Looking at 80d and 77d

Apr 10, 2018
2
0
Sacramento, Ca
Time to upgrade my T4i. In most all performance respects I have learned the 77d and 80d are alike. Size and weight differences don't matter and neither does weather sealing or video performance. I read the comparisons and probably the one thing that bothers me about the 77d are the comments it is like an upgraded Rebel with a more plastic feel than what the 80d has. The 77d is about a year newer than the 80d and has the Digic 7 processor instead of the 80d Digic 6. I don't know if that makes a performance difference between the two because ultimately, the word is the pictures look the same. In this case, the price makes the difference and I found 77d for $549 and 80d for $739 at *******&. However, I wanted to verify these were USA brand cameras and I learned they were not when I called the store direct. *********** and I jotted down the prices, but I can't find my notes at the moment. The USA models were higher priced, at least $100 more for each, but I think the 77d was about $250 cheaper when comparing the two. Because of this, I was leaning 77d before I even posted here, but over the last month, I've been waffling back and forth. I just wanted to know if there were any revelations or something I can't live without the 80d possessed, otherwise, I'm convinced the 77d is the camera that will suit my generalist picture-taking requirements. However, I've been getting more interested in taking pictures of birds and the 80d is faster all around, but nothing in my mind that will make a big difference, like 960 shots vs 600 shots, 1/8000 vs 1/4000, 7fps vs 6fps, 80d being the first statistic. Also the viewfinder has 100% coverage and brighter in the 80d while the 77d is 95% and dimmer. 77d has Bluetooth, 80d doesn't.

Name of Store removed by Mod. No free advertising for a questionable Store!
 
Aug 23, 2013
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Bahia Brazil
It depends on the use you will make of the camera.
80D has AFMA setting (useful for F2.8 or brighter lenses), flash sync up to 1/250, and headphone output for monitoring audio recording.
 
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YuengLinger

EOS 5D MK IV
Dec 20, 2012
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The 80D is an excellent camera, arguably the best xxD Canon has ever made. If you are planning to keep the camera for 4-5 years, the difference in price, unless your budget is painfully constrained, doesn't seem large enough to give up the better, very useful features.

The 77D seems more like a trade-in for what you already have, the T4i. The 80D would be a step up. The points made by ajfotofilmagem, plus the better specs you noted, make the 80D worth the higher price. It might be a camera you would appreciate more as you improve your photography.

On the other hand, for those who own only a kit lens or two, and who never aspire to more than snapshots, saving money by going with the 77D makes sense.
 

Mt Spokane Photography

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Mar 25, 2011
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When you say that you are interested in birds, do you mean flying ones, or perched ones? Close or far?

As soon as you try to photograph moving birds or those far away, expect to spend a lot more money that a camera costs. A good long telephoto lens with IS for still, a fast telephoto for flying birds. Both make the cost of a camera body look cheap.
You will want lots of light, and birds like nice shady places, so a flash or even multiple flashes for closer birds, and a fast lens for distant ones. A Full frame camera brings a lot more light to the sensor, but it also needs a longer focal length to fill the frame.

I'd say that you should set a budget, and a list of what you want to do in more detail. Then cross off items that result in exceeding your budget or modify them.

Go thru a good camera store too, Adorama or B&H have 30 day returns in case you get a camera that does not do the job. The Canon refurb store also has a return window, but its short. Refurb cameras can be a good value, same warranty, and like new condition. That might let you upgrade bodies at no additional cost.

1. Another big difference is AFMA or the ability to compensate for autofocus inaccuracies in lenses. This is something that I'd want in a camera where I was using autofocus with a fast lens, and worth the difference in price.

2. The difference in construction, of the viewfinder is pentamirror for the 77D and pentaprism for the 80D, a significant difference in viewfinder quality.

3. The Camera Digic processor makes a difference if you shoot jpeg images or video, not much for RAW images. Most of us here shoot RAW images where you convert to jpeg only after editing the image. That usually results in a improved image, but involves a skill and the right image software.

So, Here are some questions that came to mind.

1. What lenses do you own?

2. Are you willing to buy more?

3. Approximate budget range for the whole package.

4. Do you own a external flash, or do you use a on-camera flash? Are you willing to buy a external flash?

5. Do you shoot jpeg images or RAW? If jpeg, are you willing to spend the time and effort to use RAW.

6. What software do you use to post process (edit) images, or just take them out of camera.

7. Generalist shooting? What is this? Indoor family portraits or outdoors. Children playing, sports, wildlife, birds perched or flying, low light photos at night, or in museums, or ??


I'm sure there are more, but we can best offer a recommendation by knowing more.
 
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Michael Clark

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For me the deal-killer for the 77D would be lack of AFMA. Period.

