Lee Big Stopper vs. Formatt Firecrest?!?!?

[keithfullermusic]

i've been getting ready to invest in a 100mm square filter system, and since they are pricey i've done tons of research. everything was pointing towards the Lee system. i've heard tons of people complain about how their holder falls off sometimes and their Big Stopper leaves a horrid blue cast - but i couldn't find anything better.

by chance, i started looking into the Hi-Tech Formatt Firecrest filters and they look amazing. even the reviews (i've only found a few) say that they prefer them to their Lee stuff, because they have nearly no color cast and aren't easy-to-break glass. however, i almost find this too good to be true seeing as i've only just now heard of them.

so have any of you used both or at least the firecrest stuff? have any of you used both the lee and hi-tech 100mm filter holder? or have any of you have any experience with this stuff to give me some advice?

thanks,

-Keith

 

[mkihne]

Have the 16 and 10 stop versions.....have not performed any side by side tests but appear to be as neutral as possible. I have seen them mentioned in several filter discussions but almost universally ignored in the discussion. Maybe the firecrest filters get confused with F-H's previous filters. Maybe F-H does not do a good job promoting them or getting them compared to Lee or Sing-Ray.

I use the circular almost exclusively but they also have square-rectangular options. These are very thin filters and thus are less prone to vignette and better for stacking for that reason. Wish they were brass mounts but have had no problem with the aluminum. My B&H filters and others I used to use are on a shelf at home.

 

[The Elusive Panda]

Hi Keith,

I use the Lee 100mm system, and I've never had an issue with the filter holder falling off. If anything, I'm impressed by the ease of use and quality after carrying it around on a trip to Europe. The Lee adapter rings are expensive, so I wonder if the people having trouble bought cheaper adapters that didn't fit as well.

A few things I noticed: glass filters are easier to clean because they don't scratch as easily and resin filters (like the graduated ND) can be difficult to blow off because of dust clinging with static electricity. Also, shoot a grey card on location and you can easily take care of any color cast in post. I only have a Little Stopper so I can't speak to the color cast issue.

 

[AlexB]

Hi

I use the Formatt Hitec Firecrest 4x4 10-stop, 13-stop and 16-stop ND filters together with the Lee Filter Holder and Lee Lens Adapters and Lee Polarizing filter.

I've also heard about the Lee filter holder falling off someones lens. I have also heard about people who sling their tripod over their shoulder with both the camera and filter system still attached, and then complaining that the filter holder fell off "just because of some small branches". The release is spring loaded and will come off if you press from the backside where the release is, but not by itself. It has never been an issue for me. I think this is more of a case where if you use common sense it won't be a problem.

The filters I have are not color neutral. They leave a blue and green tint. I suspect the higher ND's have more tint then the lower ND's have, but I cannot be sure. However, it's easily fixed in post using the white balance temp and tint tools. And I haven't used the Lee ND filters so I cannot say if it's better or worse.

Hope this helps.

 

[keithfullermusic]

Have the 16 and 10 stop versions.....have not performed any side by side tests but appear to be as neutral as possible. I have seen them mentioned in several filter discussions but almost universally ignored in the discussion. Maybe the firecrest filters get confused with F-H's previous filters. Maybe F-H does not do a good job promoting them or getting them compared to Lee or Sing-Ray.

I use the circular almost exclusively but they also have square-rectangular options. These are very thin filters and thus are less prone to vignette and better for stacking for that reason. Wish they were brass mounts but have had no problem with the aluminum. My B&H filters and others I used to use are on a shelf at home.

Thanks for the response. So you use the circular as opposed to square ones if I read that correctly.

Are you happy with them, or do you notice some frustrations and/or annoyances with flare/etc.?

 

[keithfullermusic]

Hi Keith,

I use the Lee 100mm system, and I've never had an issue with the filter holder falling off. If anything, I'm impressed by the ease of use and quality after carrying it around on a trip to Europe. The Lee adapter rings are expensive, so I wonder if the people having trouble bought cheaper adapters that didn't fit as well.

