M6 mk II review...

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
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Well, I'm hoping for the flippy screen. I think one of the reps I talked to grudgingly conceded I had a point--it's on the "entry level" M50, why not higher models?
On stills orientated cameras I prefer the M5/M6/M6 II style of tilting screen than the M50 tilt flip swivel, stand out from the body to get any angle on it style.
 

SteveC

M50 & T6i
Sep 3, 2019
294
165
They want you to buy the RP instead ;)
Ironically, I *have* thought about doing so...someday.

But now I don't want to, because it actually has fewer pixels, and more than likely slower performance than the almost-entry-level M6 II!! (No, I'm not insisting on 83 MP, which is what the number would be if the pixels subtended the same angle for both cameras, but it just seems odd to me to move to a full frame with fewer total pixels than a crop frame.)
 

SteveC

M50 & T6i
Sep 3, 2019
294
165
On stills orientated cameras I prefer the M5/M6/M6 II style of tilting screen than the M50 tilt flip swivel, stand out from the body to get any angle on it style.
I can certainly see that.

But the main attraction of the flippy screen is I can store it faced into the camera--protected from dings and scratches.
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
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Ironically, I *have* thought about doing so...someday.

But now I don't want to, because it actually has fewer pixels, and more than likely slower performance than the almost-entry-level M6 II!! (No, I'm not insisting on 83 MP, which is what the number would be if the pixels subtended the same angle for both cameras, but it just seems odd to me to move to a full frame with fewer total pixels than a crop frame.)
The M6 MkII is as far away from entry level as you can get! You have the M100, M50, M5, M6, M6 II.

I don't see the crossover between the M and the R, they are completely different tools with very different lens options and priorities and price points. The best primes in M are $200-500, the best primes in RF are $2,500, five to twelve times the amount. The M is optimized for size with a great feature set a stunningly capable comparatively large sensor and a reasonably sized and orientated line of modest lenses. That EF lenses fit on it with an adapter is a bonus, not the raison d'etre. The R line is built for lens quality.

If you need the size and portability it is the M, if you want the best 135 can give you for some types of shooting the R is your tool. Don't be fooled by pixel numbers or video reviews desperate for hits and affiliate links, get the camera that best suits your needs be that a Canon M or R/RF or Sony or whatever else has the feature set you prioritize.
 

Sporgon

5% of gear used 95% of the time
2012 was a good year for Canon in lenses, IMO. Whoever they had designing these lenses that hit the market in 2012 was an artist and knew how an image should look. The collective 'he' wasn't interested in charts and MTF50s, he wanted lenses that drew well with a three dimensional image and pastel soft bokeh, not resolution monsters that the likes of Sigma produced and ironically called them 'Art'. We had the 35/2 IS, 28/2.8 IS, 40/2.8 and the EF-m 22/2. Lenses that are capable of producing beautiful images for practical photographers, not measurabators. I have the 22/2 on M5, M3 before that and it will continue to be as good on the M6ii as it was on those cameras. Things are changing though, maybe they have to with the dense pixel sensors that we are offered now and the likes of DPR calling out lenses that don't resolve as strongly as others. The EF 35/1.4 II appears to be an uber corrected chart monster, maybe the RF lenses are too. I haven't used any yet so don't know, but I'm unlikely to anyway I guess.
 
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privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
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2012 was a good year for Canon in lenses, IMO. Whoever they had designing these lenses that hit the market in 2012 was an artist and knew how an image should look. The collective 'he' wasn't interested in charts and MTF50s, he wanted lenses that drew well with a three dimensional image and pastel soft bokeh, not resolution monsters that the likes of Sigma produced and ironically called them 'Art'. We had the 35/2 IS, 28/2.8 IS, 40/2.8 and the EF-m 22/2. Lenses that are capable of producing beautiful images for practical photographers, not measurabators. I have the 22/2 on M5, M3 before that and it will continue to be as good on the M6ii as it was on those cameras. Things are changing though, maybe they have to with the dense pixel sensors that we are offered now and the likes of DPR calling out lenses that don't resolve as strongly as others. The EF 35/1.4 II appears to be an uber corrected chart monster, maybe the RF lenses are too. I haven't used any yet so don't know, but I'm unlikely to anyway I guess.
Well said Sporgon.

