Lots of Talk, Very Little Solid Information About Canon's Next Cameras

KirkD

EOS M50
Nov 23, 2017
48
11
Canada
kirkdurston.wixsite.com
neuroanatomist said:
kalieaire said:
Canon edged out Nikon in the professional market. And now Sony is beginning to edge Canon out.
Do you have even a shred of evidence to support that claim?
Four shreds of evidence: First, a local video studio that has around 12 full time staff, and was once completely Canon DSLR for shooting their videos, has completely abandoned Canon for Sony as of this year. In talking with their director, all the other pro studios he knows of are going over to Sony this year. Second, I know of three pro photographers who dumped Canon this year in favour of Sony. Third, check out sales of the new Sony A7III, which have been way more than Sony ever anticipated. Thus far, they have not been able to keep up with orders (check out B&H for example). The big loser on this one will be the Canon 6D II. Fourth, I'm trying to hang in here with my investment in Canon glass, but for videos, I've already started using a Sony a6500 for 4K shooting. Yes, these are just "shreds", but fifth, check out the third quarter sales for Canon 6D's vs Sony A7III and I expect you will see a sharp downturn in Canon DSLR sales once the Sony A7III buying frenzy has really made its mark. There is only one thing keeping me in the Canon fold right now, and that is the money I've sunk into Canon glass.
 

HarryFilm

EOS RP
Jun 6, 2016
368
26
Mikehit said:
neuroanatomist said:
kalieaire said:
Canon edged out Nikon in the professional market. And now Sony is beginning to edge Canon out.
Do you have even a shred of evidence to support that claim?
But..but.. three youtubers switched. Canon are doomed.
YOU"RE RIGHT !!!!! Canon is Truly Doomed !!!!

I unfortunately get to help it become even MORE DOOMED because THIS is what is coming out from a certain camera manufacturer which at this point shall remain nameless...BUT NOW...has my codec in it's products:

I ENSURED VIA AN IRON-CLAD CONTRACT, THE FOLLOWING ITEMS HAVE BEEN SET to come to market!

1) A Very Large Sensor 65mm Medium Format
COMBINED Stills and Video Camera is coming out:

a) It has 8192 by 6144 pixels at a 4:3 aspect ratio with recording
at multiple user-selectable common cinema and video aspect ratios.
It supports multiple anamorphic modes and lenses.

b) It has 16-bits per colour channel with RGB + Depth Map Channel (64-bits pixel)
You can attach a Microsoft Kinect-like device to its USB port to obtain
millimeter-level distance-to-sensor accuracies at short distances (25 meters)
and sub-meter accuracies at long distances (200 meters). It is being looked
at to build the depth map emitters/sensors INTO the front of the lenses!

c) It shoots at 25 fps Burst rate at 50 megapixels

d) It has a 6.xx microns per photosite Bayer Pattern sensor.
It is NOT YET Global Shutter BUT a global shutter sensor is
being designed and will be made available for a future version!
Rolling shutter is on par with Canon 1Dx Mk2 which is VERY GOOD!

e) It has 4:4:4 Uncompressed RAW and RGB+D 4:4:4/4:2:2 at 16/14/12/10/8-bits
per channel and Bitmap/JPEG-2000/JPEG still photos with a depth map channel.

f) It has 4:4:4 Uncompressed RAW and 2:1, 3:1 and 4:1 Run-length and ZIP-like
encoded RAW video at 16/14/12/10/8-bits per channel + depth map video
saved internally to removable SSD drives (there are TWO SSD connectors)
and via the two HDMI and two Display port video out ports. The output ports
can be set INDEPENDENTLY to have the metadata/onscreen display overlays
AND/OR be set to FULLY CLEAN DCI/HDTV/UHDTV 2K and 4K output resolutions.
Typically two of the 2-or-4-terabyte SSD flash drives are inserted!
Two UHS-3 slots for SDXC and SDUC cards are on-camera for parallel
writing of one copy of imagery put to each card for maximum safety OR
sequential writing for max capacity! (I insisted upon those two items!)
UHS-3 slots are for lower-res 4k/2K 422 video and 444/422 stills while
Two SSD SATA flash drives are for full 444/422 resolution/RAW stills and video
written in parallel for safety or in sequence for max capacity (user selectable).