A few things I noticed: glass filters are easier to clean because they don't scratch as easily and resin filters (like the graduated ND) can be difficult to blow off because of dust clinging with static electricity. Also, shoot a grey card on location and you can easily take care of any color cast in post. I only have a Little Stopper so I can't speak to the color cast issue.

that's a good point about the "cheap" adapter rings. also, about the little stopper, i haven't heard anything but good reviews about it. while 6 stops is pretty crazy, it's nothing compared to 10 or 16, and i think that's where the real color cast issues tend to set in.

 

[keithfullermusic]

Hi

I use the Formatt Hitec Firecrest 4x4 10-stop, 13-stop and 16-stop ND filters together with the Lee Filter Holder and Lee Lens Adapters and Lee Polarizing filter.

I've also heard about the Lee filter holder falling off someones lens. I have also heard about people who sling their tripod over their shoulder with both the camera and filter system still attached, and then complaining that the filter holder fell off "just because of some small branches". The release is spring loaded and will come off if you press from the backside where the release is, but not by itself. It has never been an issue for me. I think this is more of a case where if you use common sense it won't be a problem.

The filters I have are not color neutral. They leave a blue and green tint. I suspect the higher ND's have more tint then the lower ND's have, but I cannot be sure. However, it's easily fixed in post using the white balance temp and tint tools. And I haven't used the Lee ND filters so I cannot say if it's better or worse.

Hope this helps.

thanks for your response, because i'm thinking that i'm going to end up with a mix of things - lee holder and grad nd's but with the firecrest 10 and 16 stoppers.

i tend to agree with your assessment about just using common sense when dealing with these things. however, i think that for the fairly outrageous prices of the holder and adapter rings they should be pretty sturdy - especially when you consider the amount of cash they are holding in those filters.

anyway, i noticed that you said they aren't neutral, but are they a pain to correct? i've heard that the lee big stopper can be extremely annoying at times, but it still seems to be the go-to choice for pros.

either way, are you happy with them?

thanks again for the response.

 

[lion rock]

I am quite satisfied with the Big Stopper. Just got the Little Stopper, too, though haven't shoot with it yet.
There's some blue cast with the Big Stopper. But shooting the sky doesn't hurt too much, it emphasizes the blues in the sky somewhat. I loaned the setup to a friend who shoots with Nikon on the same scene, and the blue was just unbearable. Didn't know what his settings were, I sort of suggested to him to go through color correction, but I haven't seen that yet.

The ring and frame clip-on were not truly secure; but no one should treat them like a screw in and move the camera and tripod over the shoulder and expect they stay on no matter the jarring. The glass filter is not shatter-proof on impact. My first Singh-Ray GND (polymer) busted by just clanging on a car door. I learned. If you take time to set up a scene for long exposure with a filter, you can also take the time to put the filter in the the carrying box and frame back in the backpack and unhook the camera from the tripod. <rant>On the rant side, the foam surround in the metal box for the Lee filter can be glued down to the bottom layer (Lee: hope you take the suggestion), as it tends to be come off and may get lost. It is needed to prevent the glass edge from contacting the metal tin, especially on the corners.</rant>
-r

 

[GuyF]

...The release is spring loaded and will come off if you press from the backside where the release is, but not by itself. It has never been an issue for me. I think this is more of a case where if you use common sense it won't be a problem.

Yup, the Lee Holder feels pretty secure under normal conditions but I managed to accidentally wrench it off the front of my 16-35 f4 a few weeks ago. I was hanging out a train window in the Scottish west highlands and pulled myself back in pretty rapidly to avoid having my head taken off by some branches. I looked down at my camera and thought, "there's something missing here...". I'd lost the holder, polariser adapter ring and an ND filter thanks to the protruding bottom part of the filter catching the top of the lowered window. Now there's £160 worth of Lee stuff lying by the rail track. I'm sure there's a moral to this story but damned if I can find it...much like my lost gear.

At least the lens and adapter ring survived. I'd have been totally gutted if I'd had the 105mm polariser on at the time.

Will be ordering replacements next week.

:'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

 

[keithfullermusic]

Yup, the Lee Holder feels pretty secure under normal conditions but I managed to accidentally wrench it off the front of my 16-35 f4 a few weeks ago. I was hanging out a train window in the Scottish west highlands and pulled myself back in pretty rapidly to avoid having my head taken off by some branches. I looked down at my camera and thought, "there's something missing here...". I'd lost the holder, polariser adapter ring and an ND filter thanks to the protruding bottom part of the filter catching the top of the lowered window. Now there's £160 worth of Lee stuff lying by the rail track. I'm sure there's a moral to this story but damned if I can find it...much like my lost gear.