It's most critical for wide aperture, long focal length lenses. Even with very high end lenses, you need to be able to adjust for the differences in manufacturing tolerances between the lens and the camera. But it also can be significant for shorter focal lengths with wide apertures.

Of the seven lenses I use the most, only one of them (EF 135mm f/2) on only one of the three bodies I use (5D3) the most has a current AFMA setting of '0'. That's one out of 21 lens+body combinations with 29 adjustments (The 5D3 and 7D2 have a separate adjustment for both ends of zoom lenses).

The bodies: EOS 5D Mark III, EOS 7D Mark II, EOS 5D Mark II

The lenses: EF 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS II, EF 24-70mm f/2.8 L, EF 24-105mm f/4 L IS, EF 17-40mm f/4 L, EF 135mm f/2, EF 50mm f/1.4, EF 35mm f/2.

When I rent a Super Telephoto prime, they always need a bit of AFMA adjustment to dial them in.
 
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Durf

Picture Taker - Image Maker
It would be a no brainer for me to pay the extra money and get the 80D, it's a much better camera than any Rebel style camera in my opinion.

I've been shooting with it since spring of 2016 and absolutely love it. Even today, almost 3 years later, if something happened to it I'd replace it with another 80D. I'd only consider the 7D Mark iii as a replacement for it, but, of course we may never see that camera......
 

Michael Clark

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Another deciding factor is the highly available LP-E6 battery on 80D, against the LP-E17 that contains a chip and prevents the use of generic batteries in the Canon charger.
The LP-E6/LP-E6N also contains chips. Generic LP-E6 batteries may or may not have full functionality in newer Canon cameras that use LP-E6 batteries.

For example, I have some older MaximalPower (bought via amazon) generics that work fine in the 5D Mark II (and 7D), but do not have full functionality in the 5D Mark III or 7D Mark II. When the camera is powered up, I get the "irregular communication" warning message and have to confirm that I want to use the batteries anyway. They power the camera, but the camera does not report the serial number of the battery. The 5D3 will give percentage of power remaining and shots taken with the battery, but the shot count gets reset to '0' each time the power is cycled. The 7D2 will allow the older generics to power it, but will not give any information regarding remaining power or shots taken.

I also have some more recent Maximal Power (amazon) LP-E6 generics that have full functionality in the newer bodies. I also have fairly recent STK (amazon) , Watson (B&H), and Pawa (B&H) generic LP-E6 generics that work the same as Canon LP-E6 batteries in the two newer bodies.
 

Mt Spokane Photography

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Mar 25, 2011
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All lithium ion batteries have chips, even the 3rd party ones. Some of the ebay batteries are low quality, but they still have a chip, the camera will reject it if it doesn't.

As Far as LP-E17, I bought a pair of 3rd party ones from Amazon after reviewing them as best I could. It was for basically a 1 time backup in case my original did not hold up. (It Did). They work fine with my SL2 and the charger, but there are some that don't. Every time a new body is released, expect to wait until a new battery chip comes out for the 3rd party batteries and then get a new battery. I normally buy only Canon batteries for full time use, so I was very concerned about the 3rd party battery safety. Eventually, I decided to use my Case Relay with a good quality USB battery for backup in case my Canon batteries don't last. I can use it with my R or my 5D MK IV. It is rated at 100.5 watt hours, a LP-E is just under 13 watt hours, so it can run my camera for about 7 or 8 times the life of a LP-E6. Its not very friendly for carrying around, the battery can be in a pocked, and the cord is plenty long. I use it where I have camera on tripod and the battery is attached with Velcro straps to a leg. There are more powerful batteries, you need to check FAA regulations, some are too large to carry on a airplane. There are plenty of chargers powered from a USB source for LP-E6 batteries, I'd be afraid to use one on a expensive Canon battery.
 

Joules

EOS RP
Jul 16, 2017
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Hamburg, Germany
Just some impressions on using the 80D: I had the 600D (T3i) for over 6 years now and the 80D for just over 1 year.

The 80D is a great upgrade to the 600D. The most notable differences are the cleaner images and the ergonomics. Picking up the 600D after a while of using just the 80D just feels cramped and relatively speaking unpleasant.

However, the little customization options and details like the far better viewfinder and the custom modes make it feal really great. Those are missing from the 77D as far as I know.

I also wouldn't give up AFMA, as my EF-S 10-18mm IS STM and EF 85mm 1.8 were almost useless in AF on the 600D due to focus issues. I used MF back on that camera anyway, since I didn't care for shooting with the voewfinder and LiveView AF was terrible. With the 80D Viewfinder, I can finally see why some people actually prefere that over an LCD, be it in LiveView or an EVF.
 