g) It has DCI 4k (4096 x 2160 pixels), 3840x2160, 2048x1080p and 1920x1080p
4:2:2 14/12/10/8-bits per channel + depth map INTERFRAME H.265-like
compressed video output to files and ports with each frame fully sampled
from the entire sensor at a full 60 fps. (Video can be made CLEAN on
all output ports)

h) It has interframe-compressed DCI 4K 120 fps 10 bit 4:2:2 video and
DCI 4K 240 fps 4:2:0 8-bit video to files and output ports cropped
from the middle of the sensor. I have insisted on a 300 fps and
480 fps 422 10-bit 2048x1080p and 1920x1080p mode written to
the container files and the codec buyer has agreed to ensure it
comes out on the first version of camera with NO extra licencing fee!
An Apple ProRes output file container is being looked at/designed for
a future BIOS update.

i) It has Date/Clock Time/SMPTE Timecode/GPS Location (Lat/Long/Elevation)
and Camera-head 3D-XYZ rotation/orientation Metadata Stamps and other
user-definable Metadata Stamps embedded into every still photo and every
video frame OR embedded at every GOP (Group of Frames) which is
user-selectable and streamed out live via the USB-3.1 port, Gigabit Ethernet
port or the Wi-Fi port and/or directly embedded into the saved video files
and/or the HDMI/DisplayPort video streams.

j) It is low-light and low-noise-specific engineered BETTER THAN the Sony A7s2
AND has body and lens weather sealing SIMILAR to the Canon 1Dx Mk2!
It can also act as a very expensive 8K stills and DCI 4K/2K Video Webcam
as it has a Gigabit Ethernet port and FAST Wi-Fi and all its Iris/Zoom/Focus/etc
settings can be controlled from afar by wireless Wi-Fi interconnect or the Cat-6
RJ-45 connector or the USB-3.1 connector. (I INSISTED upon that functionality!)

h) It has a very ergonomic moveable/changeable grip and the body
has a fully rotating/swivelling up-to-120 fps OLED 2.7k Live View screen

i) Multiple lenses are coming out right from the starting gate!
Both Zooms and Primes of VERY high quality! Lens prices will
be commensurate with quality of lenses. Future versions of lenses
will have a depth-map emitter and sensor system built-into the
front of the lens.

j) Battery life for Stills AND Video is phenomenal because the
battery system is much larger than most other systems

k) IS SET TO BE MUCH Cheaper than the Hasselblad and Phase-One cameras!


2) A series of large sensor Android smartphones (Four-thirds AND an APS-C
at 28.4mm diagonal size) with 4K screens and 16 Gigabytes of SYSTEM RAM
and 128 GB and 256 GB of built-in storage is coming out! One phone will
have an interchangeable lens. I won't yet say which mount because that
would be too obvious!) Stills are 20+ Megapixels 4:4:4/4:2:2 RAW/JPEG-2000/JPEG
and video is 4096x2160 at 60 fps 10 bits 4:2:2 Interframe H.265-like encoded.

3) A DCI 8K (8192 by 4380 pixel) 65mm GLOBAL SHUTTER video/cinema
with fully uncompressed 120 fps 16-bits per channel RAW/RGB+D camera is
ALSO being introduced with more details coming later.

It will surpass the Arri Alexa-65 in capability using a single DCI 8k
Bayer sensor and NOT the 3 stitched-together sensors the Alexa-65 uses!
It will ALSO support anamorphic images and lenses up to 2.35/2.40:1 aspect ratio!

AND REMEMBER!

YOU HEARD THIS ---CORPORATE APPROVED LEAK--- HERE FIRST !!!!!!!!!!
 

