Mercedes vs. Lexus.... huh? A 2 week spin w/ a Mk IV

[Busted Knuckles]

Mercedes &BMW are still a profitable automobile manufacturers, but you have to admit the brand managers blew it some 20 years ago by not crushing the upstart Japanese entrants into to the luxo market. And now there is even the Korean entrants.... so much for being content with modest growth, etc.

Canon will continue to be a profitable imaging device company, There is still a bit of cache left to the Merc, but the real function buyers are moving away from Merc/BMW at a pretty good clip and both those institutional brands are scrambling to get to the front of the parade. And scrambling in a ham handed way.

I just took the 5DmkIV for a 2 week spin. Yes it produced great still images..... as did the Sony... But when I went to video mode.... well I don't want to be known a basher so I will leave it there.

Canon for all the world feels like the lumbering Mercedes of the early 90s trying to get it's head wrapped around the demands of the younger generation. You have to admit Sony has made great strides in overall market share, etc. And perhaps shortly Canon will glide path into a feature competitive offering while Sony fires off technology fuselage after fuselage until they land on the right config.

I can remember the debates of the establishment PDA (palm pilot) expressing that people really didn't want a swiss army knife does it all single device....... If you can remember palm pilot or even fortunately the Apple Note.....

The self righteous stills shooters not wanting to have to pay for all that video overhead in software, hardware and price remind me a lot of my ex wife who insisted on having 2 devices PDA and phone, and now updates to the new apple as soon as it is released.

Yep pretty disappointed in the Mk IV and won't be upgrading anytime soon. If I do it will be a brand change.

 

[BeenThere]

So far, Canon still has the glass to beat.

 

[Rockskipper]

It would be helpful if you went into specifics, as I'm looking to buy a Mark IV. Interesting that the salesman at Canon told me going to a Mark IV was like going from a Toyota to a Mercedes. That kind of had the opposite effect on me, as my current Toyota has over 200k miles and is still going strong and the only Mercedes owner I know is sorry he bought the thing, as parts cost a fortune.

 

[dak723]

I don't care if Canon is #1 in sales or #10. I don't care if Canon aims to lure the younger generation or not. I care about QUALITY. Quality in the equipment and in the results. That is why I own a Canon camera, and have owned various Canon cameras and lenses over the past 20 years. I also own an Olympus camera for the same reason.

So, I don't care if others are switching to Sony. I don't see why anyone cares. People should buy what they want and what suits their needs. I don't consider Sony because I already tried their A7 and A& II. The combination of camera and kit lens was the worst I have ever tried. So, for me, it is not a question of Mercedes vs. Lexus, but Mercedes vs. Ford Pinto.

 

[LDS]

but the real function buyers are moving away from Merc/BMW at a pretty good clip and both those institutional brands are scrambling to get to the front of the parade.

You maybe forgot Audi too... but do you have data to back your assertions? An hint: the US car market, for example, is very different from the European one. Also be careful about drawing parallels across different markets...

 

[ykn123]

Well, i dont know on which planet you are but Mercedes (Daimler to be correct) and BMW are very healthy companies and if you ever owned one of their cars, you would understand that your sample really isn't a good one.
But reagrdless of whether we talk about cars or cameras, competition is always a good thing for the customer. Go use whatever fits your business needs the most - i'm sure both Toyota and Daimler have nice cars to sell as Canon and Sony have nice cameras.
I still think that if you cant get a decent image with a Canon camera, then a Sony would not help you. And i still think that usability, ergonomics and availability of good glass as well as the resell value is good on Canon compared to Sony (and the same is true somehow for Daimler and BMW as well compared to Toyota)
Here in good old Europe you see a lot of BMW's

 

[unfocused]

...the real function buyers are moving away from Merc/BMW at a pretty good clip...

Honestly, you couldn't spend 30 seconds on Google before writing your silly post?

Daimler's Profit Doubles on Strong Mercedes-Benz SUV Sales

BMW Profit Jumps 27% on Strong Sales...

Yeah people are really moving away. Just like people are moving away from Canon – not.

