Is a native EF mount coming to a Canon full frame mirrorless camera? [CR1]

hmatthes

EOS-R, RF and EF Lenses of all types.
Just an idea:
Canon releases a new mount for a medium format camera and that can accept also EF lenses via a simple adaptor or some tweak built in the camera. This new camera line will be the new 5D and 5Ds, the top of the line high megapixels and general purposes camera for pros. Obviously they need to release new medium format lenses so that you won't get a crop. This will be the perfect tool for studio and landscape work. It will basically be a GFX and X1D killer.
Besides that they release also a ff mirrorless line, one for pro sports, the new 1D line, a A9 killer but with a big grip, which accepts native EF lenses, the big primes that already exists. And also a entry level mirrorless camera, the new 6D line, aimed for street photography and travel, a A7iii killer.
I agree! What a wonderful concept...
I am so close to going with the GFX from my 6D and 20 year old Canon glass.

Waiting for Canon to give us a FF MILC has driven me crazy but my Leica Q has ruined me for mirrored cameras & it stopped me from buying the 5D-IV -- I want an EVF that is truly WYSIWYG. But I want the best image quality paired with a photographer's UI, not layers of menus.

The GFX provides all the pro features such as amazing image quality, dual cards, weatherproofing, real EVF, tilt LCD, both MF & 35mm modes, all with a photographer's user interface.

So I'm waiting for Canon's announcement. If the FF is for the pro (let's say a 5D-IV level), I stay Canon.
If the announcement is short on pro features, I shall order the GFX, Canon EF adapter, Fuji 110 f/2, and Fuji mid range zoom.
 
  • Like
Reactions: epiieq1 and ken

melgross

EOS 7D MK II
Nov 2, 2016
414
219
I can't call it a known problem, but I personally have had night and day difference in AF accuracy/consistency from the 50 f/1.2L and 85 f/1.4L IS on my 5D3.

I think it's more fair to say that 'autofocus for some large aperture lenses can be problematic on the wide open end'.

The 50L has been a finnicky diva for me over the span of two rentals. Even after AFMA, with ruthless technique (stationary subjects, 1/60 or faster shutter speed, no focus and recompose, single AF point etc.), the lens seemed to simply whiff with the AF 10-20% of the time unless I was stopped down to f/2.8 or narrower. It drove me nuts, if I'm honest.

The 85 f/1.4L IS, on the other hand, was so so so much better with the same careful shooting approach. The AF was simply automatic for me -- it was a joy to use and not have to worry about the gear letting me down. I shot that thing wide open without fear and without disappointment.

I rarely blame my tools as much more often than not I am the reason something didn't go as planned. But I believe in this case I was doing everything humanly possible to succeed with a wide aperture lens and the 50L let me down while the 85 f/1.4L IS was lights out.

So as much as I agree with Neuro that the lens itself is no more/less precise with AF than slower lenses, the actual consistency of nailing the focus in practice does seem to vary with certain lenses. LensTip and others who have attempted to publish AF hit rates would tend to agree with this, but they don't publish all their methods, the test cameras change over time (making lens AF comparisons challenging), etc. so it's hard to rely on them as a truly useful source of information on the subject.

- A
This is something that’s pretty much regularly reported. Well known experts in photography talk about it. Thom Hogan, Loyd Chambers, the late Micheal Reichmann as well as many others speak about this. It’s not a made up issue. It’s a matter of tolerances. The theory is great, but the reality is that razor focus isn’t really possible without looking directly at the focus in the screen. Handheld, where most of these super fast lenses are mostly used, presents an almost impossible situation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Michael Clark

melgross

EOS 7D MK II
Nov 2, 2016
414
219
For a multi-billion dollar fab to pay off its investment costs, you need to run tens of millions wafers through it. The costs of process upgrades then will be in hundreds of millions of dollars as well.

Maybe that's why 6D mark II still has an off-die ADC.