At least the lens and adapter ring survived. I'd have been totally gutted if I'd had the 105mm polariser on at the time.

Will be ordering replacements next week.

:'( :'( :'( :'( :'(

that's awful, and it's exactly why i'm a little freaked out to buy the lee setup. my old cokin p stuff was hard plastic that sort of clipped on the adapter. once it was on there it could easily swivel, but that sucker wasn't coming off. sometimes, i think good companies over-engineer there stuff (ie. lee). i've also heard people say that the cheaper Cokin Z Pro holder is actually better for various reasons - one of which being that it will no accidentally fall off.

also - i live in glasgow, but i'm going up to loch ness, skye, and inverness in a few weeks and i was wondering if you have any suggested places to snap some shots.

 

[GuyF]

Keith,

I did a rail tour up to Fort William which was then haulled by steam engine across to Mallaig. Ultimately an expensive trip! Since you're in Glasgow, you should know which parts of the north are ripe for landscape shots - everywhere north of Loch Lomond, Rannoch Moor, Ben Dorain, the church at Polnish, Old Man of Stor, Black Cuillins, Loch Eilt, Glen Miller, Loch Awe, Loch Jaw, Invertumshie, Ben Doon and Ben Dover, honestly, you couldn't make it up

Plenty scope to use ND grads.

Have fun.

 

[lion rock]

Well, the Cokin adaptor wasn't too secure either. I was shooting cherry blossoms in DC about 3 years ago with my Cokin and Singh-Ray GND and after that I walked away and someone yell at me. Being in DC., one has to be careful especially when someone yells at you. I tried to ignore him and kept walking. The yelling became more urgent and I looked back at the guy. He pointed at the ground. It was my filter and holder there on the ground. The little protrusion was not enough to keep the holder from falling.
Well I thank the guy and picked up the parts and went my merry way, somewhat sheepishly, too.
Not being careless is the key. Take time to put away the toys when done.
-r

 

[wsmith96]

by chance, i started looking into the Hi-Tech Formatt Firecrest filters and they look amazing. even the reviews (i've only found a few) say that they prefer them to their Lee stuff, because they have nearly no color cast and aren't easy-to-break glass.

I realize this is no help, but I'm in the same boat as you. I'll be investing in a filter system and I ran across the same thing where the Formatt-Hitech products look to be good. I also have not found a poor review of their products. I was going to give them a shot once I saved up enough for one of their landscape kits.

 

[ScaneLife]

Have you looked into VU filters? I think they are a newish company.....I have both circular 82mm and the 100x100 and 100x150 (sion version) filters. They are made of glass, not plastic. The holder is really nice and you can screw a circular filter onto it to use behind the drop in filters...and if using a circular polarizer it is controlled from the back of the filter so you can still adjust it even while there are filters in front of it. I can't give much opinion on the optics except to say that I am very happy with the performance.... I have never tried the others. It seems the price is very good too for what you get, even though the filter holder seems more expensive that the other brands, It is very well made though. Anyway, just wanted to let you know about them.

 

[AlexB]

Hi

I use the Formatt Hitec Firecrest 4x4 10-stop, 13-stop and 16-stop ND filters together with the Lee Filter Holder and Lee Lens Adapters and Lee Polarizing filter.

I've also heard about the Lee filter holder falling off someones lens. I have also heard about people who sling their tripod over their shoulder with both the camera and filter system still attached, and then complaining that the filter holder fell off "just because of some small branches". The release is spring loaded and will come off if you press from the backside where the release is, but not by itself. It has never been an issue for me. I think this is more of a case where if you use common sense it won't be a problem.

The filters I have are not color neutral. They leave a blue and green tint. I suspect the higher ND's have more tint then the lower ND's have, but I cannot be sure. However, it's easily fixed in post using the white balance temp and tint tools. And I haven't used the Lee ND filters so I cannot say if it's better or worse.

