Everyone knows IBIS is the gold standard for video. WTH! Now get back on the banjo, grandpa! Why would I ever get a C700FF when I could get better with the Sony A7r III? There goes Canon. Protecting the 5D IV by pricing the C700 FF out of range. SMH. There is absolutely no reason the C700 FF should, in 2018, cost more than $999 and not be the size of an M50. Smaller and lighter. Sony. I've had it with Canon protecting the 5D IV. I'm jumping ship.
 

transpo1

EOS Rebel SL2
Jan 12, 2011
625
33
#91
I'm on the opposite side. It seems funny to me that Sony can engineer the sensor which is the difficult bit, yet makes such a poor rendition of ergonomics considering its history in consume electronics, including phones !
Sensors are covered by patents, ergonomics are (largely) not. And that is the problem, the spoils go to the company who get the first patents and it may well be that Canon are having to work round that - and anyone who has any experience in product development knows that getting that first key step is a huge amount of luck. So to me it is not at all surprising that Sony has it but Canon do not. What I find amusing is those who say Canon 'should' have it for no other reason than they are the biggest company, or claim they have the technology but do not use it because they do not want to cannibalise their multi-thousand buck video system.
Well, I think this interview clarifies the point that we've been debating for quite some time- the fact is, it seems they really do not have the technology to avoid a 1.7x crop in 4K on this newest sensor (either that or they are flagrantly lying, which I doubt).

Since Canon is the largest and most preeminent camera company in the world with the largest marketshare, it's fair to say that at the very least, this is surprising- they really should have the technology if any company does, but perhaps the patents that Sony holds on sensor design do not allow them to to have it.

Sony also possesses an economy of scale with sensor production that rivals (and probably exceeds Canon's, although I am unfamiliar with the stats so am guessing) even though their camera marketshare is vastly smaller.

It's also fair to say that Canon has historically been reluctant to risk cannibalizing their other product lines and have avoided this by hobbling video features, so you also really can't blame people for suspecting Canon of doing it deliberately this time.
 
Likes: Isaacheus
Jul 31, 2014
57
1
#92
What are you looking for? IBIS? Is that it? They put 5 stops of IS in lenses and that ain't enough? Sure they don't ALL do that, but for every omission of great ILIS they offer a version WITH.

Sorry to un-load on you, nothing personal, but I read ad nauseam the mass perception that Canon is just sitting on their hands, raking in the cash with no regard for their customers. I use their cameras to make my living because there is NO ONE ELSE making what I need (excellent TS lenses) and backing their dependable-like-no-one-else's technology with the very best support. I shudder to think what I'd do if Canon abandoned rock-solid usable hardware to chase after every techno-feature the blog-o-sphere fancies this week.

Rant over. Apologies in advance.
Remind me, what are the equivalents to the new f1.2 and f2.0 RF lenses that have 5 stops of IS? I'm not a spec chasing fanboy (I'm still shooting an original 6D which suits my needs), but dismissing IBIS as a 'techno feature fancied by the blogosphere' is absurd. FACT - All else being equal, the RF would be a better camera if it had IBIS. We don't know whether Canon was unable to implement IBIS successfully at all, or couldn't do so while keeping 'all else equal', or simply couldn't do it at the desired price point, but whatever the reason may be the camera doesn't have it, and it's something that would be useful to many people at least some of the time.
 
Oct 22, 2014
60
21
#94
Fair enough. If you value ergonomics, rear tilty flippy screen and really simple menus over actual image quality and video performance, than I can understand the current appeal of Canon cameras I suppose.

For me the entire purpose of a camera is the output and I therefore value the highest quality sensor performance that I can get.

For me, the entire purpose of a camera is to capture the image I see in front of me and transform it into pixels on my screen prior to being a print in my hand. If you are having a problem executing any of these things with any camera in Canon's current line up, you're probably either a shit photographer or you have a broken camera.
Realize that many working professionals don't even use the latest gear. Upgrading is usually done when the old camera dies or there are new quality of life features that make things easier and faster.

For that matter, glass is just as important if not, more important in some instances, than the sensor behind it. Again, most pros don't upgrade until there is a massive difference in performance.
 