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Aug 23, 2013
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The LP-E6/LP-E6N also contains chips. Generic LP-E6 batteries may or may not have full functionality in newer Canon cameras that use LP-E6 batteries.

For example, I have some older MaximalPower (bought via amazon) generics that work fine in the 5D Mark II (and 7D), but do not have full functionality in the 5D Mark III or 7D Mark II. When the camera is powered up, I get the "irregular communication" warning message and have to confirm that I want to use the batteries anyway. They power the camera, but the camera does not report the serial number of the battery. The 5D3 will give percentage of power remaining and shots taken with the battery, but the shot count gets reset to '0' each time the power is cycled. The 7D2 will allow the older generics to power it, but will not give any information regarding remaining power or shots taken.

I also have some more recent Maximal Power (amazon) LP-E6 generics that have full functionality in the newer bodies. I also have fairly recent STK (amazon) , Watson (B&H), and Pawa (B&H) generic LP-E6 generics that work the same as Canon LP-E6 batteries in the two newer bodies.
When I researched the possible purchase of a T7i, I realized that on Ebay there was no generic LP-E17 battery that ran on the original Canon charger. Things may have changed since then, but at the time it seemed to me much worse than simply not reporting the remaining capacity accurately.
 

stevelee

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Jul 6, 2017
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Just some impressions on using the 80D: I had the 600D (T3i) for over 6 years now and the 80D for just over 1 year.

The 80D is a great upgrade to the 600D. The most notable differences are the cleaner images and the ergonomics. Picking up the 600D after a while of using just the 80D just feels cramped and relatively speaking unpleasant.

However, the little customization options and details like the far better viewfinder and the custom modes make it feal really great. Those are missing from the 77D as far as I know.

I also wouldn't give up AFMA, as my EF-S 10-18mm IS STM and EF 85mm 1.8 were almost useless in AF on the 600D due to focus issues. I used MF back on that camera anyway, since I didn't care for shooting with the voewfinder and LiveView AF was terrible. With the 80D Viewfinder, I can finally see why some people actually prefere that over an LCD, be it in LiveView or an EVF.
I used my T3i for many years, until a year and a half ago. I didn’t have any autofocus issues with it, but I have neither of those lenses. I do have the older and bigger 10-22, and that worked well enough that I made a little money shooting houses for realtors.

The 80D sounded like a perfect upgrade for me, but before I bought one, rumors of the 6D2 had starred, and I decided to wait and upgrade to FF instead. From my experience with the 6D2 and what I know of the similarities, I’m not at all surprised that you are pleased with 80D.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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When I researched the possible purchase of a T7i, I realized that on Ebay there was no generic LP-E17 battery that ran on the original Canon charger. Things may have changed since then, but at the time it seemed to me much worse than simply not reporting the remaining capacity accurately.
The newer Canon LC-E6 chargers refuse to charge older generic LP-E6 batteries as well. The chargers that came with my EOS 5D Mark III and 7D mark II will not charge my older generic LP-E6 batteries, but they will charge the newest third party versions, some of which are from the same third party brand.

It's always a cat-and-mouse game between the third party battery makers and Canon. With LP-E6 batteries being so ubiquitous, even beyond powering Canon devices (many off-camera monitors and other video-centric devices use LP-E6 batteries), it usually only takes a few weeks for the third party battery makers to update the firmware in their batteries to work with a new version of Canon's battery protocol in its chargers and cameras.
 
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Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
909
429
Just some impressions on using the 80D: I had the 600D (T3i) for over 6 years now and the 80D for just over 1 year.

The 80D is a great upgrade to the 600D. The most notable differences are the cleaner images and the ergonomics. Picking up the 600D after a while of using just the 80D just feels cramped and relatively speaking unpleasant.

However, the little customization options and details like the far better viewfinder and the custom modes make it feal really great. Those are missing from the 77D as far as I know.

I also wouldn't give up AFMA, as my EF-S 10-18mm IS STM and EF 85mm 1.8 were almost useless in AF on the 600D due to focus issues. I used MF back on that camera anyway, since I didn't care for shooting with the voewfinder and LiveView AF was terrible. With the 80D Viewfinder, I can finally see why some people actually prefere that over an LCD, be it in LiveView or an EVF.
The 77D does have a "Rebel" level viewfinder, but it also has many of the higher level features of the x0D series: The same AF system as the 80D including the higher configurability options, an RGB+IR color light meter, more movie codec options, dual Tv/Av controls in manual exposure mode, faster frame rate/much deeper buffer, etc.
 