Nvidia is not "actually making them" either - they are fabless, they use TSMC plants.

In the self-driving computer at the moment, cost is less important than power efficiency of low-precision operations and minimization of memory transfers for particular neural network designs.
By “making” i was obviously referring to the R&D and design process. I think we all know that Nvidia is a fabless design house. Tesla will be the same.
 

ahsanford

Particular Member
Aug 16, 2012
7,973
502
I love how Canon is singlehandedly responsible for a wretched business idea not becoming industry standard when it's clear that everyone else is kinda doing the same thing (albeit far less effectively).

Why won't the entire FF ILC market get in a stripped down knife fight for price so that I can get what I want? Stupid Canon. :rolleyes:

- A
 

Kit.

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 25, 2011
1,419
798
I thought you guys preferred fact-based discussion? ;) So shall we agree on the [historical :D] facts?

Canon EOS 300D / Digital Rebel was launched August 20, 2003 at body only USD 900
Lolwhat?

You yourself were using a film camera that was introduced after that. If this Digital Rebel was good and cheap, why were you shooting film?
 

fullstop

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 23, 2018
1,088
153
what lol? Want to dispute even the most basic facts? I'd have to call you Canapologist then! :D

You yourself were using a film camera that was introduced after that. If this Digital Rebel was good and cheap, why were you shooting film?
Oh, you mean my Canon EOS 30/Elan 7E [release Oct. 2000 https://global.canon/en/c-museum/product/film224.html :p ] ... purchased it 2nd hand on ebay about 2 years ago for exactly 40 €. I'd happily exchange it for a Sony A7 .. even 1st gen. :p Or use it as "turn-in camera" for a 999 USD Canon FF MILC akin to EOS M50. :D

PS: I found, it does not make any sense at all to shoot film, unless you are also developing it yourself. Not prepared to do the latter, so Elan 7E was a classical "mis-purchase". Maybe collector's value will make it a nice "attic find" for my great-grandchildren some day (if I manage to have any).

Also did some comparison shoots with 5D3 vs. Elan 7 ... in B&W film had no cigar vs. Raw. ;-)
But mostly I was just interested to see for myself, if/how well Eye Control AF works for me.
 
Last edited:

Kit.

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 25, 2011
1,419
798
what lol? Want to dispute even the most basic facts?
Which facts? Did you want to provide some facts, but forgot to do it?

Oh, you mean my Canon EOS 30i/Elan 7E ... purchased it 2nd hand on ebay about 2 years ago for exactly 40 €. I'd happily exchange it for a Sony A7 .. even 1st gen. :p
You can buy EOS 300D on ebay just for just slightly more.

PS: I found, it does not make any sense at all to shoot film, unless you are also developing it yourself.
Actually, just normally processed Astia 100F had higher dynamic range, much better color separation, much nicer skin tones and better equivalent resolution than EOS 300D.
 

ken

Engineer, snapper of photos, player of banjos
Aug 8, 2016
81
65
Huntsville, AL
Reading this thread, it feels like we could all use a fresh, new Canon mirrorless rumor. :D
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
1,148
573
Luckily, all of the above points apply only to mirrorslappers. On mirrorfree cameras with global electronic shutter they can all be spared. have no impact. Life will be so much easier once slapping mirrors, mech shutters, separate AF sensor units and other 19/20th century contraptions are finally removed from digital photon-to-electron-converters. :cool:

And while I don't have any information re. sensor cost in the quantities Canon uses ... until somebody shows me credible information on this, I go with the assumption, that difference sensor for any "same-generation, same tech, same features" APS-C and FF CMOS imaging sensor is max. 500 USD/€. e.g. DP-AF sensors in Canon EOS 80D / EOS M50 sensor vs. 5D IV. Probably this is already a "rather generous" assumption, real cost difference might be a lot smaller smaller. Probably 35 bucks vs. 350 bucks or so.
Do you really believe that all of that added together is still not cheaper to produce than the cost of an EVF good enough to make most photographers give up their OVF? Or that the additional cost of a CMOS sensor capable of global electronic shutter doesn't dwarf the savings from not having a mechanical shutter?
 