Apr 29, 2012
166
26
#95
For me, the entire purpose of a camera is to capture the image I see in front of me and transform it into pixels on my screen prior to being a print in my hand. If you are having a problem executing any of these things with any camera in Canon's current line up, you're probably either a shit photographer or you have a broken camera.
Realize that many working professionals don't even use the latest gear. Upgrading is usually done when the old camera dies or there are new quality of life features that make things easier and faster.

For that matter, glass is just as important if not, more important in some instances, than the sensor behind it. Again, most pros don't upgrade until there is a massive difference in performance.
Spot on... Its a shame that there seem to be so many spoiled children whinging about things here.

Try making videos with a SD minidv camera with 5 stops of DR, taking pictures on a 8mp dslr or editing video on a twenty year old computer... We did, and still managed to produce compelling content. The tools we have today are amazing, the problem is almost always the ape using them.Or in this case not using them, but complaining about them.
 
Oct 26, 2013
967
109
#96
Since Canon is the largest and most preeminent camera company in the world with the largest marketshare, it's fair to say that at the very least, this is surprising- they really should have the technology if any company does, but perhaps the patents that Sony holds on sensor design do not allow them to to have it.
Canon may lead in camera marketshare, but Sony totally dominates the sensor game. Current estimates say they now command about 50% of the market. A recent article posted here demonstrated that Sony's huge advantage comes from their domination of the smartphone sensor market. Being able to research and innovate on small sensors in far more cost effective. And yes, they have the best patents. In other words, they make far more money than anyone esle selling sensors allowing them to spend far more money on sensor development. So, it is not surprising at all.
 
#97
Remind me, what are the equivalents to the new f1.2 and f2.0 RF lenses that have 5 stops of IS? I'm not a spec chasing fanboy (I'm still shooting an original 6D which suits my needs), but dismissing IBIS as a 'techno feature fancied by the blogosphere' is absurd. FACT - All else being equal, the RF would be a better camera if it had IBIS. We don't know whether Canon was unable to implement IBIS successfully at all, or couldn't do so while keeping 'all else equal', or simply couldn't do it at the desired price point, but whatever the reason may be the camera doesn't have it, and it's something that would be useful to many people at least some of the time.
OK point taken. But I for one don't want the extra complexity in my own personal camera. I roll a Pelican case with cameras across rough pavement and it makes me cringe at the tiny ultra-precision parts I may be rattling loose. And yes, it happens like-wise to lenses with IS, but to me it seems absurd to add IBIS when ILIS works—and works better. I don't know that for a fact but that's what I've read. One less thing to go wrong if my fragile mechanisms are in one place not both. And I don't want to pay for something I'll never use. My lenses have really good ILIS, even if I'm wrong with my numbers, precisely. I am not at all opposed to IBIS and I'm not at all opposed to Canon putting it in SOME bodies, but I hope they'll leave it out of at least as many.
 
Jun 6, 2012
202
20
#98
Why is is 'unsatisfactory'? Equally valid questions are:
Why can't Sony make a decent touch screen interface?
Why can't Sony make a decent waterproofed camera
Why have Sony put an inferior LCD and EVF in the A73?
Why can't Sony put in place a decent after sales network?
Why can't Sony put out a 600mm f4l?
etc
etc
etc

The answer is that different companies have different priorities. Anyone who expects differently is being over-simplistic.
the things you named are like the least things most peopel care about. I think the number one concern with people is image quality. they would get a camera that hurts their hands for the best image quality. Higher framerates, FF 4k, and greater dynamic range helps people create whatever they want easier and opens doors to new types of imagery from them.
 
Oct 30, 2014
67
9
#99
That's the one reason why I'm not buying this camera: ergonomics. That touchscreen is nice but my eos M5 is practically useless for situations with moving subjects unless you're one of those who only use the center point. If it had a joystick I'd have pre ordered at first chance, even though it's a slow poke body.
I’m curious why you don’t use the touchscreen focus drag - I’ve found that I miss it when I’m back on my 5D4 after using my m5. I’ve found it to be much quicker than the joystick.
 
Likes: pj1974