Lower end EOS R body to omit the touch bar

[3kramd5]

What can they possible do to make an even lower end EOS R

?

Easiest answer: smaller sensor
Additionally: no mechanical shutter, less expensive EVF, etc

Reuse of some components, e.g. the body and mount, would spread the non-recurring costs over a wider pool, allowing more aggressive pricing on subsequent models.

 

[Ozarker]

What can they possible do to make an even lower end EOS R?

They released the pretty much best lenses of their entire lineup and only a mirrorless 6d to use them... and now they release an even worse mirrorless camera?
It is REALY time for a professional EOS R, not another toy... what else are these high end lenses made for? Instagram posts with a 3000$ lense attached to a toy camera?

Cameras that cost hundreds and even thousands are not toys. Besides, the photographer/glass makes the biggest difference. Sorry about your Instagram.

 

[djack41]

With the specs and quality of cameras offered by Sony, Nikon, Fuji etc,. the EOS R better be the low-end camera! Canon has to get into the game.

 

[Ozarker]

With the specs and quality of cameras offered by Sony, Nikon, Fuji etc,. the EOS R better be the low-end camera! Canon has to get into the game.

Canon is in the game. Canon is still #1... by a wide margin.

 

[unfocused]

...calling the "R" a "toy" and insinuating that those that will buy the R and even a lower end future R will be doing nothing more than posting them on instagram is totally insulting to both Canon and those photographers that are using the R to produce professional level photographs...

Also insulting to the thousands of talented professionals who post to Instagram.

 

[unfocused]

I'm generally uninterested in mirrorless, but a serviceable low-cost full frame with decent high ISO performance that is quieter than the 5DIV would be very interesting to me for event coverage.

 

[Ozarker]

IF I ever go "R" it will be whatever the high end iteration is. Otherwise, just give me a 5D Mark IV or V. Perfectly happy in the EF world for now.

 

[Otara]

Depending on how you set it up, it can be activated by resting your finger for a second or so (not just brushing). That means not immediate response (as in a button), but the result is that you can get variable response after it is activated.

I wasnt very clear - thats the 'too slow' bit I was referring to, ie where you use 'rest the finger' option instead. Hopefully they'll add more options and one will work better for me.

 

[vjlex]

Maybe this is their way of righting their screwy trickle-up strategy when it comes to specs. Canon's lower-end bodies generally have newer and sometimes better features than the higher-end bodies because the higher-end bodies are usually the first of the new generation and are released less-frequently. Perhaps by starting with 2 lower-end R bodies, they can fully feature load the higher-end when it finally does premiere.

 

[privatebydesign]

Frankly, I'd settle for more information on which type of high-end R is coming - a speed demon a la 1DXii or a resolution monster a la 5DsR.

The high resolution R will come before a 1Series R. The 5DS/r II development was cancelled and I'm sure it will be replaced with an R. Pros are slower to adopt to 'new' systems, especially sports pros, and with the Olympics being in Japan in 2020 I can't imagine the 1DX MkIII not being there.

 

[Jaysheldon]

Interesting that no one has suggested a lower end R body might have fewer than 5,000 focus points. Seems to me that along side a lower MP sensor that's one of the biggest ways of cutting cost

 

[Ozarker]

Interesting that no one has suggested a lower end R body might have fewer than 5,000 focus points. Seems to me that along side a lower MP sensor that's one of the biggest ways of cutting cost

Well, I wasn't going to say anything... but I could probably live with just 200 or so focus points.

 

[Sean C]

I think you are onto something, but Canon should go a step farther and implement a subscription model such as Adobe has with the Creative Cloud. You'd pay monthly to keep features enabled, which means the camera would have to "check in" with Canon every month too. How easy it would be for Canon to simply shut down the EVF, etc. if payments are late.

