Is the Canon EOS 5DS series to be replaced by a mirrorless camera? [CR1]

Aug 21, 2018
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#22
I think this pretty much says it all: new sensor design REQUIRED.
I agree. Canon seems to have a new sensor for every new camera they release. But somehow each of those new sensors are about the same as the ones they replace. I would bet that the new sensor for this camera will be a modest improvement if any in DR and noise performance but will definitely include DPAF.

The point I was making earlier is just that Canon's new sensors tend to be curiously similar to those they succeed. I have serious doubts that they will drop a new high end sensor technology here such as BSI and catch up with Sony.
 
Sep 29, 2018
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#24
Canon wasn't embarrassed by Nikon. Nikon stated they were getting rid of the lower end of their lines so you have probably seen the bulk of Nikons camera line going forward. Canon released a mid level full frame and lots of people compare it to the absolute top of the line from every one so they can knock it. For the people that say Canon doesn't innovate, Canon is #5 on this list, Sony is #11 and Sony is spread out across far more industries. Are Canon cameras bleeding edge? No. But they tend to just work.

What Canon did do with the release of the EOS R and R lenses in particular is state we are in it to win it. The goal going forward in the near term is going to be getting people buying R lenses. A 5D mkV equivalent is more likely to do that than some thing niche like a 5DSR II equivalent for that reason. I also think you need the sales of the lower end 5D to help pay for the development of the 5DSR. So I suspect you will see a 5D before a 5DSR but that is just a guess.
 
Aug 21, 2018
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#25
Canon wasn't embarrassed by Nikon. Nikon stated they were getting rid of the lower end of their lines so you have probably seen the bulk of Nikons camera line going forward. Canon released a mid level full frame and lots of people compare it to the absolute top of the line from every one so they can knock it. For the people that say Canon doesn't innovate, Canon is #5 on this list, Sony is #11 and Sony is spread out across far more industries. Are Canon cameras bleeding edge? No. But they tend to just work.

What Canon did do with the release of the EOS R and R lenses in particular is state we are in it to win it. The goal going forward in the near term is going to be getting people buying R lenses. A 5D mkV equivalent is more likely to do that than some thing niche like a 5DSR II equivalent for that reason. I also think you need the sales of the lower end 5D to help pay for the development of the 5DSR. So I suspect you will see a 5D before a 5DSR but that is just a guess.
Interesting point about sales of one camera funding the development of another. From that perspective it would make sense to introduce a camera at the 5DIV level with dual slots, joystick, etc. as this should be a good seller. Ultra high 60MP resolution camera would certainly not bring in as many sales... as least I wouldn't think so anyway.
 
Likes: nitram
Aug 19, 2018
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#26
I'm curious to see how small the dual-pixel AF photodiode sizes can go and still be effective for high resolution full-frame sensors. The 24MP APS-C cameras with DPAF are fielding 3.7 micrometer photodiodes, so Canon could make 59.5MP full-frame sensor using the same size pixels. Definitely more to the equation than just the size of the pixels, but Canon's DPAF is one of the most unique sensor designs out there, and I think they may be limited in ultra-high resolution configurations by having to split the photodiode the way they do with DPAF.
 

RGF

How you relate to the issue, is the issue.
Jul 13, 2012
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#27
Not sure if they price is that much out of line. The 6D M2 body is $2000. The R is $2300. Just that Nikon introduced 2 cameras to Canon's 1 and Nikon's Z7 is close to top of line with the D850 sensor (or very similar). I think Canon may have reduced the intro price after seeing Nikon's offering but no way to know for sure since none of us (at least I am not, are you?) are part of the Nikon product introduction team.
 
Apr 3, 2018
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Calgary
#28
Canon and Nikon have been leap frogging each other for years. "Canon was embarrassed by Nikon when they introduced the Z6 and Z7 "... is just a stupid statement. Looking ahead, it will most likely be Canon and Sony (with Nikon dead) or Canon, Nikon and Sony (with Sony as a niche ILC player).
 

traveller

EOS Rebel T7i
Jul 22, 2010
888
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#29
Whilst I am not totally again the idea, I would hope that if the 5DS replacement does "go EOS R", Canon first manages to iron out some of the ergonomics and performance bugs.

With the caveat that I haven't yet had the opportunity to try the EOS R myself, it doesn't seem like any of the early reviewers are that bowled over with the new touch bar interface, nor the loss of the joystick. Personally, I also feel the power button is poorly placed for a mirrorless camera that needs to be shut down a lot of the time to conserve battery.

I am also a bit concerned with some of the performance aspects, most obviously the EOS R dropping to 3fps when using tracking priority. Whilst this isn't a big deal for landscape shooters, there are lots of other action photography users (such as birders) who use like to use a high resolution body to get more "pixels on target". Beyond moaning about eye detect not being available in continuous shooting mode, we have also yet to see in depth tests of how the AF system performs compared to a dedicated PDAF system (like in the 5D Mark 4).

Lets see how the EOS R settles in before passing judgment on whether an "EOR RS" instead of a 5DS Mk. II is a good thing or not...
 