9VIII

EOR R
Feb 8, 2013
1,843
0
scyrene said:
Threads like this make me consider leaving this forum. Next to no information, and ANOTHER barrage of meaningless, pointless, exaggerated complaining, 'I know ten guys who've swapped to Sony', 'I won't but another Canon unless they include XY and Z', and very wrong comparisons with Kodak and Nokia (though Sears is a new one - I thought Blackberry was the third of the 'failure trinity'). I guess Mr CR wants clicks though, and clicks from trolls are worth as much as anyone's ::)
Leave the forum? Or leave enthusiast level photography?

Even if CR were intentionally trolling for clicks, that’s actually an honest business compared to review sites.
Especially one that is owned by the biggest retailer in the world, and needs to write articles to make excuses for their blatant support of a brand war: https://www.dpreview.com/articles/5446051925/brands-and-breakthroughs-here-s-why-you-ve-heard-so-much-about-sony-recently

The reality of modern photography culture is that Amazon has created a conflict of interest in almost every product review on the internet today.
The words “you don’t need to upgrade”, or “your old camera is still amazing”, or look at all this cheap used gear” will never be heard in another review ever again.
The current community of online reviewers cannot exist unless people use affiliate codes to buy products. No matter how honest a reviewer wants to be, if they use an affiliate program they directly profit from positive reviews.
 

9VIII

EOR R
Feb 8, 2013
1,843
0
HarryFilm said:
YOU"RE RIGHT !!!!! Canon is Truly Doomed !!!!

I unfortunately get to help it become even MORE DOOMED because THIS is what is coming out from a certain camera manufacturer which at this point shall remain nameless...BUT NOW...has my codec in it's products:
...
Last I heard this guy is just running a social engineering project, is that right?
 

HarryFilm

EOS RP
Jun 6, 2016
368
26
9VIII said:
HarryFilm said:
YOU"RE RIGHT !!!!! Canon is Truly Doomed !!!!

I unfortunately get to help it become even MORE DOOMED because THIS is what is coming out from a certain camera manufacturer which at this point shall remain nameless...BUT NOW...has my codec in it's products:
...
Last I heard this guy is just running a social engineering project, is that right?
---

NOPE! I coded a fancy fully-custom 4:4:4/4:2:2/4:1:1/4:2:0 16/14/12/10/8/6-bits per channel interframe and intraframe video/stills codec which my boss freaked-out upon when he saw my work and then exercised his legal right to my intellectual property and then turned around and sold it to a very large multimedia company who I FULLY INSISTED VIA IRONCLAD CONTRACT put out the above products with my codec built-in. They agreed and my Bell 429 is now on order...

IT IS VERY VERY VERY REAL...IT IS ---NOT--- A SOCIAL EXPERIMENT !!!!

I just can't talk too much ...BUT... for irony's sake they DID AGREE
to let me PURPOSEFULLY LEAK the specs on the CanonRumors website....

OH! THE SHEER IRONY...if not outright CHEEKINESS
of this leak being put on here first.....!!!

OK Canon -- We KNOW you're reading this! --- Guess Who Is Coming To Dinner?

I must admit her "body" is -S-P-E-C-T-A-C-U-L-A-R- !!!!
 

transpo1

EOS 7D MK II
Jan 12, 2011
718
70
rrcphoto said:
transpo1 said:
Yes, I’m sure the entire tech and business industries are wrong and you’re right. Of course.

It wasn’t a myth with Apple, by the way- they really did it over and over again. Which is why they have a 100 billion in the bank.
Apple found exploitable markets with innovative at the time features, and also created this little thing called the iTunes.
iTunes gives Apple a remarkable amount of money.
how you can think that this is similar to the camera industry is anyone's guess.

Canon adding more mirrorless isn't much of a disruption or even change in their mode of operation over the past 4+ years.

They have continually added and augmented their lines and increased the depth of their mirrorless lineup to date, pretty consistently.

It only stands to reason that they continue to do so.
Apple still makes most of their money on hardware, not services- last I checked, Canon was selling camera hardware.

