Lower end EOS R body to omit the touch bar

Talys

Canon 6DII
Feb 16, 2017
1,992
246
Vancouver, BC
#22
I'd gladly do away with the touch bar if it meant the addition of Built in GPS instead. I'd buy one straight away to complement my 6D MKII
While I would prefer a GPS to a touch bar, too, I don't think these are mutually exclusive :D Just two separate buttons (not joined) that are programmable, a dial, or some other old-school control that goes into that valuable space would be appreciated. I do really like the GPS in the 6D2. I actually never really appreciated how much I would like it until I owned the camera for about 6 months and had accumulated a whole bunch of (few thousand) wildlife photos.
 

Talys

Canon 6DII
Feb 16, 2017
1,992
246
Vancouver, BC
#24
I thought the R was entry level. It's cheap already.
I think that the A7III created downward pressure on FF ILCs, and we'll eventually see $1500 USD FF bodies, or at least $2000 FF MILC kits. Remember, Canon has a non L RF kit consumer grade lens coming out this year, would be a good bundle with a new body that's a little lower end.

24-26 megapixel, reduced advanced AF modes, little lower upper end ISO, less weather sealing, 0.5-1 FPS slower, little smaller, maybe different battery, is what I expect.
 

neuroanatomist

Spends Too Much Time on This Forum
Jul 21, 2010
23,519
551
#25
That touch bar nonsense reminds of the same thing on Macbooks. Crap that people don't need, don't want and would really wish they didn't have to pay for. And yet Apple and Canon push unwanted creepy tech on us. We want better sensors - Canon gives us touch bar. OMG. I just can't.
I can’t speak for the EOS R’s touch bar, but I quite like the feature on my Mac – for example, when giving talks I find that many AV systems only support a duplicated display (where the projector mirrors the internal screen, rather than being treated as an extended desktop), and as a result the PowerPoint/Keynote presenter display does not function, meaning no preview of the upcoming slides. The Touch Bar on my Mac shows thumbnails of the slides, allowing me to see what's coming next.

So, what to you is ‘crap that people don’t need, don’t want’ is to me (and evidently others, like jaayres20’s post above yours) a beneficial and useful feature. Try to remember that your own opinions don’t necessarily represent those of the majority.
 

YuengLinger

EOS 6D MK II
Dec 20, 2012
2,187
176
Southeastern USA
#26
I do not understand some stubbornly repeated criticism...
You can't understand that people have and express opinions? And that they come to gear forums to discuss them?

Only express praise? Would that be a "discussion"?

Maybe eight or ten or twenty people express the same negative opinion. To you, that is "repeated." But to each individual, that is complaining once about a feature they don't like.

I expect Canon has gotten the message: The touchbar is not indispensable for some of their customers. :geek:
 
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Likes: JonSnow
#27
What if this lower end R is without a viewfinder? Because that would effectively distinguish it from EOS R. And make it cheaper for Canon. I know that some people rarely use viewfinders and always use LCDs. (Personally I am the opposite.) I don't know how big this niche is, but as there is no lower end FF body under 6D, this is a new territory for Canon. In EOS M the lowest bodies also don't have VF. Maybe it would be a good combination with something like a compact RF 24-70/4. Would you buy FF camera without VF?
 
Sep 10, 2018
119
54
#28
To add a point of contrast, I actually really appreciate that Canon tries weird stuff like that.
problem is when it comes at the cost of a useful feature.. i doubt you enjoy that.

most people i heard from who bought a EOS R would rather have a joystick than the touch bar.
 
Likes: YuengLinger
Sep 10, 2018
119
54
#29
What if this lower end R is without a viewfinder? Because that would effectively distinguish it from EOS R. And make it cheaper for Canon. I know that some people rarely use viewfinders and always use LCDs. (Personally I am the opposite.) I don't know how big this niche is, but as there is no lower end FF body under 6D, this is a new territory for Canon. In EOS M the lowest bodies also don't have VF. Maybe it would be a good combination with something like a compact RF 24-70/4. Would you buy FF camera without VF?
LOL.. nah.
 

Talys

Canon 6DII
Feb 16, 2017
1,992
246
Vancouver, BC
#30
I'm not sure if I'm crazy and the only person on Earth to feel this way, but I am quite happy with 5D4 and R sensors, at least from the perspective of photographs they take. Not that I wouldn't appreciate little improvements of course, but I really focus on other things, now.

The main things I would like out of R+ is a little more fps in ai servo and an extra rear dial.

What would make me instantly preorder one is if an innovation made it so that flash illuminators worked with mirrorless.
 
Likes: snappy604

YuengLinger

EOS 6D MK II
Dec 20, 2012
2,187
176
Southeastern USA
#31
What if this lower end R is without a viewfinder? Because that would effectively distinguish it from EOS R. And make it cheaper for Canon. I know that some people rarely use viewfinders and always use LCDs. (Personally I am the opposite.) I don't know how big this niche is, but as there is no lower end FF body under 6D, this is a new territory for Canon. In EOS M the lowest bodies also don't have VF. Maybe it would be a good combination with something like a compact RF 24-70/4. Would you buy FF camera without VF?
I would not, but I like the way you are thinking outside the box.
 