 

[ethanz]

There have been and will continue to be posts about how Canon is doomed. We can make all the analogies and theories we want to, but we don't know what will happen in the future. What we know now is that Canon has the best gear and service in the industry. As someone else said, competition is great for the consumer. So Sony can keep bringing out new features and Canon will do what it wants.

 

[Jopa]

To me Lexus was always an overpriced Toyota, unlike BMW or Mercedes... personal preferences though.

 

[edoorn]

Well I shoot Canon and drive a BMW

You know why I like the BMW?

I know other cars have more bells and whistles, but in the end what makes it so good is the fact that it's a pure driving machine and the experience and pleasure doing so is great fun (even the 1 series have rear wheel driving).

Same with Canon; the ergonomics are great and intuïtive and just meant to use for photographers. You can control everything without even looking at the camera or thinking.

 

[Ozarker]

The self righteous stills shooters not wanting to have to pay for all that video overhead in software, hardware and price remind me a lot of my ex wife who insisted on having 2 devices PDA and phone, and now updates to the new apple as soon as it is released.

Yep pretty disappointed in the Mk IV and won't be upgrading anytime soon. If I do it will be a brand change.

Sounds like your ham handedness with the joystick control led your ex-wife to upgrade and make a brand change, to something less self righteous.

 

[YuengLinger]

I think the messy analogies are pointless.

I think keeping track of what devices an ex-spouse are using is, umm, odd.

Serious videographers have the 1DX II and dedicated video cameras. Serious photographers have the 1DX II and, for half the price (but still one of the best AF systems on the planet), the 5D IV!

 

[monkey44]

I've always bought Canon, and upgrade when the camera or lens no longer does what I want it to do. I've never had any reason to switch brands. Only when Canon fails to produce my work product will I change brands. Why fix what ain't broke. Anytime you change brands, you also change other tech components (Lenses for one) and it can get expensive. I shoot college sports and wildlife/nature primarily -

Chain - FILM/SLIDES >> 10D >> 30D >> 5DM3
Lenses 20/35 + 28/135 + 70/300 >>> 100-400L v1
Upgrade w/5DM3 >> 16-35L IS + 24-105L IS + 70-200L IS + 100-400L IS v2

Never had a reason to switch brands in thirty years -- Canon performs every task I ask of it ...

 

[canon1dxman]

Yesterday, I spent an hour or so with Andy Rouse, a Canon Ambassador. 80% (at a guess) of his images in the presentation were from the 5D IV. I talked to him later and he said it's a simply magnificent camera. Sure, the 1DX II is his powerhouse when needed but he loves the camera and the images were amazing.

I also got to play with the new Sony A9. Lovely camera but felt like a toy compared to the Canons.

As for cars, in Europe, Lexus and Infinity are insignificant. Considered to be overpriced Toyotas and Datsuns.
Mercedes, Audio and BMW rule. I won't be changing my Merc anytime soon, unless it's for another one. Totally bulletproof as far as reliability is concerned.

 

[RunAndGun]

If you're buying a still cam and complain about the "video mode", I think I know what the problem is...

I shoot "video" for a living and have for 20 years. We can espouse about the video coming out of dslr's all day and about how much of a revolution the 5DII was in changing things, BUT at the end of the day, DSLR's are not dedicated video cameras, no matter how much people want to believe they are or even how the manufacturers may emphasize video and video-centric features on them. That being said, I own a total of four different 5D models from the II through IV and all were bought for still use, but like so many in the industry, I have used 5D's for video. But always as a lock-off second(or third or fourth) angle playing B or C or D camera to a C300 or F55 or VariCam.

There is no shortage of people saying Canon is dead, Canon is behind the times, 'insert negative comment about' Canon... But Canon cameras and lenses produce great looking images. As a matter of fact, ALL the brands/manufacturers gear can produce great looking images. The weak link in the chain, most of the time, is the actual photographer. If Canon cameras don't have a feature you want or you like X on Y brand better, that's fine. Purchase that brand. There's probably never been a better time to be a photographer(not from a business stand-point) than now. There are so many choices from so many good manufacturers, it's crazy.

