Is the Canon EOS 5DS series to be replaced by a mirrorless camera? [CR1]

Jul 31, 2013
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#61
I had the oportunity to test out the EOS R at Photokina. Eye AF did not work reliable and was a total failure on my copy. Even with a well lit face and eyes in the frame it did not hook onto them. The assistant was puzzled as was I. The M-FN bar is not for me either, I can't think of a situation where I will be using it, if some day I will get me one of these cameras. Button layout was uncomfortably different from my 5dsr that it took not long to skip the body and concentrate on the lenses. Lenses on the other hand are a joy to use. The 28-70 is heavy but tack sharp.
If they work on the body (just a 5D body with all the buttons) I will give it another look. As it stands I will use my 5dsr for a while.
 
#63
End of slapping is near. :)

If you are still having trouble with 5Ds(R) camera shake after this long, maybe mirrorless is your best option.
The 7D II has the same pixel pitch but you don't have this incessant whining about camera shake with it. Users sharpened their techniques & got on with it.
I am waiting for a an upgrade to make the 5Ds(R) II even better, not something dumbed down to make manufacturing cheaper.
 
Likes: tron
Jan 28, 2015
2,557
205
Irving, Texas
#65
lmao. it has nothing to do with you or your camera's ability to take good pics.
Lmfao! Sure it does. Actually, good photos depend far more on me than the gear.

It has everything to do with getting value for your investment.
Lmfao! That's exactly the point.

People whine and complain that a new camera is no better than the last camera and they've used neither. Ever. They look at spec sheets and draw conclusions. Just as bad, they watch YouTube videos and let conclusions be drawn for them.

I think our point is that all the hand wringing doesn't happen with us. We see that what we have is great. It works, etc. Yet there are those who will pronounce it as being not good enough and their upgrading as essential, but that Canon can't produce a decent camera so they can't produce decent photos. Maybe upgrading is essential, in their minds. But the point was that many of the whiners never own the products the new stuff replaces and will never own the new stuff and are dying to switch to Sony... which they will also never do.

I tend to drive a car "until the wheels fall off". I'm not one of those guys that trades every year or two. I get a whole lot of value for my money (cameras and daily drivers are not investments). Is the next iteration of what I'm driving "better"? Not for my purposes because the point of the car in my world is transportation, not to impress anybody. Not even to impress myself. Getting a newer car will never make me a better driver. Getting a newer camera will never make me a better photographer. Wants are an entirely different story.
 

Sibir Lupus

EOS M2 + EOS M10
Feb 4, 2015
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#67
Right now IMO Canon was embarressed by Nikon when they introduced the Z6 and Z7. The R is a nice camera but it is outperformed by Nikon's offerings. An update to the 5Ds(R) would help restore Canon's leadership position,
I highly doubt Canon was embarrassed by Nikon with the Z6 and Z7. If anything, Nikon should be embarrassed releasing a $3,000 "pro" Z7 and launching it lackluster lenses. Canon's EOS R may be lacking in some video features, but its AF, higher resolution sensor for an entry level FF mirrorless, and better lenses at launch are what matter more to photographers. Better EOS R bodies will come soon, but lenses are the real investment in any system and Canon's EOS R system already has a good start on that.
 
Nov 8, 2011
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#68
... and both CR1 and ... vague terms. This seems like a thread to inspire conversation and nothing more. Not necessarily bad of course since I truly hope it is just that :) The reason: The only way the 5DsR replacement is going to be a proper superset of the current model is to be a DSLR one :cool::cool::cool:
 
Likes: Chris Charles
Aug 21, 2018
108
72
#69
Lmfao! Sure it does. Actually, good photos depend far more on me than the gear.



Lmfao! That's exactly the point.

People whine and complain that a new camera is no better than the last camera and they've used neither. Ever. They look at spec sheets and draw conclusions. Just as bad, they watch YouTube videos and let conclusions be drawn for them.

I think our point is that all the hand wringing doesn't happen with us. We see that what we have is great. It works, etc. Yet there are those who will pronounce it as being not good enough and their upgrading as essential, but that Canon can't produce a decent camera so they can't produce decent photos. Maybe upgrading is essential, in their minds. But the point was that many of the whiners never own the products the new stuff replaces and will never own the new stuff and are dying to switch to Sony... which they will also never do.

I tend to drive a car "until the wheels fall off". I'm not one of those guys that trades every year or two. I get a whole lot of value for my money (cameras and daily drivers are not investments). Is the next iteration of what I'm driving "better"? Not for my purposes because the point of the car in my world is transportation, not to impress anybody. Not even to impress myself. Getting a newer car will never make me a better driver. Getting a newer camera will never make me a better photographer. Wants are an entirely different story.
Again missing my point. My point IS that it's the person that takes the photos and any camera in the right hands can be good enough - we agree here. Also, I'm not saying that in general we need to upgrade every time a new camera comes out because it's better on paper. For me, I've been looking for an upgrade for a few months now and since I'm in the market for a new camera, my point is that it would make the most sense to get the most for my money. Not something that's marginally better (at best) than 3 year old cameras. Not because it can't take good pictures. It absolutely can. I can take good pictures with my girlfriends T6i... this is not the point. But, because I am making an investment I want the absolute most for that money. And it is a fact that the two main competitors to EOS R offer more for less.
 
