Lots of Talk, Very Little Solid Information About Canon's Next Cameras

[9VIII]

YOU"RE RIGHT !!!!! Canon is Truly Doomed !!!!

I unfortunately get to help it become even MORE DOOMED because THIS is what is coming out from a certain camera manufacturer which at this point shall remain nameless...BUT NOW...has my codec in it's products:
...

Last I heard this guy is just running a social engineering project, is that right?

---

NOPE! I coded a fancy fully-custom 4:4:4/4:2:2/4:1:1/4:2:0 16/14/12/10/8/6-bits per channel interframe and intraframe video/stills codec which my boss freaked-out upon when he saw my work and then exercised his legal right to my intellectual property and then turned around and sold it to a very large multimedia company who I FULLY INSISTED VIA IRONCLAD CONTRACT put out the above products with my codec built-in. They agreed and my Bell 429 is now on order...

IT IS VERY VERY VERY REAL...IT IS ---NOT--- A SOCIAL EXPERIMENT !!!!

I just can't talk too much ...BUT... for irony's sake they DID AGREE
to let me PURPOSEFULLY LEAK the specs on the CanonRumors website....

OH! THE SHEER IRONY...if not outright CHEEKINESS
of this leak being put on here first.....!!!

OK Canon -- We KNOW you're reading this! --- Guess Who Is Coming To Dinner?

I must admit her "body" is -S-P-E-C-T-A-C-U-L-A-R- !!!!

Actually most of the specs would fit in line with a RED product, and as far as I know they're the only company with any plans for a phone with a lens mount.

It would be interesting if any of this is real but even if it is, it doesn't sound like anything that would bother Canon besides their Cinema line.

 

[fullstop]

if i recall correctly,Harry "predicted" an APS-C sensored cameraphone with lens mount for interchangeable lenses - FROM CANON. not from another company. plus all sorts of other products, namely a "medium-format" camera, also FROM CANON. not from some other company.

personally i attach as much "predictive value" to these as i do for a "weather forecast for next year" or the "astrological horoscope" on page 17 of the free "newspaper" distributed in subway stations.

it really does appear to be some social experiment. hope it yields a really good master's thesis.

 

[Deleted member 378875]

I'm pretty sure with a decade of disappointments in the DSLR industry, they've forgotten how to disrupt.

Or, with a decade and a half of market dominance in the DSLR industry, they’ve seen no need to disrupt. Not necessarily a good thing for us as consumers, but that’s life.

I can see the board meetings now

"It's all going Bally well boys - no need to do much just keep the machines rolling and follow the competition with premium prices and we'll all be off for our corporate jolly in Bermuda again soon"

 

[neuroanatomist]

I'm pretty sure with a decade of disappointments in the DSLR industry, they've forgotten how to disrupt.

Or, with a decade and a half of market dominance in the DSLR industry, they’ve seen no need to disrupt. Not necessarily a good thing for us as consumers, but that’s life.

I can see the board meetings now

"It's all going Bally well boys - no need to do much just keep the machines rolling and follow the competition with premium prices and we'll all be off for our corporate jolly in Bermuda again soon"

Why not? Bermuda is nice! I'm sure the folks in Canon's board room can read Sony's IR literature just as well as you or I. Has it escaped your notice that Canon holds ~50% of the ILC market and that both Sony's and Canon's latest internal projections show no change in ILC market share in the coming year?

But hey, feel free to maintain your opinion in the face of facts that contradict it. On this forum, (and unfortunately, in the real world as well) you're far from alone in that regard.

 

[ashmadux]

Its entertaining (NOT) to read every response to

"Canon needs to step thier game up.."

with this crap:

"But oooh, your complaining, BUT THEY ARE #1"


Such a juvenile response in terms of thought. : These guys act like canon has a better body than the d850 or a better crop than the d500, much less sony bodies. These recent bodies demolish all of canons offerings...and nikon is damn near broke.

Look I love my 5d3, and i wouldn't mind have a 5d4 and such, but come on...there hasn't been an exciting canon body since the 1dx2. The 5ds is basically the 5 series with more resolution and literally nothing else. 7d2 was a jokes at launch. 6d2, hat a tragic waste of resources just to hobble it anyways.

That said, every rumor is now something about canon bringing something out 6 months to 3 years from now. It's ridiculous. 4 years in between bodies in some cases. this nonsense can't continue. They dont have a clue as to what to do with thier rebels....they may as well just kill the rebel and merge it with the M line. Its not like they come out with efs lenses anyways.

Lastly, (again) we could care less about your market-share responses, because comparatively, our bodies are boring as hell compared to the fast moving competition.