In the still world, I think Canon has the best overall 'package'. Great image, well built ergonomic bodies, the best selection of glass period and bullet-proof reliability. No doubt Sony is making in-roads and producing great equipment with great tech and features, but as a whole they are not there, yet.

I've owned Sony video cameras from my first BetaCam 20 years ago through the F55 today and they blow Canon's doors off with regards to building a functioning video camera body- I hate my C300 with regards to actually using it. The image is great, but it's a PITA to shoot with. Kind of like the flip of the still side, the Sony still cameras look like they were designed 30-40 years ago and seem like they would just be a PITA to hold in your hand and shoot with all day.

 

[Mikehit]

I understand that video bloggers are moving to the Panasonic GH5 in droves. So from this perspective the Sony A9 is neither as good a stills camera as the Canon range, nor the primary choice of video bloggers.
So where does that fit the 'Lexus v Mercedes' analogy??

 

[rfdesigner]

Mercedes &BMW are still a profitable automobile manufacturers, but you have to admit the brand managers blew it some 20 years ago by not crushing the upstart Japanese entrants into to the luxo market. And now there is even the Korean entrants.... so much for being content with modest growth, etc.

I drive a merc: MB dropping the ball? they dropped it in trying to crush Lexus by slashing costs, Only since they jettisoned Chrysler has quality returned, I don't believe that's a coincidence.

 

[Busted Knuckles]

I am encouraged by the responses, so many hard felt beliefs. And so many misinterpretations.... Where would Merc/BMW be if they had crushed the start ups? Better off than they are now? I suspect so. And the consumer probably worse off.

Yes, I didn't mention Audi oversight, but they might be considered to have had their Sony like challenges through the years - so that would have been interesting juxtaposition...Not withstanding that they are considered (or so I am told) are held in higher esteem than Merc in Germany. Not that I ever expect Canon to out of business.

So I had a SCCA license before I took a year off to do Ford 2k, if you know what that means good...... The BMW is intentionally castered to reasonably negative so that it drives "heavy" vs. neutral because 99.999999% of civilians can't handle a neutral caster. You want a true driving experience, see if your BMW mechanic can step your steering toward neutral or even positive - and then you MUST drive the car vs. the other way round. For the price of a 5dIV you too can go get a SCCA license and have a blast doing it.

The 5dIV is a fine camera, particularly if you don't have a 5dIII. I think a 5DsR would be my choice if I was going for high(er) resolution (I have shot II, III, IV and R) - as like one of the other posters noted - using a stills camera for video still isn't there... in the Canon line. And if you are going to shoot vids for money i.e. professionally..... I watched a professional do it w/ a 5dMkII & 24-105 an 8 year old body and a 12 year old lens..... internationally - and he didn't know what frame compression mode he use using (IPB or ALL I, etc) all he could do is tell me it was H.264.... bit rate anyone, color profile? I offered to shoot b roll for him and wanted to mirror his set up. oh well...... I will let you ponder/opine if this was an appropriate professional thing to do.

As far as feeling like a toy, Sony - perhaps, the IV seemed quite a bit lighter than the III - It felt very nice, etc. I did notice that when I was working in the camera store every 35mm felt like a toy compared to a 'Blad and even that was a bit light compared to the RolleiFlex, and that was childsplay next to the Lihhoff.... all a matter of perspective.

So, in conclusion, (1) Canon won't go bankrupt, in my humble opinion, they would be better off if they pinched off the functional hole in their product line. (2) the convergence of vid and stills in inevitable. Those who have shot with me recently, heard me express that I expected Sony to come out w/ a global shutter in their next A body - oopsss missed it - 1/32,000 is pretty close - though I haven't seen the reduction in rolling shutter in person I am looking forward to it.

 

[Buster]

...while Sony fires off technology fuselage after fuselage ...

Fuselage you say!? I think the word you are grasping for is "fusillade" not "fuselage" although the correction will hardly improve your sophomoric screed.

 

[Orangutan]

...while Sony fires off technology fuselage after fuselage ...

Fuselage you say!? I think the word you are grasping for is "fusillade" not "fuselage" although the correction will hardly improve your sophomoric screed.

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