Is video still needed in DSLRs?

Feb 28, 2013
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Futuresource predict that pro video users are moving away from DSLRs to CSCs or dedicated cameras such as the BMs, GoPros for video mainly because they are easier to use and that the ground-breaking days of the Canon 5D MKII are behind us.
The Nikon Df is one example of a high end camera without video and I know personally Ive never used any of my Canon DSLRs for video, I would much sooner use the GoPro or my Sony video camera ergonomically both are easier. Clearly some people love this feature but does that mean every model should carry the ability to shoot either HD or 4K?
 
Mar 14, 2012
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Don Haines said:
When I have the time to set up properly and need high quality.... out come the DSLRs.... mostly because of the lenses....

+1. The first and last dedicated video camera bought was in 2007. It wrote to HDV tapes and could do up to 1080i/720p. Now, I use the EOS-M with the EF adaptor (or 5D III) and my EF lenses. Larger format, less noise etc. I'm much more likely to upgrade my cameras than a dedicated video camera. I don't take many videos and using the DSLR/MILC to handle the video duties works just fine.
 
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I do video for a living, DSLRs are one of a selection of tools that I will use. They have their strengths they have their caveats.

I'm glad video is there. But I'm also glad that Canon are making more stills orientated cameras such as the 5Dr as well.

I don't get the folk who get all vitriolic about the presence of a video mode. When they put in live view, it was virtually just a case of adding a record button...

If you don't want to use it, don't use it.

I don't use spot average metering. I don't use picture profiles. I've never used PIC modes.

Some people have maybe never used their stop down preview button or flash exposure lock, or full manual.

But it's a massed produced product, not a tailored bespoke solution unique to each of our individual needs.

I do not buy at all that video development is to the detriment of stills development, or that videos inclusion negates the effectiveness of the stills operation.

It's here to stay. Some folk will graduate onto better video rigs. Some folk will get on just fine with what they've got. Some folk might never ever use it ever.

But it's going nowhere.

And the Nikon DF was a terrible example. Style over substance. The best laugh of all was the specially developed retro 1.8G with no aperture ring....

Yeah, I'm a real photographer. With my Billingham bag and chrome topped camera. Yeah. Aritsan, like.

Unless I'm paying you £1500 to shoot my wedding, and they turn up with an original digital rebel with kit lens, I care not a jot what kit anybody else uses. Show me your images. Let them do your posturing.
 
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Mar 25, 2011
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A large market selling DSLR accessories for video had developed over the past few years. Most users are not pro video makers. but home enthusiasts.

I generally do not do video because I don't want to spend the time to do a decent job, and its difficult for me without autofocus.

As soon as a FF DSLR with good video and AF capabilities appears. I might occasionally shoot a clip. I'm still on the fence about that. I'm waiting to read real world reports by unbiased testers of the A7R II using Canon lenses, but I'd have a hard time convincing myself to buy a Sony. Sony electronics have a poor record of reliability, and their time to service a camera could use up a entire season.
 
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If you aren't using your dslr to shoot video then you are missing out on half the money you could be making with your camera. The low light and glass on my 1Dx WOULD have saved me from spending 4,000 on another video camera but sadly it has no continuous auto focus on video. I basically only got to use it for interviews or stationary closeups of bride and grooms exchanging vows. Hopefully the 1Dx mk will have a video feature set that makes it relavant to someone who isn't shooting a damn movie.
 
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Autofocus and contiguous moving pictures do not mix.

Autofocus can be as precise as is scientifically and technically possible, it can be as seemingly instantaneous as one could want.

On a consumer small sensor camcorder you might just get away with it for most of the time. On a large sensor with fast lenses you will not.

I'm appalled at the arrogance of stills users who think they can become cameramen by virtue of hitting record.

The apparatus may be identical, the terminology may be similar, but they are worlds apart in terms of technique and approach.

I've spent 20 years as a hobby photographer and I think I'm at a stage where I'm alright. I've worked professionally in video for 12 years and did a university degree then a 2 year vocational course after that.