And they can ad built in a mandatory facebook tracking app, ads that display every power up and tracking metadata added to every shot.
Meanwhile, each camera will have DVD style region lock so you can only use the camera in zones you've purchased. Act now to get the temporary vacation license pack for your next trip!
The camera is of course licensed per user, so you'll need the family pack license to let anyone else use it.

And for a serious comment, we don't know what Canon's best performing mirrorless at this moment would look like. If Canon doesn't see a camera they could release now beating current flagships I bet they wait until they can release one that does (at a reasonable price). Unless they really manage a breakthrough on focus speed and battery life I expect to see a mirrorless 1DX(ish) camera last and it'll be tougher to pull of and gain the least.

One wish I have: The viewfinder isn't optical anymore! Move it to the side so my nose has room to the side of the camera! (as with a rangefinder) It doesn't need to look like a SLR now that the prism is gone. Hopefully they make that change by the time they release a 5D(ish) body. Then it'll be a comfortable in landscape as it is in portrait. (at least this requires no new tech)

 

[M_S]

I really don't understand the move to release an entry level R camera now, where you can only buy high end lenses for it. If someone was interested in buying into the new system via an entry level camera, he probably would want to use entry level priced lenses to come with it. Since this is not in the portfolio of canon right now in the R line, this really doesn't make sense for me. Who might be the target audience for it? Who will buy an entry level camera with a 50 F1.2 or a 28-70 F2? Looking at the prices right now, 3600 Euros for a body, kit lens and adapter isn't cheap. On the same page, comparing the features of the EOS-R with other cameras in the mirrorless market and with DSLRs: What could entry mean in this case as this more or less entry already? Really puzzled about this.

 

[Ivan Muller]

'What can they possible do to make an even lower end EOS R?

They released the pretty much best lenses of their entire lineup and only a mirrorless 6d to use them... and now they release an even worse mirrorless camera?
It is REALY time for a professional EOS R, not another toy... what else are these high end lenses made for? Instagram posts with a 3000$ lens attached to a toy camera?

I'm one of those that bought this 'toy R' camera for my photography business. I have none of the new RF lenses and cant see myself getting any soon, except perhaps the 35mm IS.... wich looks nice and compact...

I think this is probably the best camera I have ever had...not that this says much in itself in that my first FF Canon was a 5d2 and then the 6D, both of which I had for about 4 years respectively - so some may point out that I don't own the real 'professional' Canon bodies that are made for the Pros's and so I may not really now what I'm talking about, and they may have a point of course...

But as a working commercial photographer doing mostly portraits, architecture, interiors, industrial and some event photography etc etc, both of these cameras served me well with almost all my pics nice and sharp and well exposed. I also don't have any of the fast expensive L lenses much sought after by the 'Pros' ..yet l have never had a client complain about my image quality ito sharpness, DR, highlight recovery or Bokeh etc etc...

My workhorse lenses are the 17-40 L, not my favorite but good enough for work, the 24 TS which is one of my favorites, and a 70-300L which works well for portraits, events and industrial photography. The rest of my lenses are the common and garden variety non 'L' EF lenses like the 40mm F2.8, 50mm F1.8, and 100mm F2.8 macro that I use a lot for portraits as well. The lenses I use most for my personal work is the 40mm f2.8, the Tamron 35mm f1.8 and the 70-300L for my once a year excursion to the KNP.

I have also had the 6D2 briefly but I found the R to be much improved and better suited to the way I Iike to use a camera especially ito AF convenience.

Most of my fellow commercial photographer friends work with 'older' cameras but on the other hand almost all the keen amateurs I know have the latest and the greatest and have a lot of angst about noise, DR and fast lenses etc...