Adding to and augmenting product lines results in disruption. There will be less DSLRs sold once they have prosumer and pro-level mirrorless.

I know you feel threatened by that, but don't worry- MILCs will not replace DSLRs anytime in the near future, but disrupt them? Yes, they will. That's natural.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
23,976
1,177
KirkD said:
neuroanatomist said:
kalieaire said:
Canon edged out Nikon in the professional market. And now Sony is beginning to edge Canon out.
Do you have even a shred of evidence to support that claim?
Four shreds of evidence: First, a local video studio that has around 12 full time staff, and was once completely Canon DSLR for shooting their videos, has completely abandoned Canon for Sony as of this year. In talking with their director, all the other pro studios he knows of are going over to Sony this year. Second, I know of three pro photographers who dumped Canon this year in favour of Sony. Third, check out sales of the new Sony A7III, which have been way more than Sony ever anticipated. Thus far, they have not been able to keep up with orders (check out B&H for example). The big loser on this one will be the Canon 6D II. Fourth, I'm trying to hang in here with my investment in Canon glass, but for videos, I've already started using a Sony a6500 for 4K shooting. Yes, these are just "shreds", but fifth, check out the third quarter sales for Canon 6D's vs Sony A7III and I expect you will see a sharp downturn in Canon DSLR sales once the Sony A7III buying frenzy has really made its mark. There is only one thing keeping me in the Canon fold right now, and that is the money I've sunk into Canon glass.
You're confusing anecdotes with evidence. It's a regrettably common error.

First, 'some people I know' and 'some people that know people that I know' are not, in any way, representative. Second, three whole people, wow...I just found four photographers who blogged that they switched from Sony back to Canon. Third, inability to meet demand can be due to high demand or low production...or a contrived restriction of shipments to drive perception of high demand. Fourth, no one cares what you —as an individual— buy or don't buy. Fifth, please share your sources for model-specific sales (to my knowledge, neither Canon nor Sony release that level of detail).

Sell the glass, switch to Sony. Or don't. No one cares, except you. And one more time – anecdotes aren't data.
 
Sony is not yet the top company, not by a long shot. Canon is still the market leader by a long way, Im unsure where some of this information comes from. Shaking up the market perhaps but not leading!

Without meaning to defending Canon, it remains to be that they are making some competent hardware for photographers of all types. Hardware which is durable as well as functional. Durable isn't exactly a quality I'd point out with Sony. Im sure most of us have seen the weather sealing tests, something which Sony is a long long way from being up to scratch with. Im not sure about other's on this forum, but if I was using Sony bodies, Id suggest I would have had to visit the service department multiple times because of this.
 

Talys

Canon 6DII
Feb 16, 2017
2,045
314
Vancouver, BC
transpo1 said:
Adding to and augmenting product lines results in disruption. There will be less DSLRs sold once they have prosumer and pro-level mirrorless.

I know you feel threatened by that, but don't worry- MILCs will not replace DSLRs anytime in the near future, but disrupt them? Yes, they will. That's natural.
We don't actually knows this for a fact. It's entirely possible EOS M decreased Canon's APSC DSLR sales, but it is also possible that it didn't or even that the line increased DSLR sales.

For example, person A may purchase an M5 instead of a T6i. That's one for mirrorless and scratch one for DSLR.

But Person B may have purchased an M5, but already owned a T6i, and wasn't going to buy another APSC DSLR in 2017 anyways. That's growing the pie, not stealing a slice.

And then Person C may have purchased an M5 because they didn't like their A6300. And then, they decided afterwards, that they like the Canon system, and bought an 80D, then the following year bought buy a 5D Mark 4.

It's just impossible to tell, because absent mirrorless cameras, DSLR sales were probably on a downward trend anyways, for various reasons that we all know, but significantly, because DSLRs are a very mature product. A lot of people are happy with their DSLR, so no matter how great the next DSLR is... the 5D Mark 3 does everything they need. It's no different than someone with a desktop PC -- there's a good likelihood that even if the new one has technological advances, many users simply won't care or be able to take advantage of that in a meaningful way.

