Metz 45 CT-5 and Canon 5D Mark 2

[mk]

Hello everyone!

I recently "inherited" a Metz 45 CT-5 flash from my Dad. He said it's from the 80's...

Looks fine cosmetically, but the battery pack is definitely fried and needs replacement. Does anyone have experience with these units?

I am interested in trying it out with my 5D, but not sure if it will work voltage wise--I definitely don't want to fry something here ;D

Also, the flash was purchased in Germany. Would that pose a problem if I were to buy a battery pack in the US?

Thanks for any pointers!

 

[mk]

Anyone?

 

[candyman]

I found some info here: http://forums.steves-digicams.com/canon-eos-dslr/134692-metz-45-ct-1-flash-gun.html#b

As for the batteries it should be universal. Meaning using the same batteries.

 

[ErosP]

I have a few Metz units that I use for my lighting. Voltage wise, DO NOT hook them up directly to your DSLR beacuse YOU WILL FRY YOUR CAMERA!!! Use a Cactus wireless remote or similar wireless unit to trigger your flash.

Battery packs - you can find them on eBay but you're better off using regular Duracell AA batteries (those holders are also available on eBay used).

Metz flashes are versatile units for lighting, you'll just have to use them in manual mode, no TTL capabilities.

Hope this helps,
Eros
twitter: @erospeterson

 

[briansquibb]

Buy a new one designed for the Canon fit

 

[mk]

I found some info here: http://forums.steves-digicams.com/canon-eos-dslr/134692-metz-45-ct-1-flash-gun.html#b

As for the batteries it should be universal. Meaning using the same batteries.

Excellent! See, this one says that there are no problems, voltage wise--other places say DON'T DO IT....

I have a few Metz units that I use for my lighting. Voltage wise, DO NOT hook them up directly to your DSLR beacuse YOU WILL FRY YOUR CAMERA!!! Use a Cactus wireless remote or similar wireless unit to trigger your flash.

Battery packs - you can find them on eBay but you're better off using regular Duracell AA batteries (those holders are also available on eBay used).

Metz flashes are versatile units for lighting, you'll just have to use them in manual mode, no TTL capabilities.

Hope this helps,
Eros
twitter: @erospeterson

Saw those battery packs on ebay. So they work? It says that the circuit board, etc., doesn't come with the battery packs. You bought some from there?

Buy a new one designed for the Canon fit

lol. That doesn't answer any of my questions, but thanks for the "advice".

 

[7enderbender]

Hello everyone!

I recently "inherited" a Metz 45 CT-5 flash from my Dad. He said it's from the 80's...

Looks fine cosmetically, but the battery pack is definitely fried and needs replacement. Does anyone have experience with these units?

I am interested in trying it out with my 5D, but not sure if it will work voltage wise--I definitely don't want to fry something here ;D

Also, the flash was purchased in Germany. Would that pose a problem if I were to buy a battery pack in the US?

Thanks for any pointers!

Hi there,

Those are great units. I have a 45 CT-4 from that time. First owner actually. It works great with the 5DII. I confirmed with Metz Germany that these units are safe for modern DSLRs.

After a lot of research I think I would label it an urban myth that flash units "fry" modern cameras. Yes, there may be some exotic units out there or stuff may just malfunction after all those years. And I don't encourage you to try anything out without doing a bit more research. But after reading lots and lots of forums and web sites on this subject I have not found a single case where somebody actually did harm to the camera with one of these.

Batteries: same standards everywhere. There are two types of 45 units as far as I know; those with AA battery cages and the ones that take some rechargeable insert. I'm not familiar with the latter. And I'm not sure those are interchangeable.

Metz has some old manuals and parts lists on their German web site. That should help. Check out places like KEH.com They have a lot of Metz original parts. With the battery cages I found that it's worth spending a bit more on original replacement parts. The cheap ebay stuff doesn't fit 100%. Regular AA rechargables like Eneloops will work fine (6 of them). Again, this may be different on the NiMH rechargeable flash models.

Contact Metz support. They are very responsive and will give you a clear answer regarding any voltage concerns. To be sure you can always purchase one of those little Wein safe-sync adapters.