Jan 28, 2015
2,557
205
Irving, Texas
#71
Again missing my point. My point IS that it's the person that takes the photos and any camera in the right hands can be good enough - we agree here. Also, I'm not saying that in general we need to upgrade every time a new camera comes out because it's better on paper. For me, I've been looking for an upgrade for a few months now and since I'm in the market for a new camera, my point is that it would make the most sense to get the most for my money. Not something that's marginally better (at best) than 3 year old cameras. Not because it can't take good pictures. It absolutely can. I can take good pictures with my girlfriends T6i... this is not the point. But, because I am making an investment I want the absolute most for that money. And it is a fact that the two main competitors to EOS R offer more for less.
Hmmm... I thought your point was a response to my point. You kept using the word "you" as though you were telling us what we needed to know for our situation. Didn't realize we were remarking about your personal situation as though our perspective and reasons should carbon copy yours. Don't think what we said had anything to do with you. You "lmao"ed about what we said about our personal situation and injected your thoughts about your personal situation. So you have no point as it pertains to us. We know our needs better than you.

We understood each other well. You, the third wheel in the conversation, misunderstood that it was about you.

lmao. it has nothing to do with you or your camera's ability to take good pics. It has everything to do with getting value for your investment.
There's a really cool word: "My". Try it sometime.

Now, go buy your Sony.
 
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Aug 21, 2018
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#72
How long had the EOS R been in devlopement before they announced it last month and released 2 days ago?
I now that the two Panasonic FF coming out next year took 8 years from start to announcementlast month.
 
Aug 21, 2018
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#73
Hmmm... I thought your point was a response to my point. You kept using the word "you" as though you were telling us what we needed to know for our situation. Didn't realize we were remarking about your personal situation as though our perspective and reasons should carbon copy yours. Don't think what we said had anything to do with you. You "lmao"ed about what we said about our personal situation and injected your thoughts about your personal situation. So you have no point as it pertains to us. We know our needs better than you.

We understood each other well. You, the third wheel in the conversation, misunderstood that it was about you.



There's a really cool word: "My". Try it sometime.

Now, go buy your Sony.
Interesting response. I have concerns, but I'll leave it alone because I dont want to prompt another response like that.

And I did order a Sony A7iii and 24-70 f2.8 lens. But I have to wait "1 to 3 months" because where I live these cameras are still out of stock everywhere. Will keep my Canon for now as well so I can compare the two systems. Exciting times.
 
#74
The most exciting piece of equipment I've used in many, many years is the Fujifilm X-T2. It has no AA (low-pass) filter in front of the sensor, dulling the image, and making it soft. This is critical to getting razor-sharp images right out of the camera. I think Canon should learn from this in the upcoming "Pro" mirrorless release. This central point CAN'T be emphasized enough. We can deal with possible moire in post. (BTW, this has never been an issue with my X-T2). This is coming from an ex 5DSr user.
 
Dec 17, 2013
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#75
Currently I am dealing with the 6D original and 7D2 sensors, and do not print large. I have been holding off on a high resolution sensor until there is additional sensor improvement re dynamic resolution or my existing cameras give up the ghost. I am looking at panorama to increase resolution if needed. Really, the things I want next are the upgrade parts for a spherical (multi row) pano set-up (I have just a single row nodal slide) and maybe the "lens foot" holder for the TS-E24 f/3.5 II. Easy-peasy shifts for higher resolution shots. One annoying thing about high resolution is need for more storage and more speed in computer.
 
Sep 9, 2014
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#76
How long had the EOS R been in devlopement before they announced it last month and released 2 days ago?
I now that the two Panasonic FF coming out next year took 8 years from start to announcementlast month.
Bryan Carnathan over at "The Digital Picture" asked Canon reps at the big Hawaii EOS R release gala (for certain Pros) how long the EOS R had been in development - he did not get an answer from them. Meaning: they would not share that info with him.
 
Nov 2, 2016
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#77
I said the same thing about EOS R before it launched. I just wanted to see a step forward in sensor tech and not a 5DIV sensor. Not saying it's a bad sensor, it's just nothing new or exciting. Canon is not afraid of using old tech in new cameras. Look at 6DII and now EOS R. Based on these last two releases, I seriously doubt they will have a new sensor for a 5DSR mirrorless equivalent. I hope I'm wrong, but it doesn't seem likely.
Well, the 5DmkIV sensor was itself brand new, much better than before, using new technology. The 5DR sensor was new, with slightly better specs than before, though with older technology.

If Canon just includes the amplifier on the sensor as they did with the mkIV sensor, it would gain a good stop right there.
 