PerKr

EOS M50
Jul 11, 2018
36
26
Sverige
#32
Well, they do need to basically replicate the EF-mount lineup of bodies so why not? EF will disappear over time in favor of RF and entry-level bodies are necessary to attract new users (who aren't willing or able to pay $3-4k just to get started). Eventually a sub-$500 RF-mount body is needed (it would be nuts expecting people to start out with EF-M and then switch to RF later)

Lower resolution EVF, no touchy-slidey-bar, no touchscreen... There are probably plenty of little things that could be done to lower manufacturing cost. Plus a lower margin could be accepted for something expected to sell in higher volumes and some artificial limitations could be implemented to motivate users to upgrade.
 

neuroanatomist

Spends Too Much Time on This Forum
Jul 21, 2010
23,519
551
#33
What if this lower end R is without a viewfinder? Because that would effectively distinguish it from EOS R. And make it cheaper for Canon. I know that some people rarely use viewfinders and always use LCDs. (Personally I am the opposite.) I don't know how big this niche is, but as there is no lower end FF body under 6D, this is a new territory for Canon. In EOS M the lowest bodies also don't have VF. Maybe it would be a good combination with something like a compact RF 24-70/4. Would you buy FF camera without VF?
Agree that it would distinguish it from the EOS R, but maybe in the same way a new ‘inexpensive’ Tesla would be distinguished from current models by coming without a steering wheel. ;)

While there are M models without a VF, I really don’t see that happening with a FF MILC. But who knows...maybe with a sturdy hotshoe EVF that replicates the hoshoe for a flash (and for which Canon could charge a premium), it might happen.
 

PerKr

EOS M50
Jul 11, 2018
36
26
Sverige
#34
Would you buy FF camera without VF?
If it was very cheap and had an awesome fully articulating screen, then maybe for certain uses (product photography). But it would have to be exceptional and would be relegated to niche use in the studio. Most likely I would just not consider it at all.
 
#35
You can't understand that people have and express opinions? And that they come to gear forums to discuss them?

Only express praise? Would that be a "discussion"?

Maybe eight or ten or twenty people express the same negative opinion. To you, that is "repeated." But to each individual, that is complaining once about a feature they don't like.

I expect Canon has gotten the message: The touchbar is not indispensable for some of their customers. :geek:
I do have nothing against critical arguments against/for some features etc. - but I want arguments not "we expected better xy but got yz" or similar remarks ... and "repeated" was meant not only for this thread.
 
Sep 26, 2017
99
55
Madison, WI
#36
Well, they do need to basically replicate the EF-mount lineup of bodies so why not? EF will disappear over time in favor of RF and entry-level bodies are necessary to attract new users (who aren't willing or able to pay $3-4k just to get started). Eventually a sub-$500 RF-mount body is needed (it would be nuts expecting people to start out with EF-M and then switch to RF later)

Lower resolution EVF, no touchy-slidey-bar, no touchscreen... There are probably plenty of little things that could be done to lower manufacturing cost. Plus a lower margin could be accepted for something expected to sell in higher volumes and some artificial limitations could be implemented to motivate users to upgrade.
I suspect touch screens are here to stay on all levels. Consumers expect them. The cost for a touch screen display and a non touch screen display is roughly the same these days because of cell phones.

I'd even argue that the viewfinder might have the same resolution because it's cheaper in quantity, just like they use the same sensor in multiple market segments. However the refresh rate of that screen might be less, jut like the fps is different between a high end aps-c and a low end one using the same sensor.
 
Sep 26, 2017
99
55
Madison, WI
#37
I think that the A7III created downward pressure on FF ILCs, and we'll eventually see $1500 USD FF bodies, or at least $2000 FF MILC kits. Remember, Canon has a non L RF kit consumer grade lens coming out this year, would be a good bundle with a new body that's a little lower end.

24-26 megapixel, reduced advanced AF modes, little lower upper end ISO, less weather sealing, 0.5-1 FPS slower, little smaller, maybe different battery, is what I expect.
I think FF cameras will hit that mark soon, but there Canon likes to have tiers. I still think the possibility of a larger than APS-C but smaller than Full frame is a possibility, and it lends itself to marketing well with a small/medium/large setup. The medium could use the R lenses and be a stepping stone but could still be a step up from M.
 
#38
Although I really like the touch screen for moving the autofocus point around in certain situations, I would really like to have the joystick as well....especially since I shoot with with gloves on most of the winter. Sony finally did things right having both (even if the touch screen is not as useful for other things on the sony) on the A7III generation. I'm really looking forward to a Canon camera with focus points across the full sensor that can keep up to birds in flight as is as reliable as the video AF on the current DP canons.
 
Likes: pj1974
Apr 3, 2018
158
60
Calgary
#39
Canon has to do so much catch-up work to remain competitive. The wolves are circling and moving quickly. Will the Canon glacier move?
Yes, Canon is a glacier, while Sony is ice floes in the ILC market.

Your wolves circling analogy is too simplistic. I prefer to analyse the situation more realistically. One the on side you have the camera/imaging companies; Canon, Nikon, Minolta. On the other side you have the electronics conglomerates; Sony, Panasonic, Samsung. Canon and Nikon will fight for their lift to remain in the camera market, particularly the ILC/ pro/ enthusiast market. For Sony and Panasonic, cameras are just one of the electronic consumer goods that they sell.Very much like how Sony decided not to pursue dominance in TV or follow through on XQD, so too did Samsung just totally drop ILC camers. Based on this alone, I would say Canon will make a strong showing in MILC in the next few years. Sony might then find it unprofitable to do MILC an drop out of this business.

Moreover, Canon has a support network which is crucial for professional photography. Sony needs to to set up a similar support structure if it intends to compete at the top end. It is still not clear if Sony will commit such resources stop at just selling through retailers.

It is a competitive market where every company needs to catch-up in different areas to remain competitive.
 

neuroanatomist

Spends Too Much Time on This Forum
Jul 21, 2010
23,519
551
#40
Canon has to do so much catch-up work to remain competitive. The wolves are circling and moving quickly. Will the Canon glacier move?
Yes, you can really see how Canon needs to catch up to remain competitive by looking at ILC market share, which Canon has dominated for the past 15+ years, and continues to dominate today.
Yeah...the grizzly bear had better watch out, the salmon are circling and moving quickly. ;)