PS - And is anyone paying attention to the further destruction of the photo profession, with RAW abilities seeping its way into billions of consumer tech? Man, the writing is soooo on the wall. If there were bigger sensors in phones, the camera market would burn up sooo fast.

 

[amorse]

Its entertaining (NOT) to read every response to

"Canon needs to step thier game up.."

with this crap:

"But oooh, your complaining, BUT THEY ARE #1"

Honestly, I agree with the sentiment that the majority of comments on this forum seem to pick one side of that dichotomy, but I think the gap between them comes from a difference of how people interpret each statement.

Stating "Canon needs to step up their game" may be intended to read - "Canon needs to step up their game to keep me buying Canon products" but it is often interpreted as "Canon needs to step up their game if they're going to survive".

Obviously anyone receiving that comment as "Canon needs to step up their game if they're going to survive" can have a reasonably objective difference of opinion in that matter since Canon has yet to show signs of death or slowdown - hence the obvious "But oooh, your complaining, BUT THEY ARE #1". On the other hand, stating "Canon needs to step up their game to keep me buying Canon products" is a reasonable statement of one person's buying habits. To each their own - I fully support people voting with their wallet.

Also, anyone who is frustrated with Canon not producing products which they would see as innovative or leading will be super frustrated with the response "But oooh, your complaining, BUT THEY ARE #1" since it doesn't resolve their issue and belittles their frustration/disappointment. It's received as "your opinion doesn't matter" or "the product isn't wrong, what you want is wrong".

This all combines to create what is sometimes a really toxic atmosphere in this forum where any voiced disappointment with a Canon release results in being painted as a troll, and any justification of Canon's activities based on their expected motivations as a for-profit business result in being painted as a Canon fanboy. As with most things, the truth likely lies somewhere in the middle.

 

[Durf]

All the well known camera brands make excellent products. If one has a creative mind and knows how to use whatever gear they own, they can get astonishing images period.

I personally like Canon and that's what I buy. I don't own their best products but what I do have are outstanding in quality and dependability and I love using the gear, that's all that matters to me....

As for trolls, well, some people have nothing better to do than to spend countless hours complaining and most likely are living a miserable existence anyways.

As for fanboys, well, at least their existence is a more happy one

 

[neuroanatomist]

Honestly, I agree with the sentiment that the majority of comments on this forum seem to pick one side of that dichotomy, but I think the gap between them comes from a difference of how people interpret each statement.

Stating "Canon needs to step up their game" may be intended to read - "Canon needs to step up their game to keep me buying Canon products" but it is often interpreted as "Canon needs to step up their game if they're going to survive".

Obviously anyone receiving that comment as "Canon needs to step up their game if they're going to survive" can have a reasonably objective difference of opinion in that matter since Canon has yet to show signs of death or slowdown - hence the obvious "But oooh, your complaining, BUT THEY ARE #1". On the other hand, stating "Canon needs to step up their game to keep me buying Canon products" is a reasonable statement of one person's buying habits. To each their own - I fully support people voting with their wallet.

Also, anyone who is frustrated with Canon not producing products which they would see as innovative or leading will be super frustrated with the response "But oooh, your complaining, BUT THEY ARE #1" since it doesn't resolve their issue and belittles their frustration/disappointment. It's received as "your opinion doesn't matter" or "the product isn't wrong, what you want is wrong".

This all combines to create what is sometimes a really toxic atmosphere in this forum where any voiced disappointment with a Canon release results in being painted as a troll, and any justification of Canon's activities based on their expected motivations as a for-profit business result in being painted as a Canon fanboy. As with most things, the truth likely lies somewhere in the middle.

Agreed.

Statement: “I find Canon products boring, Sony is delivering great stuff.” Response: “Enjoy your new Sony gear.”

Statement: “I find Canon products boring, Canon is doomed.” Response: “Sorry that reality has popped your thought bubble.”

Some people find new, bleeding-edge tech exciting. Probably such people are drawn to a forum like this, which is part of a website focused on rumors about forthcoming gear. But then people mistakenly assume that because they find some like-minded people here, this place represents the broader market. It doesn’t. A majority of people out in the real world just want something familiar and something that works reliably. Canon understands this, as their longstanding and continuing dominance of the market demonstrates.

The reality of market share isn’t a rebuttal to, “I don’t like Canon’s [fill-in-the-blank].” It’s a rebuttal to, “Canon is in real trouble because they can’t compete with [fill-in-the-blank].”

Its entertaining (NOT) to read every response to

"Canon needs to step thier game up.."

with this crap:

"But oooh, your complaining, BUT THEY ARE #1"

Well, the reality is that Canon is #1 in the ILC market. By a large margin. I’m sorry that you find factual statements to be ‘crap’. That says nothing about reality, but says a lot about you.