Personally, I fall into the Person B category. I'm very happy with my DSLR, but that doesn't mean I won't buy a mirrorless and be happy with that too. And doing so doesn't mean that I won't buy a future DSLR, because fundamentally, I still find that there are definite advantages to an optical viewfinder, which just isn't going to happen with a mirrorless product.
 

ahsanford

Particular Member
Aug 16, 2012
7,942
490
neuroanatomist said:
You're confusing anecdotes with evidence. It's a regrettably common error.
Whatever. You and your words.

I personally know three guys who got kicked in the nuts. When I finish med school, I'm going to specialize in scrotal surgery to make mad bank off of the global nut-kicking epidemic. 8)

- A
 

transpo1

EOS 7D MK II
Jan 12, 2011
718
70
rrcphoto said:
transpo1 said:
rrcphoto said:
transpo1 said:
Good news for Canon lovers that there are some potentially unpredictable releases out there, especially with regard to MILC cameras.

Canon is now actually starting to disrupt their own product line and shake things up a bit, as recent executives have discussed.
no they haven't.

even if they add more mirrorless that's not going to disrupt anything.
No, they haven’t yet. But you are otherwise incorrect- an MILC with advanced features will disrupt their DSLR product line.
not really, it will be sold side by side and simply co exist with their other product lines.

Canon has shown a remarkable ability to add product lines without disrupting other lines. People tend to overthink both the importance of video and the importance of mirrorless.

The reason mirrorless is improving isn't because of mirrorless is because they are mature camera companies now (Fuji, Sony,etc) with mature product lines.

And if anything they have been disrupting Nikon, not Canon.
Mirrorless is improving but it's not because of mirrorless, it's because of the companies producing them? Hmm...sounds like a dubious distinction.

If people are overthinking the importance of mirrorless, why has Canon itself stated that they will push into this market? Also, an interesting- and yet dubious- point.

I think you just want to be right, and yet- you're not- and it's common sense. Any prosumer or pro MILC by Canon will alter (and therefore disrupt) the Canon DSLR product line. You're arguing semantics now, but it's a fact.

As I told another worried forum-dweller, though- don't worry- DSLRs won't be going anywhere. But disrupted they shall be, if Canon is smart enough to do it.
 

justawriter

EOS 80D
Sep 17, 2012
131
24
So all these guys with two digit posts showing up all the time, are they bots or trolls? I wonder if it pays well. Hmm. (a couple of phone calls later) HEY EVERYBODY, HERE ARE FIVE REASONS RICOH IS EATING SONY'S AND CANON'S LUNCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! THEY ARE DOOMED! DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 

dak723

EOS 6D MK II
Oct 26, 2013
1,141
434
scyrene said:
Threads like this make me consider leaving this forum. Next to no information, and ANOTHER barrage of meaningless, pointless, exaggerated complaining, 'I know ten guys who've swapped to Sony', 'I won't but another Canon unless they include XY and Z', and very wrong comparisons with Kodak and Nokia (though Sears is a new one - I thought Blackberry was the third of the 'failure trinity'). I guess Mr CR wants clicks though, and clicks from trolls are worth as much as anyone's ::)
Yes, alas, it is all about clicks. I don't know how many times I click the "Report to Moderator" button to report trolls and posts that do nothing but insult users. Nothing ever happens. This forum is turning into a joke.

But, yes, trolls means clicks. And ridiculous debate with folks arguing and defending inane and stupid opinions running rampant. Just look at this thread - 4 pages arguing about whether the the word "disrupt" is applicable for Canon''s move to mirrorless! The site - apparently - is redesigned, but it's the same old home to trolls that was before.
 

rrcphoto

EOS 5D MK IV
Jun 20, 2013
2,505
147
transpo1 said:
rrcphoto said:
transpo1 said:
rrcphoto said:
transpo1 said:
Good news for Canon lovers that there are some potentially unpredictable releases out there, especially with regard to MILC cameras.