Hope this helps.

thanks for your response, because i'm thinking that i'm going to end up with a mix of things - lee holder and grad nd's but with the firecrest 10 and 16 stoppers.

i tend to agree with your assessment about just using common sense when dealing with these things. however, i think that for the fairly outrageous prices of the holder and adapter rings they should be pretty sturdy - especially when you consider the amount of cash they are holding in those filters.

anyway, i noticed that you said they aren't neutral, but are they a pain to correct? i've heard that the lee big stopper can be extremely annoying at times, but it still seems to be the go-to choice for pros.

either way, are you happy with them?

thanks again for the response.

You're welcome.

About the filter holders first: Lee and Formatt Hitec each took their own approach on this, and they both have pro's and con's. Regarding the Formatt Hitec I can only comment on what I have seen, as I haven't used it personally.

The Lee filter holder is designed to be quick and easy to put on and off. And it is also easy to rotate it for adjusting grads and/or polarizing filters since it's not screwed tight on the lens. The negative side of this is that it is not as rock solid as the Formatt Hitec holder.

The Formatt Hitec uses a single screw knob to secure the filter holder to the lens. You first slide the holder onto the lens adapter and then tighten the knob. Once the knob is tightened the filter holder is on there rock solid. So the cons would be that it takes a little bit more time to put on the lens. But what got me is that there is nothing else then that little screw securing your filter holder onto the adapter. If that screw comes just a little bit loose, the filter holder will no longer be secured. Also if you want to rotate the holder you have to loosen the screw and then be careful so it doesn't come off or slides too far forward.

This is what I researched before purchasing. I choose the Lee because in my mind that was the better choice for me, but it may not be right for you. All I can say is I'm happy with my choice.

PS: There is nothing that isn't sturdy about the Lee filter holder. Regarding the holder falling off the lens, it takes quite a bit of pressure from the camera side of the adapter to make it come off. I have no idea how some people have managed to have it fall off on it's own.

Regarding the filters I don't have any reason not to be happy with them. The color cast is easy to correct in Lightroom or Photoshop Camera Raw. All you need to do is adjust the white balance. Normally I have to go high on the kelvin scale and a far bit over to the magenta side.

One thing to note is that the filters doesn't come with the gasket already attached. It can be a bit tricky to get on, and once it's on you cannot get it off again. A tip here is don't remove the center piece of the foam, just leave it there and you'll be fine.

 

[Deleted member 91053]

I am currently building my 100mm filter system and have a few Formatt-Hitech filters as well as their Firecrest 82mm CPL.
I am not an expert on CPL filters but the Firecrest seems significantly better than my Hoya and Kood CPLs - but to be faier they were much cheaper!
Most Formatt-Hitech filters come in either glass or resin so the choice is yours. I have been told that the advantages of the resin filters is that they are more robust and that the tinting is in the resin rather that a coating - though I am not certain of this. Naturally the glass versions are more scratch proof - but is the coating? Probably swings and roundabouts!
I have one of their older ND 0.6 filters which shows little if any colour cast - certainly not worth correcting. I also have one of their older model ND3 (10 stop) filters which does show a colour cast that can be corrected.My latest acquisition is one of their Pro Stop 6 Stop nd filter which gives little cast. Additionally I occasionally use 2 friends Formatt-Hitech filters as they have a lot more of them than I do.
Overall I am very pleased with the newer versions which display significantly less cast than the older models (no longer produced?). Their Firecrest range are top notch quality - but are priced to match.
I cannot say that they are better or worse than Lee filters as I haven't compared enough of them to form any worthwhile opinion, but my friends Pro Stop 10 stop did seem to have less cast than a Lee Big Stopper that I tried.
If you want to go really silly Formatt-Hitech now make 16 stop ND filters - best bring along a picnic if you are using one of those!

 

[jd7]

At the risk of derailing the thread, I have a question for the OP - and anyone else who feels like responding:
what has made you decide to get a 100m filter system?

The reason I ask is that earlier in the year I started getting interested in buying a square/rectangular filter system but was having trouble deciding whether to go with the smaller Cokin-P size (about 85mm?) or the 100mm size.