 

[3kramd5]

I don't know how many times I click the "Report to Moderator" button to report trolls and posts that do nothing but insult users. Nothing ever happens.

Sure it does. I got a warning a couple weeks back for being frank in a discussion about profit margin.

 

[dak723]

I don't know how many times I click the "Report to Moderator" button to report trolls and posts that do nothing but insult users. Nothing ever happens.

Sure it does. I got a warning a couple weeks back for being frank in a discussion about profit margin.

Makes me wonder then why the obvious trolls whose sole intent is to insult and inflame are still here....

 

[transpo1]

Like to see Canon's update to the 5D M4. Nikon scored a major accomplishment with the D850. Canon your turn at bat

You realize the 5D5 is a solid 2-3 years away, right?

- A

Too bad. It shouldn't be. But Canon are by nature extremely cautious and too risk-averse to release a new model so quickly and disrupt their usual release patterns. They'd rather just drop the price of the 5DIV by $600 to increase sales.

 

[ahsanford]

You realize the 5D5 is a solid 2-3 years away, right?

Too bad. It shouldn't be. But Canon are by nature extremely cautious and too risk-averse to release a new model so quickly and disrupt their usual release patterns. They'd rather just drop the price of the 5DIV by $600 to increase sales.

It's not just about units, it's about profits over time. Manufacturers lose their shirt financially in Year 1 getting everything up and running, they break even in Year 2 and they are absolutely printing money in Years 3 and beyond. Canon lives in years 3 and beyond better than anyone*.

(*Obv. each company's break-even timing is different, but you get the basic relationship: the longer a company can keep something on the market and still command a decent price, they will be much more profitable.)

- A

 

[scyrene]

Like to see Canon's update to the 5D M4. Nikon scored a major accomplishment with the D850. Canon your turn at bat

You realize the 5D5 is a solid 2-3 years away, right?

- A

Too bad. It shouldn't be. But Canon are by nature extremely cautious and too risk-averse to release a new model so quickly and disrupt their usual release patterns. They'd rather just drop the price of the 5DIV by $600 to increase sales.

I can see why as an enthusiast that would bum you out, but I can also see why as a company they would do that - if you have a choice between two courses of action, both of which will increase profits, one of which is a lot easier to do, then you'd do that one, right?

 

[transpo1]

...it's common sense. Any prosumer or pro MILC by Canon will alter (and therefore disrupt) the Canon DSLR product line. You're arguing semantics now, but it's a fact.

Yes, just like the EOS M lineup has disrupted Canon's APS-C DSLR lineup. Oh, wait..... :

Your response is an interesting premise but it doesn't reflect the data. DSLRs sales are continuing on a slow decline while mirrorless sales hold steady or increase, especially in Asia, which is a key motivating market for Canon and the other companies in question.

So the disruption is happening, it just may be outside of your bubble.

Don't you hate it when reality bites you?

 

[ahsanford]

I can see why as an enthusiast that would bum you out, but I can also see why as a company they would do that - if you have a choice between two courses of action, both of which will increase profits, one of which is a lot easier to do, then you'd do that one, right?

In fairness, Sony's not completely batsh-- crazy with their frantic FF ILC releases as (it appears) that a fair amount of componentry on a macro scale (knobs, buttons, basic body shape, etc.) has steadily been around from the I to II to III models. So they may be frantically spitting out cameras, sensors, EVFs, etc. perhaps a good chunk of the core tooling, assembly, QE apparatus etc. can live on past a single product line.

- A

 

[neuroanatomist]

...it's common sense. Any prosumer or pro MILC by Canon will alter (and therefore disrupt) the Canon DSLR product line. You're arguing semantics now, but it's a fact.

Yes, just like the EOS M lineup has disrupted Canon's APS-C DSLR lineup. Oh, wait..... :

Your response is an interesting premise but it doesn't reflect the data. DSLRs sales are continuing on a slow decline while mirrorless sales hold steady or increase, especially in Asia, which is a key motivating market for Canon and the other companies in question.

So the disruption is happening, it just may be outside of your bubble.

Don't you hate it when reality bites you?

Yes, I do. But in this case, you’re the one who’s been bitten...and if you look carefully at the bite mark on your butt, you’ll see an exact match to your own teeth.

Read the words I highlighted above...your words. DSLR sales are continuing on the same course...a slow decline (which is typical for a saturated/mature market). Continuing on the same course. Where’s the disruption? There isn’t one.

But, thanks for playing. Better luck next time! 8)

 

[ashmadux]

Honestly, I agree with the sentiment that the majority of comments on this forum seem to pick one side of that dichotomy, but I think the gap between them comes from a difference of how people interpret each statement.