I love the M22 and the EF 35 f2 IS. Indeed if I could have only one lens (depending on camera) it would be one of those two. I currently favor the 35 f2 but that is because I use FF a lot more than crop.
 
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SteveC

M50 & T6i
Sep 3, 2019
294
165
I don't see the crossover between the M and the R, they are completely different tools with very different lens options and priorities and price points. The best primes in M are $200-500, the best primes in RF are $2,500, five to twelve times the amount. The M is optimized for size with a great feature set a stunningly capable comparatively large sensor and a reasonably sized and orientated line of modest lenses. That EF lenses fit on it with an adapter is a bonus, not the raison d'etre. The R line is built for lens quality.
I wasn't saying there was a crossover. If-and-when I go into R-land, it will be to fill a different niche. To be honest, I've yet to identify anything I *personally* would need an R or RP or R<fill in the letter> to do. Right now at my current ability, I can't justify an R (or RP) to myself. But I seem to be coming into this at just the right time--by the time I *am* able to justify full frame, I should be able to step directly into mirrorless. (And waiting means I will have more R-type body choices.)

Anyhow, the current models seem to have a wider Field Of View...and less total detail than the M6-II (which I will buy, if an M5 II doesn't come out first). I can get a better tradeoff than that just using a shorter lens (and cheaper too) on an M6 II. (Obviously, that's not all there is to it--the FF lens will of course be a better quality optic than an EF-M lens. But I can have that largely covered too, with the adapter and EF lenses. (It won't be one of the super RF lenses, but it will be a vastly better lens than an EF-M lens.)) Yeah, that's my gut telling me to wait and see, rather than just jump on an RP now, but that's what I think I should be doing anyway. Meanwhile, I did enjoy the R I "played" with a couple of weekends ago (they had no RPs), though my primary mission was to try out Fv mode (which I was delighted to see is on the M6 II).
 

BillB

EOS 6D MK II
May 11, 2017
1,137
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I wasn't saying there was a crossover. If-and-when I go into R-land, it will be to fill a different niche. To be honest, I've yet to identify anything I *personally* would need an R or RP or R<fill in the letter> to do. Right now at my current ability, I can't justify an R (or RP) to myself. But I seem to be coming into this at just the right time--by the time I *am* able to justify full frame, I should be able to step directly into mirrorless. (And waiting means I will have more R-type body choices.)

Anyhow, the current models seem to have a wider Field Of View...and less total detail than the M6-II (which I will buy, if an M5 II doesn't come out first). I can get a better tradeoff than that just using a shorter lens (and cheaper too) on an M6 II. (Obviously, that's not all there is to it--the FF lens will of course be a better quality optic than an EF-M lens. But I can have that largely covered too, with the adapter and EF lenses. (It won't be one of the super RF lenses, but it will be a vastly better lens than an EF-M lens.)) Yeah, that's my gut telling me to wait and see, rather than just jump on an RP now, but that's what I think I should be doing anyway. Meanwhile, I did enjoy the R I "played" with a couple of weekends ago (they had no RPs), though my primary mission was to try out Fv mode (which I was delighted to see is on the M6 II).
Makes sense to me. The differences between aps-c and ff are pretty minor unless you are making really big prints.
 

Sporgon

5% of gear used 95% of the time
Well said Sporgon.