I would never consider doing stills and video on the same job (i'd be unlikely to do stills on any job unless as an unpaid favour) they are totally different.

The folks who think AF will solve their issues aren't even scratching the surface.
 
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Don Haines

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Jun 4, 2012
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Tinky said:
Autofocus and contiguous moving pictures do not mix.

Autofocus can be as precise as is scientifically and technically possible, it can be as seemingly instantaneous as one could want.

On a consumer small sensor camcorder you might just get away with it for most of the time. On a large sensor with fast lenses you will not.

I'm appalled at the arrogance of stills users who think they can become cameramen by virtue of hitting record.

The apparatus may be identical, the terminology may be similar, but they are worlds apart in terms of technique and approach.

I've spent 20 years as a hobby photographer and I think I'm at a stage where I'm alright. I've worked professionally in video for 12 years and did a university degree then a 2 year vocational course after that.

I would never consider doing stills and video on the same job (i'd be unlikely to do stills on any job unless as an unpaid favour) they are totally different.

The folks who think AF will solve their issues aren't even scratching the surface.
AF works surprisingly well on the 7D2 video. It is nowhere near as good as manual focus, but for a DSLR, surprisingly good.

I should search out a video I shot of a fiddle player with everything in automatic mode.... Auto focus and auto level.... She was wearing a white shirt with a dark vest and a dark fiddle. The AF tracked her arm perfectly.... of course that meant that the rest of the image was going in and out of focus every time the arm moved..... but hey.... it tracked the arm! The auto brightness was doing the same thing.... arm moves left... everything gets darker.... arm moves right... everything gets brighter.....

I think it is a perfect video to show why you don't want auto anything in videos.....
 
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Don Haines said:
I think it is a perfect video to show why you don't want auto anything in videos.....

Exactly.

Somebody stands in the foreground how does the AF system know if thats a motivated character movement or somebody who hasn't noticed you recording...

AF works great in stills because you only have to be in focus for a moment. Video is sucky unless you are in 'motivated' focus always.

Auto jerking is not the same thing.
 
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Feb 12, 2014
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jeffa4444 said:
Futuresource predict that pro video users are moving away from DSLRs to CSCs or dedicated cameras such as the BMs, GoPros for video mainly because they are easier to use and that the ground-breaking days of the Canon 5D MKII are behind us.
The Nikon Df is one example of a high end camera without video and I know personally Ive never used any of my Canon DSLRs for video, I would much sooner use the GoPro or my Sony video camera ergonomically both are easier. Clearly some people love this feature but does that mean every model should carry the ability to shoot either HD or 4K?

Yes. Because most of the cameras in question are bought largely by enthusiasts or wannabe pros who can't afford the dedicated cameras.
 
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Tugela said:
Yes. Because most of the cameras in question are bought largely by enthusiasts or wannabe pros who can't afford the dedicated cameras.

Thats becoming more true.

But historically, 2009 to 2011 say, there were no large sensor cameras for video other than DSLRs, CSC, or the uber expensive Reds or Arri's.

BMD have really shaken things up. A serious capable complete 4K camera for the same prices as a 5D3?

My main camera in 2011 was still an ENG. I don't miss the weight, not just of the camera but of the pags, of the tripod...

There are also some areas where compact form cameras like the CSCs win out - aerial use, crash cam, etc.

Yes, the c series camcorders are better, and some of the Sonys even better still, but feature films and tv shows have been shot on 5D3's. I've had about a third of an hour long programme broadcast shot on a 550D..

There is no blanket one size fits all assumption to make. Everybody is doing different stuff at different ability levels and with different needs. There are a class of wealthy hobbyist who is poised to jump at a click of Philip Blooms fingers. I prefer to listen to the likes of John Steele, or John Aitchison. And I don't jump for anybody.
 
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Yes video is still needed in DSLRs. Even if most people don't know how to use it video can come in handy and it's easier to have everything in one body. If you are serious and want quality and features you'll want to go with something like the gh4 or a black magic camera or better but the quality of dslr video is good enough for most people. I don't get why people complain that it's a feature of modern dslrs and I also don't get why people expect a stills camera to include 8k internal video.
 