Canon is now actually starting to disrupt their own product line and shake things up a bit, as recent executives have discussed.
no they haven't.

even if they add more mirrorless that's not going to disrupt anything.
No, they haven’t yet. But you are otherwise incorrect- an MILC with advanced features will disrupt their DSLR product line.
not really, it will be sold side by side and simply co exist with their other product lines.

Canon has shown a remarkable ability to add product lines without disrupting other lines. People tend to overthink both the importance of video and the importance of mirrorless.


The reason mirrorless is improving isn't because of mirrorless is because they are mature camera companies now (Fuji, Sony,etc) with mature product lines.

And if anything they have been disrupting Nikon, not Canon.
Mirrorless is improving but it's not because of mirrorless, it's because of the companies producing them?
you obviously have a reading problem with what i said, so let me phrase it differently. over the last 2-3 years the mirrorless companies finally have developed complete systems.

Thus their marketshares would naturally grow as they can complete as companies with camera systems, not just a camera. Canon has also stated that they will add cameras into niches where they see fit. Mirrorless and video particularly is a niche.

we also have absolutely no clue if they will disrupt versus augment.

EOS-M has it disrupted the rebel lineup? probably not particularly. Canon mirrorless isn't going to disrupt the 5D / 7D / 6D lineup anymore than canon adding the 5Ds disrupted the 5D 1DX lineup.

with canon continuing to grow marketshare, it's far more of a good working theory that EOS-M has augmented their lineup in particular markets, but hasn't disrupted their DSLR lineup overall.

otherwise, they wouldn't be suggesting a good growth of mirrorless in their financials and also at the same time illustrating marketshare growth in a declining market.

the M5 btw, is a prosumer camera body, same with the M6.

while they have sold well, Canon continues to rock out the xxD, rebels and super rebel lineups.
 

neuroanatomist

I post too Much on Here!!
Jul 21, 2010
23,976
1,177
transpo1 said:
...it's common sense. Any prosumer or pro MILC by Canon will alter (and therefore disrupt) the Canon DSLR product line. You're arguing semantics now, but it's a fact.
Yes, just like the EOS M lineup has disrupted Canon's APS-C DSLR lineup. Oh, wait..... ::)
 

RGF

How you relate to the issue, is the issue.
Jul 13, 2012
2,816
35
Like to see Canon's update to the 5D M4. Nikon scored a major accomplishment with the D850. Canon your turn at bat
 

ahsanford

Particular Member
Aug 16, 2012
7,942
490
RGF said:
Like to see Canon's update to the 5D M4. Nikon scored a major accomplishment with the D850. Canon your turn at bat
You realize the 5D5 is a solid 2-3 years away, right?

- A
 

pj1974

EOS 7D MK II
Oct 18, 2011
584
42
Adelaide, Australia
neuroanatomist said:
transpo1 said:
...it's common sense. Any prosumer or pro MILC by Canon will alter (and therefore disrupt) the Canon DSLR product line. You're arguing semantics now, but it's a fact.
Yes, just like the EOS M lineup has disrupted Canon's APS-C DSLR lineup. Oh, wait..... ::)
Yes, take me for example! I have owned Canon DSLRs for ~15 years. Recently purchased a Canon M5.

I still own a Canon 80D, 7D and um... well a few older DSLRs for 'timelapse' purposes ::)

So the introduction of mirrorless was very 'disruptive' very much so... to my bank account - for a little while!! lol

I look forward to the Canon M5 mkII... who knows what I'll own in 5 years time.

New bodies, perhaps?... Lenses, lots of lenses (?). Accessories, tons of accessories (!) and other photography 'stuff'. :p

My example is definitely not anecdotal it is very much 'representative' lol ;)

PJ
 

Drainpipe

It's all about the little things.
Aug 30, 2014
90
22
www.instagram.com
Chaitanya said:
More interested to know what lenses are coming out? More precisely a 180mm or 50/60mm FF macros. Also interested to see what Sigma and Tamron bring to Photokina in terms of macros.
I’m right there with you! An unexpected MP-E update would be fantastic.