I love the M22 and the EF 35 f2 IS. Indeed if I could have only one lens (depending on camera) it would be one of those two. I currently favor the 35 f2 but that is because I use FF a lot more than crop.
Yes I've got the 35/2 IS too, in fact I bought one after you'd been on here shouting its praises a few years ago. Even though you know I hate putting my hand in my pocket to buy gear I can't bear you any ill will has it's a peach of a lens ;) . It sings on the 5DS.:)
 
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Sporgon

5% of gear used 95% of the time
Makes sense to me. The differences between aps-c and ff are pretty minor unless you are making really big prints.
Depends on your definition of 'really big' but in a nutshell I'd say the wider you go the more the larger sensor pulls ahead in what I call 'breio', that is the freshness, clarity of the finer details in the image. Splitting hairs of course. :)
 

BillB

EOS 6D MK II
May 11, 2017
1,137
380
Depends on your definition of 'really big' but in a nutshell I'd say the wider you go the more the larger sensor pulls ahead in what I call 'breio', that is the freshness, clarity of the finer details in the image. Splitting hairs of course. :)
Another piece of the puzzle is the lens. For a given print size, any limitation in the lens are going to be magnified more printing an aps-c image compared to a full frame.
 
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privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
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A good friend and I often shoot events for charity, they are almost always lighting challenged and we are often not allowed to use flash. She just bought (this week) a new 5D MkIV as she was fed up of the noise she was getting at regular sized output when compared to my ff camera.

The more you do something specific and compare it to others using a different solution the easier it is to see the differences. Now do regular people see differences between my shots and hers? Who knows, but she is no longer happy with her crop camera output for her uses.

Makes sense to me. The differences between aps-c and ff are pretty minor unless you are making really big prints.
 

tomsop

EOS T7i
Mar 23, 2012
66
1
I was so frustrated by the video because they kept criticizing it but the point of criticism should be to direct us to better gear for the same general price range if it exists or tell us we need to spend $3K to satisfy their high standards. It gets ridiculous when criticism is not put into context as to what alternatives they suggest we pursue. Everything is compromised to satisfy a price point or we would all have computers with too much HD space and CPU power, etc. I am going to just ignore what they say and wait a couple weeks until people stat posting samples with the lenses I use.
 
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SteveC

M50 & T6i
Sep 3, 2019
294
165
I was so frustrated by the video because they kept criticizing it but the point of criticism should be to direct us to better gear for the same general price range if it exists or tell us we need to spend $3K to satisfy their high standards. It gets ridiculous when criticism is not put into context as to what alternatives they suggest we pursue. Everything is compromised to satisfy a price point or we would all have computers with too much HD space and CPU power, etc. I am going to just ignore what they say and wait a couple weeks until people stat posting samples with the lenses I use.
One thing that handicapped me was I simply don't know the other brands' lineups at all. So if they compare the M6II to the Olyfukinony XYZ, I have no idea if it's a fair comparison--the XYZ may have a similar cost, or it may be an $8000 camera.

If I recall they DID say it was a good camera for what it's priced at.
 
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Act444

EOS 6D MK II
May 4, 2011
993
102
A good friend and I often shoot events for charity, they are almost always lighting challenged and we are often not allowed to use flash. She just bought (this week) a new 5D MkIV as she was fed up of the noise she was getting at regular sized output when compared to my ff camera.

The more you do something specific and compare it to others using a different solution the easier it is to see the differences. Now do regular people see differences between my shots and hers? Who knows, but she is no longer happy with her crop camera output for her uses.
I went through this same process as well; when I started I was adamant about sticking with crop (you may even see it in my old posts)...until suddenly I found myself frustrated with the noisy, soft images I kept getting indoors, even after spending top dollar on high-end lenses, and wanted better. Turns out the move I was resisting all along turned out to be the only move I had left to make.
 

privatebydesign

Would you take advice from a cartoons stuffed toy?
Jan 29, 2011
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Exactly, we are our worst enemy when it comes to critiquing our own output, we notice things about the technical details normal viewers don't but we are still driven to make it better. Not saying crop camera output doesn't have its place, indeed I am very happy with my M5 on many occasions and in focal length limited situations crop cameras hold several good advantages over bigger sensors. But to be sure, FF sensor advantages are not just 'for big prints'.

I went through this same process as well; when I started I was adamant about sticking with crop (you may even see it in my old posts)...until suddenly I found myself frustrated with the noisy, soft images I kept getting indoors, even after spending top dollar on high-end lenses, and wanted better. Turns out the move I was resisting all along turned out to be the only move I had left to make.
 