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Pixel

CR Pro
Sep 6, 2011
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Don Haines said:
Tinky said:
Autofocus and contiguous moving pictures do not mix.

Autofocus can be as precise as is scientifically and technically possible, it can be as seemingly instantaneous as one could want.

On a consumer small sensor camcorder you might just get away with it for most of the time. On a large sensor with fast lenses you will not.

I'm appalled at the arrogance of stills users who think they can become cameramen by virtue of hitting record.

The apparatus may be identical, the terminology may be similar, but they are worlds apart in terms of technique and approach.

I've spent 20 years as a hobby photographer and I think I'm at a stage where I'm alright. I've worked professionally in video for 12 years and did a university degree then a 2 year vocational course after that.

I would never consider doing stills and video on the same job (i'd be unlikely to do stills on any job unless as an unpaid favour) they are totally different.

The folks who think AF will solve their issues aren't even scratching the surface.
AF works surprisingly well on the 7D2 video. It is nowhere near as good as manual focus, but for a DSLR, surprisingly good.

I should search out a video I shot of a fiddle player with everything in automatic mode.... Auto focus and auto level.... She was wearing a white shirt with a dark vest and a dark fiddle. The AF tracked her arm perfectly.... of course that meant that the rest of the image was going in and out of focus every time the arm moved..... but hey.... it tracked the arm! The auto brightness was doing the same thing.... arm moves left... everything gets darker.... arm moves right... everything gets brighter.....

I think it is a perfect video to show why you don't want auto anything in videos.....

The 7D2 AF tracking is pretty phenomenal for this class of camera. When it comes around to the 5D4 and 1Dx2 it will probably be world class.
 
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Yep. I didn't use that exact superlative. I'm sure of it's type it will be world class. It's the type thats wrong though.

Folk who fancy doing video commercially need to learn how to manually focus I'm afraid. You need to look. You need to think. Your fingers need to be able to do what your eye tells them.

I can't think of another way to say it.
 
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May 15, 2014
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Random Orbits said:
Don Haines said:
When I have the time to set up properly and need high quality.... out come the DSLRs.... mostly because of the lenses....

+1. The first and last dedicated video camera bought was in 2007. It wrote to HDV tapes and could do up to 1080i/720p. Now, I use the EOS-M with the EF adaptor (or 5D III) and my EF lenses. Larger format, less noise etc. I'm much more likely to upgrade my cameras than a dedicated video camera. I don't take many videos and using the DSLR/MILC to handle the video duties works just fine.

+2. I even picked up a 2nd M to use as a dedicated home video rig. Toss on a flash bracket for good two hand support, external mic, magic lantern and it's a great little tool for capturing the occasional goofy thing kids say. I love photography, but even I recognize that I need to capture occasional family moments with a little sound and motion.
 
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Apr 29, 2012
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Tinky said:
Autofocus and contiguous moving pictures do not mix.

Autofocus can be as precise as is scientifically and technically possible, it can be as seemingly instantaneous as one could want.

On a consumer small sensor camcorder you might just get away with it for most of the time. On a large sensor with fast lenses you will not.

I'm appalled at the arrogance of stills users who think they can become cameramen by virtue of hitting record.

The apparatus may be identical, the terminology may be similar, but they are worlds apart in terms of technique and approach.

I've spent 20 years as a hobby photographer and I think I'm at a stage where I'm alright. I've worked professionally in video for 12 years and did a university degree then a 2 year vocational course after that.

I would never consider doing stills and video on the same job (i'd be unlikely to do stills on any job unless as an unpaid favour) they are totally different.

The folks who think AF will solve their issues aren't even scratching the surface.

^^This. If you're worrying about video (which means running sound as well as image) you're not taking stills at the same time. You just can't do both justice on your own. In fact just doing the image and audio simultaneously is bad enough, which is why most video crews will have at least two people.

DSLRs have a place for video, and it includes niches such as crash cams (Mad max, Avengers etc - they're practically disposable, small and will be easier to match to your A/B cameras than a GoPro) and prosumer video where being able to spend money on one device that does still and moving images makes economic sense.