Stating "Canon needs to step up their game" may be intended to read - "Canon needs to step up their game to keep me buying Canon products" but it is often interpreted as "Canon needs to step up their game if they're going to survive".

Obviously anyone receiving that comment as "Canon needs to step up their game if they're going to survive" can have a reasonably objective difference of opinion in that matter since Canon has yet to show signs of death or slowdown - hence the obvious "But oooh, your complaining, BUT THEY ARE #1". On the other hand, stating "Canon needs to step up their game to keep me buying Canon products" is a reasonable statement of one person's buying habits. To each their own - I fully support people voting with their wallet.

Also, anyone who is frustrated with Canon not producing products which they would see as innovative or leading will be super frustrated with the response "But oooh, your complaining, BUT THEY ARE #1" since it doesn't resolve their issue and belittles their frustration/disappointment. It's received as "your opinion doesn't matter" or "the product isn't wrong, what you want is wrong".

This all combines to create what is sometimes a really toxic atmosphere in this forum where any voiced disappointment with a Canon release results in being painted as a troll, and any justification of Canon's activities based on their expected motivations as a for-profit business result in being painted as a Canon fanboy. As with most things, the truth likely lies somewhere in the middle.

Agreed.

Statement: “I find Canon products boring, Sony is delivering great stuff.” Response: “Enjoy your new Sony gear.”

Statement: “I find Canon products boring, Canon is doomed.” Response: “Sorry that reality has popped your thought bubble.”

Some people find new, bleeding-edge tech exciting. Probably such people are drawn to a forum like this, which is part of a website focused on rumors about forthcoming gear. But then people mistakenly assume that because they find some like-minded people here, this place represents the broader market. It doesn’t. A majority of people out in the real world just want something familiar and something that works reliably. Canon understands this, as their longstanding and continuing dominance of the market demonstrates.

The reality of market share isn’t a rebuttal to, “I don’t like Canon’s [fill-in-the-blank].” It’s a rebuttal to, “Canon is in real trouble because they can’t compete with [fill-in-the-blank].”

Its entertaining (NOT) to read every response to

"Canon needs to step thier game up.."

with this crap:

"But oooh, your complaining, BUT THEY ARE #1"

Well, the reality is that Canon is #1 in the ILC market. By a large margin. I’m sorry that you find factual statements to be ‘crap’. That says nothing about reality, but says a lot about you.

Says a lot about me? Riiiiiiight Neero.


"BUT LOOK AT THE SALES!"

- Neero., The Common 'Always Correct' Comment Section Irritant

 

[dak723]

Such a juvenile response in terms of thought. : These guys act like canon has a better body than the d850 or a better crop than the d500, much less sony bodies. These recent bodies demolish all of canons offerings...and nikon is damn near broke.

So I guess people who say moronic things like "These recent bodies demolish all of canons offerings" should be listened to and respected and not considered trolls. Since all cameras are producing about the same results, it is hard to see how "demolish" is anything but a word meant to inflame. And inflame = troll comment.

Look I love my 5d3, and i wouldn't mind have a 5d4 and such, but come on...there hasn't been an exciting canon body since the 1dx2. The 5ds is basically the 5 series with more resolution and literally nothing else. 7d2 was a jokes at launch. 6d2, hat a tragic waste of resources just to hobble it anyways.

Virtually all DSLR releases in the past decade have been small, marginal upgrades. So there have been no exciting camera bodies made by anyone - not just Canon. And, once again, terms like "a joke at launch" and "tragic waste" are nothing but troll comments meant to inflame. Both of these cameras produce excellent images that are virtually indistinguishable from cameras made by other brands. And it is about the photos, isn't it?

That said, every rumor is now something about canon bringing something out 6 months to 3 years from now. It's ridiculous. 4 years in between bodies in some cases. this nonsense can't continue. They dont have a clue as to what to do with thier rebels....they may as well just kill the rebel and merge it with the M line. Its not like they come out with efs lenses anyways.

Lastly, (again) we could care less about your market-share responses, because comparatively, our bodies are boring as hell compared to the fast moving competition.

If you are looking for - and judging a camera company by whether they are boring or not, well, that is your prerogative. The fact that most people don't use that as their criteria doesn't make us apologists, or fanboys. We just have different priorities. When people don't understand such a simple concept, they should be called out - and that's why some folks on this forum do.

 

[stevelee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uai7M4RpoLU

 

[Otara]

Arguing that mirrorless is disrupting DSLR is a bit like arguing over whether horse buggies are disrupting carts while wheezing noisy motorcars go slowly by. They're both getting murdered by phones in the long run mainstream wise.