Mt Spokane Photography

I post too Much on Here!!
Mar 25, 2011
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The 77D does have a "Rebel" level viewfinder, but it also has many of the higher level features of the x0D series: The same AF system as the 80D including the higher configurability options, an RGB+IR color light meter, more movie codec options, dual Tv/Av controls in manual exposure mode, faster frame rate/much deeper buffer, etc.
Its definitely not a bad camera, but if you want to use wide aperture lenses, that is where AFMA is usually needed, and the lack of it can frustrate attempts to use autofocus and get razor sharp images.

Fortunately, using live view and dual pixel autofocus bypasses lens AF accuracy issues. I use it on my 5D MK IV because AF tends to be more accurate, and is quite fast. It becomes a lot like my R, enough so that I did not have much to learn with the R. So, if you can or will use live AF, the 77D looks like a good choice.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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Its definitely not a bad camera, but if you want to use wide aperture lenses, that is where AFMA is usually needed, and the lack of it can frustrate attempts to use autofocus and get razor sharp images.

Fortunately, using live view and dual pixel autofocus bypasses lens AF accuracy issues. I use it on my 5D MK IV because AF tends to be more accurate, and is quite fast. It becomes a lot like my R, enough so that I did not have much to learn with the R. So, if you can or will use live AF, the 77D looks like a good choice.
As I said much earlier in this thread, lack of AFMA would be a deal breaker for me. But the comment to which I was responding made it sound like the 77D was a lot less like the 80D than it is.
 

Joules

EOS RP
Jul 16, 2017
274
181
Hamburg, Germany
The 77D does have a "Rebel" level viewfinder, but it also has many of the higher level features of the x0D series: The same AF system as the 80D including the higher configurability options, an RGB+IR color light meter, more movie codec options, dual Tv/Av controls in manual exposure mode, faster frame rate/much deeper buffer, etc.
Sure enough. I wasn't trying to say that the 77D is bad or similar to the 600D. As I said, I just wanted to give some impressions about using the 80D.

And as it stands, after the better grip and buttons (which the 77D mostly shares with the 80D) the viewfinder and customization options, namely the custom modes, (which the 77D lacks) are what I found to make the biggest difference compared to the 600D.

But you have point, I should have written that more precisely.
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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Sure enough. I wasn't trying to say that the 77D is bad or similar to the 600D. As I said, I just wanted to give some impressions about using the 80D.

And as it stands, after the better grip and buttons (which the 77D mostly shares with the 80D) the viewfinder and customization options, namely the custom modes, (which the 77D lacks) are what I found to make the biggest difference compared to the 600D.

But you have point, I should have written that more precisely.
The number of custom modes doesn't really mean a whole lot when comparing different camera models. What is a "Custom Function" in one camera is often a regular menu item in another. For instance, the 5D Mark II has 8 or 9 "C.Fn" settings related to autofocus. The 5D Mark III has no "C.Fn." settings related to AF. Why? Because Canon expanded the regular menu and included a full five menu tabs devoted strictly to AF with 14-15 different setting items plus six "Use Cases" with three adjustable parameters each!
 

Joules

EOS RP
Jul 16, 2017
274
181
Hamburg, Germany
The number of custom modes doesn't really mean a whole lot when comparing different camera models. What is a "Custom Function" in one camera is often a regular menu item in another. For instance, the 5D Mark II has 8 or 9 "C.Fn" settings related to autofocus. The 5D Mark III has no "C.Fn." settings related to AF. Why? Because Canon expanded the regular menu and included a full five menu tabs devoted strictly to AF with 14-15 different setting items plus six "Use Cases" with three adjustable parameters each!
I'm talking about the custom modes on the mode dial, C1 and C2. The 80D has them, the 77D doesn't. As far as I'm aware there's no way to save custom modes if you don't have those modes on the dial.

And I find them usefull. I have C1 configured for single Point AF with the exposure set so that it is suitable for birds and animals in the shade. And the C2 is my BIF / Action mode, with zone AF, shorter Shutter time and some focus setrings for better tracking. Without these custom modes, I would probably fond the customization options in the menu less usefull, as they would have to be applied globally, right?
 

Michael Clark

Now we see through a glass, darkly...
Apr 5, 2016
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I'm talking about the custom modes on the mode dial, C1 and C2. The 80D has them, the 77D doesn't. As far as I'm aware there's no way to save custom modes if you don't have those modes on the dial.

And I find them usefull. I have C1 configured for single Point AF with the exposure set so that it is suitable for birds and animals in the shade. And the C2 is my BIF / Action mode, with zone AF, shorter Shutter time and some focus setrings for better tracking. Without these custom modes, I would probably fond the customization options in the menu less usefull, as they would have to be applied globally, right?
Ahhh, you mean the "Custom Shooting Modes?" (a/k/a "Custom Presets")

I'm surprised the 80D has more than the one that the 70D and 60D had. The last x0D I've owned was the 50D that had two. All three of the bodies I currently use have three, and I do use them at times.