Attaching it is easiest via the PC port. There is a designated cable for that. Alternatively, the cable that goes on the hot shoe also works with the generic version of the SCA adapter. Make sure you're not using one that was designed for any specific camera model with TTL. TTL will NOT work under any circumstances. It's all manual all the way or you can use the flash in the auto mode and set the aperture and range and the flash will do a pretty good job at measuring internally with the little sensor in front.

Wireless is of course the safest and most versatile option. Any cheap ebay triggers will do. If that all works then it's absolutely worth hunting for the optional "mecamat" unit and cable to go with it. It gives you lots of options to dial the unit down manually. I found one at KEH for cheap but I think I lucked out since those can be somewhat rare and are very model specific units.

One thing to consider is that cost may add up with spare parts and such. I think it's worth it. The flash units are very very good and more powerful than any modern designated Canon flash. The guide numbers are a little misleading with that. And for covering an event I actually still find the old fashioned "potato masher" style very useful, especially in larger rooms. And comfortable at that.

Feel free to shoot me a note if you need help.

 

[mk]

Hello everyone!

I recently "inherited" a Metz 45 CT-5 flash from my Dad. He said it's from the 80's...

Looks fine cosmetically, but the battery pack is definitely fried and needs replacement. Does anyone have experience with these units?

I am interested in trying it out with my 5D, but not sure if it will work voltage wise--I definitely don't want to fry something here ;D

Also, the flash was purchased in Germany. Would that pose a problem if I were to buy a battery pack in the US?

Thanks for any pointers!

Hi there,

Those are great units. I have a 45 CT-4 from that time. First owner actually. It works great with the 5DII. I confirmed with Metz Germany that these units are safe for modern DSLRs.

After a lot of research I think I would label it an urban myth that flash units "fry" modern cameras. Yes, there may be some exotic units out there or stuff may just malfunction after all those years. And I don't encourage you to try anything out without doing a bit more research. But after reading lots and lots of forums and web sites on this subject I have not found a single case where somebody actually did harm to the camera with one of these.

Batteries: same standards everywhere. There are two types of 45 units as far as I know; those with AA battery cages and the ones that take some rechargeable insert. I'm not familiar with the latter. And I'm not sure those are interchangeable.

Metz has some old manuals and parts lists on their German web site. That should help. Check out places like KEH.com They have a lot of Metz original parts. With the battery cages I found that it's worth spending a bit more on original replacement parts. The cheap ebay stuff doesn't fit 100%. Regular AA rechargables like Eneloops will work fine (6 of them). Again, this may be different on the NiMH rechargeable flash models.

Contact Metz support. They are very responsive and will give you a clear answer regarding any voltage concerns. To be sure you can always purchase one of those little Wein safe-sync adapters.

Attaching it is easiest via the PC port. There is a designated cable for that. Alternatively, the cable that goes on the hot shoe also works with the generic version of the SCA adapter. Make sure you're not using one that was designed for any specific camera model with TTL. TTL will NOT work under any circumstances. It's all manual all the way or you can use the flash in the auto mode and set the aperture and range and the flash will do a pretty good job at measuring internally with the little sensor in front.

Wireless is of course the safest and most versatile option. Any cheap ebay triggers will do. If that all works then it's absolutely worth hunting for the optional "mecamat" unit and cable to go with it. It gives you lots of options to dial the unit down manually. I found one at KEH for cheap but I think I lucked out since those can be somewhat rare and are very model specific units.

One thing to consider is that cost may add up with spare parts and such. I think it's worth it. The flash units are very very good and more powerful than any modern designated Canon flash. The guide numbers are a little misleading with that. And for covering an event I actually still find the old fashioned "potato masher" style very useful, especially in larger rooms. And comfortable at that.

Feel free to shoot me a note if you need help.

Wow thank you so much for that thorough reply!

I checked out the sites you suggested.

Unfortunately Metz or it's affiliates have not gotten back to me in regards to my repair request and general inquiry in regards to compatibility.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

After a lot of research I think I would label it an urban myth that flash units "fry" modern cameras. Yes, there may be some exotic units out there or stuff may just malfunction after all those years. And I don't encourage you to try anything out without doing a bit more research. But after reading lots and lots of forums and web sites on this subject I have not found a single case where somebody actually did harm to the camera with one of these.