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Jul 12, 2017
120
85
Has anyone actually played around with the raw files? I've mucked around with DPR and Fro Knows Photos raws and I have to say I am very impressed! For one I think ISO up to 12800 looks pretty good and easily usable for the likes of uploading to Instagram and secondly I don't know what the actual dynamic range is going to be but playing around with some ISO 100 files and being stupid in Lightroom and moving exposure slider to +5 I see absolutely no banding or blotchy-ness in the shadow areas just nice uniform luminous noise! In this regard I think it might be even better than my 5D4? The M6II is going to be a day 1 purchase for me.

Still wish Canon had added IBIS and slightly deeper buffer though, would've made it pretty much the perfect super compact mirrorless APS-C camera (for us still shooters haha).
 
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Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
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Exactly, we are our worst enemy when it comes to critiquing our own output, we notice things about the technical details normal viewers don't but we are still driven to make it better. Not saying crop camera output doesn't have its place, indeed I am very happy with my M5 on many occasions and in focal length limited situations crop cameras hold several good advantages over bigger sensors. But to be sure, FF sensor advantages are not just 'for big prints'.
For me, it’s simple.

R and EF series and lenses are large and expensive , M series and lenses are small and lower cost.

FF has lower sampling density, crop has higher.

I like them both, and let the situation decide which to use.
 

SteveC

M50 & T6i
Sep 3, 2019
294
165
Has anyone actually played around with the raw files? I've mucked around with DPR and Fro Knows Photos raws and I have to say I am very impressed! For one I think ISO up to 12800 looks pretty good and easily usable for the likes of uploading to Instagram and secondly I don't know what the actual dynamic range is going to be but playing around with some ISO 100 files and being stupid in Lightroom and moving exposure slider to +5 I see absolutely no banding or blotchy-ness in the shadow areas just nice uniform luminous noise! In this regard I think it might be even better than my 5D4? The M6II is going to be a day 1 purchase for me.

Still wish Canon had added IBIS and slightly deeper buffer though, would've made it pretty much the perfect super compact mirrorless APS-C camera (for us still shooters haha).
Ideally, an M5 II would come out with, at the very least a deeper buffer out of your list (maybe IBIS is a problem they haven't solved yet), and a flippy screen and of course a viewfinder (either popup or fixed), plus some other goodies to make sure it's "higher" than the M6 II.

[Of course maybe IBIS is a problem they haven't quite solved yet AND they want to put it in the M5 II and that is why they haven't announced it yet?]

If I knew that it was never going to happen, I'd jump on the M6 II. So what's going to happen is, I'll wait. Probably until Black Friday. If there's still absolutely not hint of an M5 II by then, it's 90% I'll go for the M6 II, and be pretty happy with it.
 
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Act444

EOS 6D MK II
May 4, 2011
993
102
Exactly, we are our worst enemy when it comes to critiquing our own output, we notice things about the technical details normal viewers don't but we are still driven to make it better. Not saying crop camera output doesn't have its place, indeed I am very happy with my M5 on many occasions and in focal length limited situations crop cameras hold several good advantages over bigger sensors. But to be sure, FF sensor advantages are not just 'for big prints'.
It was the reach. Or at least the perception of it. I had gotten so used to the telephoto coverage on my crop-sensor camera that I was hesitant to give it up. Even after jumping into the FF world back in 2013 (and seeing the IQ benefits!), it still took another 3-4 years for me to abandon crop DSLRs completely. I continued to use the 7D (and later, 7D2) for action and animal photography until an epiphany I had when I reviewed a squirrel pic I took with the 5D while on another task and realizing it blew away anything that ever came out of the 7D

Now is there still a place for crop? Definitely, that's why I have my M6. Smaller, lighter, etc. I just no longer feel crop-sensor IQ is worth the bulk/weight of a DSLR setup, even for the speed of the 7D series. I've learned to live within the limitations of the 5D4 for that (I've considered the 1D but it's just too much bulk/noise and my action shooting is too infrequent to justify the price tag). When portability is a priority or when attending events with camera restrictions, that's the niche the M6 fills.