For most professional video though, I'd be hard pressed to choose a DSLR over a dedicated cinema camera, even an entry level model like a C100. The ergonomics, built in ND filters, and XLR inputs just make life so much easier than using a DSLR if you aren't on a big crew. And if you're on a big crew with a decent budget you should be able to use something in the FS7/C300 bracket. In 2008 that wasn't an option, you had the 5DM2 or a Red One. Now there are a range of dedicated cinema camera that fill most of those spaces.

As an aside, I've only ever had horror stories about the Blackmagic cameras from DoP's. So many people whose opinions I respect told me that they had bought the internet hype bought or rented one and ran screaming after they lost footage, crashed mid-take, or lacked basic features they'd assumed would be there that I've stopped paying much attention to their annual new camera announcements. And as someone who is mainly interested in documentary, the BMCs high ISO material looks awful compared to the competition. They make cameras which are adored by internet gearheads but appear hated by DoPs. Which seems to be the antithesis of Canon, who were told by hundreds of Internet experts that the C300/C100 would fail horribly as they were hopelessly underspecced, and yet both went on to sell very well and are still heavily used for tv.
 
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Feb 12, 2014
873
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syder said:
Tinky said:
Autofocus and contiguous moving pictures do not mix.

Autofocus can be as precise as is scientifically and technically possible, it can be as seemingly instantaneous as one could want.

On a consumer small sensor camcorder you might just get away with it for most of the time. On a large sensor with fast lenses you will not.

I'm appalled at the arrogance of stills users who think they can become cameramen by virtue of hitting record.

The apparatus may be identical, the terminology may be similar, but they are worlds apart in terms of technique and approach.

I've spent 20 years as a hobby photographer and I think I'm at a stage where I'm alright. I've worked professionally in video for 12 years and did a university degree then a 2 year vocational course after that.

I would never consider doing stills and video on the same job (i'd be unlikely to do stills on any job unless as an unpaid favour) they are totally different.

The folks who think AF will solve their issues aren't even scratching the surface.

^^This. If you're worrying about video (which means running sound as well as image) you're not taking stills at the same time. You just can't do both justice on your own. In fact just doing the image and audio simultaneously is bad enough, which is why most video crews will have at least two people.

DSLRs have a place for video, and it includes niches such as crash cams (Mad max, Avengers etc - they're practically disposable, small and will be easier to match to your A/B cameras than a GoPro) and prosumer video where being able to spend money on one device that does still and moving images makes economic sense.

For most professional video though, I'd be hard pressed to choose a DSLR over a dedicated cinema camera, even an entry level model like a C100. The ergonomics, built in ND filters, and XLR inputs just make life so much easier than using a DSLR if you aren't on a big crew. And if you're on a big crew with a decent budget you should be able to use something in the FS7/C300 bracket. In 2008 that wasn't an option, you had the 5DM2 or a Red One. Now there are a range of dedicated cinema camera that fill most of those spaces.

As an aside, I've only ever had horror stories about the Blackmagic cameras from DoP's. So many people whose opinions I respect told me that they had bought the internet hype bought or rented one and ran screaming after they lost footage, crashed mid-take, or lacked basic features they'd assumed would be there that I've stopped paying much attention to their annual new camera announcements. And as someone who is mainly interested in documentary, the BMCs high ISO material looks awful compared to the competition. They make cameras which are adored by internet gearheads but appear hated by DoPs. Which seems to be the antithesis of Canon, who were told by hundreds of Internet experts that the C300/C100 would fail horribly as they were hopelessly underspecced, and yet both went on to sell very well and are still heavily used for tv.

You are assuming that the only people who shoot video are professionals. In fact most people who shoot video are amateurs and I would guess that 99.9% of them want a camera that can shoot stills and video equally well. They don't want to carry two separate dedicated cameras around with them, they only want one. That is why consumer camcorders are all but dead.

That is why pretty much all cameras which are in any way targeted to the consumer market are going to include a video function as well. It is necessary to maximize potential sales.
 
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