Nov 2, 2016
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#78
To me, this is part of their problem. Canon is terrified of losing DSLR sales... even if those same sales just move over to mirrorless. The EOS R is a perfect example of this. They made it clear multiple times at launch that the EOS R "IS NOT" a replacement for their DSLR system. Plus they made sure it fit right in between the 6D Mark II and 5D Mark IV to ensure it doesn't directly compete and therefore affect sales of either of those DSLR's.
I don’t think they’re terrified. But they have to see how this new business does before willy nilly discontinuing cameras that have done well for them. They also have to fill out the mirrorless body and lens lines. A lot of people are going to buy DSLRs until there are a lot more R lenses out. The DSLRs are tried and true, the R series isn’t yet.
 
Oct 26, 2013
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#79
The most exciting piece of equipment I've used in many, many years is the Fujifilm X-T2. It has no AA (low-pass) filter in front of the sensor, dulling the image, and making it soft. This is critical to getting razor-sharp images right out of the camera. I think Canon should learn from this in the upcoming "Pro" mirrorless release. This central point CAN'T be emphasized enough. We can deal with possible moire in post. (BTW, this has never been an issue with my X-T2). This is coming from an ex 5DSr user.
Well, if Canon gets rid of the low-pass filter I will probably not buy a Canon again. I realize some folks prefer "razor sharp" images, but having at least one camera that has no low-pass filter, I strongly prefer the images from cameras that do. I prefer more realistic looking landscapes - not pics that seem artificially sharp. The human eye sees the large shapes and tends to ignore interior detail (Yes, they have done research on this) so it looks much more natural to see trees and not every single leaf - almost as if it is outlined. That's just my opiion, of course, but I have taken pics with my Olympus EM-1 (no filter) that go into the bin becaue of outlines that aren't really there and way too much detail that ruins some shots.
 
Likes: dtaylor
#80
Makes sense to me. My guess for the 2nd FF mirrorless has been basically this the entire time. Canon likes to use old tech over developing new stuff, so I predict the sensor from the 5DSR series but "updated/redesigned" in the same way the 5DIV sensor was "newly developed" for the EOS R. The camera may or may not have better controls such as a joystick for focus points and it's unlikely to have full frame 4K (no crop) or 120P at 1080 due to sensor tech and readout speeds, high 50MP resolution and same Digic 8 processor used in EOS R. I also wouldn't expect to see any IBIS implementation.

But, I'm certain that it will take incredibly sharp and detailed photos especially with the new RF lenses.

I'm personally more interested in what Canon might be able to do with a lower resolution sensor like 20-26 MP. Maybe we could get better DR, higher fps and full frame 4K.
L
Makes sense to me. My guess for the 2nd FF mirrorless has been basically this the entire time. Canon likes to use old tech over developing new stuff, so I predict the sensor from the 5DSR series but "updated/redesigned" in the same way the 5DIV sensor was "newly developed" for the EOS R. The camera may or may not have better controls such as a joystick for focus points and it's unlikely to have full frame 4K (no crop) or 120P at 1080 due to sensor tech and readout speeds, high 50MP resolution and same Digic 8 processor used in EOS R. I also wouldn't expect to see any IBIS implementation.

But, I'm certain that it will take incredibly sharp and detailed photos especially with the new RF lenses.

I'm personally more interested in what Canon might be able to do with a lower resolution sensor like 20-26 MP. Maybe we could get better DR, higher fps and full frame 4K.
Makes sense to me. My guess for the 2nd FF mirrorless has been basically this the entire time. Canon likes to use old tech over developing new stuff, so I predict the sensor from the 5DSR series but "updated/redesigned" in the same way the 5DIV sensor was "newly developed" for the EOS R. The camera may or may not have better controls such as a joystick for focus points and it's unlikely to have full frame 4K (no crop) or 120P at 1080 due to sensor tech and readout speeds, high 50MP resolution and same Digic 8 processor used in EOS R. I also wouldn't expect to see any IBIS implementation.

But, I'm certain that it will take incredibly sharp and detailed photos especially with the new RF lenses.

I'm personally more interested in what Canon might be able to do with a lower resolution sensor like 20-26 MP. Maybe we could get better DR, higher fps and full frame 4K.
You have a point about re purposing older tech but to counter that the 5DS/R was new tech. Same for the 5Dmk4. Hopefully we’ll see some brand new sensor tech moving forward. I think they needed to go with the repurposed 5Dmk4 sensor on the first EOS R body in order to get something to market this year to stay relevant. They have a lot of patents including stacked sensors. True they don’t rush things to market and deliver every bell and whistle which seems frustrating but on the other hand if your a professional consumer your not beta testing for them like the first two iterations of the Sony prosumer bodies before they got the kinks out. While the specs sheet doesn’t look as exciting what you do get is a reliable camera with good ergonomics, simple to use, and a workhorse that doesn’t have anything added to it that doesn’t yet meet the engineers standards. For instance the IBIS, Canon has stated they didn’t include because of battery or was it overheating issues (one of those). Even if other manufacturers got it right (IBIS) I’m glad Canon didn’t add it in if it wasn’t yet up to their standards. They have stated it’s coming soon.