BillB

EOS 6D MK II
May 11, 2017
1,153
390
Do you really believe that all of that added together is still not cheaper to produce than the cost of an EVF good enough to make most photographers give up their OVF? Or that the additional cost of a CMOS sensor capable of global electronic shutter doesn't dwarf the savings from not having a mechanical shutter?
Well, lacking information to the contrary, why shouldn't you believe what you want to believe?
 

fullstop

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 23, 2018
1,088
153
Do you really believe that all of that added together is still not cheaper to produce than the cost of an EVF good enough to make most photographers give up their OVF? Or that the additional cost of a CMOS sensor capable of global electronic shutter doesn't dwarf the savings from not having a mechanical shutter?
no solid data available.

but ... "typically" solid state electronics are more cost-effective than electro-mechanical solutions. Especially when production, assembly, calibration and quality control measures all need to be to minimal tolerances and require significant amounts of skilled labour.

plus all the additional advantages, like better and "more flexible" functionality and better "scalability", etc.
 

fullstop

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 23, 2018
1,088
153
Don't you also want to apply it to SSDs vs. HDDs?
yes, absolutely. Just take the time saved every time you write 500 GB to the SSD and - depending on your hourly rate - the price delta HDD vs. SSD will be soon amortized. :)
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
24,619
2,105
yes, absolutely. Just take the time saved every time you write 500 GB to the SSD and - depending on your hourly rate - the price delta HDD vs. SSD will be soon amortized. :)
Spin it how you like, wrong is wrong. But, nice for you that you have time to sit and wait doing nothing while your data writes to storage. Do you also sit and do nothing while watching teapots boil, paint dry and grass grow?
 

Kit.

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 25, 2011
1,419
798
Just take the time saved every time you write 500 GB to the SSD and - depending on your hourly rate -
Why would you need to babysit your computer or NAS? They are pretty capable of doing the copy work by themselves.

Do you also babysit your cloud backups?
 

fullstop

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 23, 2018
1,088
153
Why would you need to babysit your computer or NAS? They are pretty capable of doing the copy work by themselves.

Do you also babysit your cloud backups?
i generally don't do anything "cloud". and to backup my images plus lightroom catalogue to cloud would likely take weeks. so backup my images and lightroom catalogue to a NAS and second external hard disk and while i wait for even an incremental update to take place, i do not work on or with my images to exclude any data integrity risks. your personal practice may be different, you may trust "the cloud" and you may enjoy waiting, but speed/bandwidth is always a relevant factor in comparing electronic devices vs. electro-mechanical ones. apples vs apples.

so, i am looking forward to fast, large capaciity and affordable solid state memory media without any moving mechanical parts in them. just as i am looking forward to mirrorfree, mechanics-free, compact, functionally decent and affordable solid state digital cameras.

if you prefer electro-mechanical devices, that's your preference ... and your problem.
 

Kit.

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 25, 2011
1,419
798
i generally don't do anything "cloud".
So, how do you handle your offsite backup?

and to backup my images plus lightroom catalogue to cloud would likely take weeks.
So, you do need to babysit your computer or NAS ?

so backup my images and lightroom catalogue to a NAS and second external hard disk and while i wait for even an incremental update to take place, i do not work on or with my images to exclude any data integrity risks.
Do you erase images from CF/SD as soon as you downloaded them?
Why don't you keep your master image files readonly?
Why don't you have versioned backups of your Lightroom catalog?
Why don't you use snapshots?

if you prefer electro-mechanical devices, that's your preference ... and your problem.
So, do you fill your NAS and "second external hard disk" with SSDs, because '"typically" solid state electronics are more cost-effective than electro-mechanical solutions'?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Michael Clark