Likes: zim
Sep 5, 2012
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#31
It would seem like a good idea for a very high resolution body to be a mirrorless type R. I think the DSLR will stick around for the action for a while, but for the world of very high resolution, a mirrorless design along with a couple of supreme lenses would be a great move. IMHO, of course...
 

scyrene

EOS 6D Mark II
Dec 4, 2013
2,261
114
UK
www.flickr.com
#33
I said the same thing about EOS R before it launched. I just wanted to see a step forward in sensor tech and not a 5DIV sensor. Not saying it's a bad sensor, it's just nothing new or exciting. Canon is not afraid of using old tech in new cameras. Look at 6DII and now EOS R. Based on these last two releases, I seriously doubt they will have a new sensor for a 5DSR mirrorless equivalent. I hope I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem likely.
Well I have to differ with you in that - I don't think they needed to put out a world-beating sensor for their first FF MILC, and the 5D4 sensor is by most accounts good. The R line is offering other things - slightly smaller size, new options for lenses, etc. But the 5Ds(R) sensor is an older generation tha the 5D4's, with some concomitant limitations (though it is still excellent), and I don't think it would be worth Canon's time to simply plop it into an R-style body at this point. Especially given that its primary customers (so people say - I'm atypical in using it for general purpose/wildlife) are studio and landscape/architecture folk, for whom a smaller body is much less compelling.
 

LDS

EOS 80D
Sep 14, 2012
1,361
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#34
IMHO for a 5DS type of camera viewfinder, and even size most of the time, matter little. For most studio/landscape/architecture photography probably the camera is on a sturdy tripod (so stabilizer features matter little also) and live view is used instead of the viewfinder. Probably a viewerfinderless camera would work well too, albeit it would be limited to that specific type of work.

FPS are also a non issue, for that type of work. What's the ratio of wildlife photographers getting a 7D/1D compared to those getting a 5DS?

That said, I wouldn't be surprised to see a RS - it's cheaper to build, and Canon could deliver some fancy lenses. For EF use, the drop-in filter adapter is still limited to a single filter, and while useful, it's not a killer feature.

I think I would buy a discounted 5DS, if and when they become available...
 

Act444

EOS Rebel T7i
May 4, 2011
877
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#36
I'll be honest and say I'm not necessarily in a hurry for them to come out and replace the 5DS/R. The current one suits me just fine, and frankly I prefer its richer OOC color output/rendering to that of the 5D4 and the newer DPAF cameras. If its replacement has 5D4-type colors, and/or produces a softer output (with or without an AA filter) I will be keeping the older camera for sure (at the very least, it will always have a place). That being said, one clear advantage of a mirrorless variant would be further reduced vibration, which would be nice.

Middle ground: if a replacement is at least 2-3 years away, how about a "firmware 2.0" update like Canon did with the 7D to add a few more features? Namely C-Raw support and actual crop functions? I can only imagine having a C-Raw 5DS file the same size as a full-size 5D4 Raw file...
 

takesome1

EOS 5Ds R II
Aug 23, 2013
1,437
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#37
I was hoping the next 5Ds would be a 5Ds R mirrorless.

But what if Canon release a 50+ mp mirror-less and a few weeks later releases a new 5Ds R II DSLR with even more mp. What do we do? Which do we buy?
To much anxiety.
 
Feb 6, 2015
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#38
Let's hope this rumor is a true one. 15 years ago we were starting to see the effects of mirror slap on MF digital Hasselblad's at 22mp even at higher shutter speeds, and today generally I end up keeping my 5dsr locked down or the mirror locked up if I want things to be tack sharp. With Hasselblad, we started clamoring for a mirrorless solution a full 5 years before it came along, as the mirror is the problem, and frankly optical viewfinders are of almost no use once you get to this level of resolution. Consistent manual focusing is not possible, as the OVF doesn't resolve as much as the sensor. For high MP cameras, mirrorless is the only way to go.
 
Likes: nitram

scyrene

EOS 6D Mark II
Dec 4, 2013
2,261
114
UK
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#39
Other than the 1D x Mark III and perhaps the APS-C lines (90D and 7D mark III, etc...), I don't see any reason for Canon to invest in the DSLR business. They need to focus all their resources on catching up and passing Sony. Otherwise they will be confined to an also-ran category. They already invested heavily in a new mount system, the R and they need to build a new lens portfolio worthy of a pro and advanced amateur interest. They can't chase both DSLR and mirrorless at the same time.
Yes they can and why should they? Because DSLRs are still a big seller. It's pretty basic business. You're off topic anyhow but chasing pros and 'advanced amateurs' is not how Canon maintains its market dominance.
 

scyrene

EOS 6D Mark II
Dec 4, 2013
2,261
114
UK
www.flickr.com
#40
Can't understand some of these people. Most of them don't even own the gear they bemoan. On the other hand, everyone knows a camera can't take good photos once new tech comes onto the market. :poop:
Heh. And there's me, going back to the 5D3 from the 5Ds because it's almost as good most of the time and I don't need the huge file sizes! My pics must be terrible taken with such antiquated equipment ;)