Apart from being smaller, the Cokin-P size filters are signficantly cheaper. But the trade off seems to be that once you go wider than about 28mm focal length, you get hard vignetting if you have a 3-stack filter holder. If you switch to a one filter holder (eg the Cokin-P wide angle holder or take a standard holder and cut off the brackets for two of the filters) you can get to about 21mm(?) before you get hard vignetting.

The 100mm size is larger and more expensive, but you seem to be able to stack three filters without hard vignetting at a focal length as wide as about 18mm. I think I may have read you can even get to 16mm on the 16-35 f/4 IS (perhaps because of the placement of the filter thread), but I could be wrong about that.

Anyway, looking into filter systems led me to start reading up on exposure blending in software, and to articles like this - http://shuttermuse.com/why-sold-my-graduated-neutral-density-filter/

I am now trying to decide to between just buying a couple of screw on ND filters for long exposures (I was given a vari-ND a while ago and have been using that, but the vari-ND filters have a few issues because of the physics involved) and doing exposure blending in software, or getting a Cokin-P size system, or getting a 100mm size system.

So, to come back to my original question - I would be very interested to know what has prompted your decision to go for a 100mm system rather than a Cokin-P size system (I'm presuming it is just how wide a focal length you can use before there is hard vignetting?), and why a square/rectangular system at all rather than just blending exposures in software?

Thanks in advance.

 

[keithfullermusic]

At the risk of derailing the thread, I have a question for the OP - and anyone else who feels like responding:
what has made you decide to get a 100m filter system?

it's a valid question, but i think i have a valid answer. i used to shoot on a crop body a long time ago, and i just decided to dabble in filters, but didn't want to spend too much. so i ended up buying a cokin p holder with various filters, and i absolutely loved them. however, any sort of long exposure meant i had to go to BW because the color shifts were everywhere. i realized early on that i loved filters and wanted to upgrade to something better.

then i got a FF camera a couple years back and haven't been able to use the filters on certain lenses because you actually see the filter holder - meaning i have to get the larger 100mm ones. also, i do a lot of landscape shots with telephoto lenses then merge them, so i need to have the versatility to put these things on any lens, so no circulars.

 

[mkihne]

Have the 16 and 10 stop versions.....have not performed any side by side tests but appear to be as neutral as possible. I have seen them mentioned in several filter discussions but almost universally ignored in the discussion. Maybe the firecrest filters get confused with F-H's previous filters. Maybe F-H does not do a good job promoting them or getting them compared to Lee or Sing-Ray.

I use the circular almost exclusively but they also have square-rectangular options. These are very thin filters and thus are less prone to vignette and better for stacking for that reason. Wish they were brass mounts but have had no problem with the aluminum. My B&H filters and others I used to use are on a shelf at home.

Sorry for the late reply. Trying to keep an already overburdened back pack as efficient as possible, I settled on circular filters. I carry polarizer and several ND filters including The 10 and 16 stop mentioned above. With the 16-35 f4 now at 77mm, I no longer need 82mm for my wide. For landscape I now carry the 16-35, 24-105(I have an extremely good copy....and if good enough for Art Wolfe...what can I say) and have traded out my 70-200 f4 without IS for the new 100-400 which does not take up much more room in my bag but added weight. So I can carry the 4-5 filters I routinely use in the space of a small prime lens.

While others prefer to correct a color cast flaw on every image out of the camera with neutral density filters I would rather start with an image with fewer flaws to begin with. In post with the selection tools, brushes and layer masks now available, I have not found a situation where I cannot produce an image I desire in post, rather than carry a bunch of gradient filters. I do bracket everything possible should I need more than one image to cover the dreaded DR issues. Have not found flare to be an issue any more than you might run into with other choices.

Long story short.....if I can choose a filter with little if any color shift vs the others, the choice is simple for me. If I can accomplish everything I need to do in post I choose not to deal with filter holders and associated issues while making my backpack as light as possible. Obviously everyone's situation differs.

 

[Halfrack]

I've got both the Lee and the Hitech holders - the Lee ones are much nicer, plus you can get the stack adapter (hold the filters at different angles). Make sure you have both the WA and normal filter rings, as the WA won't work with every lens - especially those that retract.

Lee doesn't do reverse grads, so Hitech is the answer there, but I have a color cast with the Hitech ND, but it isnt' the Firecrest line. My ND Grads are Lee, and work great.