What do I like most about the R? Its got a dual axis spirit level which helps enormously with architecture and interiors and it can connect with my I pad so that my clients can see what I'm doing without touching my camera. The grip is really nice and I like that its got a flippy screen which also works well when my camera is on a tripod, which it is mostly when I do commercial work. It also works seamlessly with my EF lenses, in fact my 'keeper' rate for sharp in focus images is even better than before and I like it that MF is so easy and that I can use a focus point right up into the corners and edge of the sensor. I also like it that dust is hardly a problem and that I can use all my old batteries on the R. The silent shutter is nice to have and also the C-RAW which saves a ton of HD space.
And yes this sensor with its 30mp is much nicer than the one on my 6D2 with good recoverable detail in the highlights and also in the shadows and the images are good enough at higher iso's...





Enclosed an image from a recent visit to Lesotho. Iso 2000 and printed on a 610x450mm paper with 20mm borders...made with the R and the Tamron 35f1.8 set at 1/90 f3.5 and moderate NR via topaz dnoize...I could probably have skipped the NR because at this A2 size it would not have been visible. The print looks fabulous with tons of detail and no noise visible...but how many of us ever print this large?

The point I'm trying to make is that we live in good times with really nice choices over all the brands and what we have now probably far exceed what we need.

 

[Bambel]

Interesting that no one has suggested a lower end R body might have fewer than 5,000 focus points. Seems to me that along side a lower MP sensor that's one of the biggest ways of cutting cost

I don't think so. A DPAF sensor has millions of AF points (in fact, ALL pixels are AF points) and it's just a matter of software as how many AF points they are represented.

Other than that: a low end R could use the M50 EVF, less MP and less fps. I would buy something like that.

b.

 

[Hector1970]

I can see Canon introducing a cheaper R camera to build the customer base. For myself I’d prefer a more pro model but to support the lens they need to sell as many cameras as possible.
If I were them I’d bring out APS-C range from xxxxD to XD and kill off the M series which I think is unlikely to be supported for too much longer as it’s like a branch of evolution sure to die off soon.
Bulk of volume sales are in APS-C area today. New R lens (non-l ) for an APS-C could be a major growth driver (if partially canibalising existing lens)

 

[GMCPhotographics]

I'm with you there Hector1970.
At the moment, the R mount and camera are a curiosity but not a serious contender to my current photography. I have a large range of ef lenses that I'm very happy with and use regularly. At the moment I'm using a pair of 5D3 bodies and may move to a pair of 5D4's by the end of the year. The current Eos R isn't the kind of camera I would want to rely on as my primary camera. It's an immature product (although very good for a first attempt). It lacks the user interface that I am familiar with and frankly...the 5D3/4 spank it silly in terms of ergonomics and user friendliness. The R needs to adopt a more typical interface and not expect current users to learn the "new way". I can see an R pro with a few selected R specific lenses being in my bag at a future date. But I suspect that it'll be backup or a camera for leveraging a few of the R benefits.
The other concern to me is the price point...the camera and lenses are way over priced for what they are when compared to the EF and 5D4 / 6DII models.

 

[Treyarnon]

I really don't understand the move to release an entry level R camera now, where you can only buy high end lenses for it. If someone was interested in buying into the new system via an entry level camera, he probably would want to use entry level priced lenses to come with it. Since this is not in the portfolio of canon right now in the R line, this really doesn't make sense for me. Who might be the target audience for it? Who will buy an entry level camera with a 50 F1.2 or a 28-70 F2? Looking at the prices right now, 3600 Euros for a body, kit lens and adapter isn't cheap. On the same page, comparing the features of the EOS-R with other cameras in the mirrorless market and with DSLRs: What could entry mean in this case as this more or less entry already? Really puzzled about this.

You are aware that you can buy EF lenses to fit the R aren't you? and there are plenty of value lenses there.

 

[Treyarnon]

I'm with you there Hector1970.
The other concern to me is the price point...the camera and lenses are way over priced for what they are when compared to the EF and 5D4 / 6DII models.

'Value' is a personal thing.
You could spin it around and say the R gives you 5D4 image quality at 50% less cost (comparing on RRP at launch)
I notice that the price of the 6D2 has dropped considerably since the R arrived, but the price at launch was not that dissimilar.