Its hardly a myth, and has nothing to do with exotic flash units. Older cameras had a electrical contact rather than electronics to trigger the flash. The flash could put out a high voltage kick. No problem accross mechanical contacts. Then came cameras with electronics to trigger the flash unit, and fried electronics became common until people learned not to connect those old units to a camera.


Here is a list of flashes and their voltages. All Canon units are under 6V, so anything higher carries a level of risk.

The Metz CT-45 is believed to put out about 14.8 volts, so it is a risk, but may or may not cause a problem. As you can see, some of the older Metz flash units put out 200 or even 300V, a sure way to fry your camera.

Use a wireless remote to be safe.

Revision:

I did find a post with a quote attributed to Chuck westfall stating that with the Canon 20D, and supposedly all subsequent bodies, there was a shutter redesign that resulted in a new trigger circuit that could take 250V.


http://www.prophotohome.com/forum/canon-eos-digital-slr-1-6x-sensors/53600-digital-rebel-xt-350d-flash-sync-voltage-rating.html

 

[mk]

Well, I emailed Keh and got this response this morning:

Good Morning {NAME}!!

Using that flash with your 5D should present no issues whatsoever. the Metz 45 is a handle mount flash, so it will be connected via cable to your 5D, and that will cause no voltage issues whatsover. As far as the battery goes, it won't matter if it is made in Germany,

Hope this helps!!

-Sean.



Sean McCreery
Sales Representative
KEH Camera

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Well, I emailed Keh and got this response this morning:

Good Morning {NAME}!!

Using that flash with your 5D should present no issues whatsoever. the Metz 45 is a handle mount flash, so it will be connected via cable to your 5D, and that will cause no voltage issues whatsover. As far as the battery goes, it won't matter if it is made in Germany,

Hope this helps!!
-Sean.



Sean McCreery
Sales Representative
KEH Camera

The cable makes little or no no difference to the flash voltage kick, the small amount of inductance might reduce the spike a little. Its unlikely that 15 volts it will be a issue, since there is plenty of safety margin, and the camera battery is about 12 volts. But, who knows, it might work 1000 times and the next one will fry it. Semiconductors and capacitors are that way, repeated high voltage can break them down. Using one successfully a few dozen times is no guarantee of safety.

 

[mk]

The cable makes little or no no difference to the flash voltage kick, the small amount of inductance might reduce the spike a little. Its unlikely that 15 volts it will be a issue, since there is plenty of safety margin, and the camera battery is about 12 volts. But, who knows, it might work 1000 times and the next one will fry it. Semiconductors and capacitors are that way, repeated high voltage can break them down. Using one successfully a few dozen times is no guarantee of safety.

Well....crap?

I guess a wireless remote will be the best way to go.

I guess one could always check with Canon to see if they have some input?

 

[pwp]

Here's all the information you need. It lists the trigger voltage kick of every flash on the planet.

http://www.botzilla.com/photo/strobeVolts.html

Bookmark this. It's not as easy to find as time goes by...

Paul Wright

 

[mk]

Here's all the information you need. It lists the trigger voltage kick of every flash on the planet.

http://www.botzilla.com/photo/strobeVolts.html

Bookmark this. It's not as easy to find as time goes by...

Paul Wright

Your call....

Yikes!

 

[7enderbender]

After a lot of research I think I would label it an urban myth that flash units "fry" modern cameras. Yes, there may be some exotic units out there or stuff may just malfunction after all those years. And I don't encourage you to try anything out without doing a bit more research. But after reading lots and lots of forums and web sites on this subject I have not found a single case where somebody actually did harm to the camera with one of these.

Its hardly a myth, and has nothing to do with exotic flash units. Older cameras had a electrical contact rather than electronics to trigger the flash. The flash could put out a high voltage kick. No problem accross mechanical contacts. Then came cameras with electronics to trigger the flash unit, and fried electronics became common until people learned not to connect those old units to a camera.


Here is a list of flashes and their voltages. All Canon units are under 6V, so anything higher carries a level of risk.

The Metz CT-45 is believed to put out about 14.8 volts, so it is a risk, but may or may not cause a problem. As you can see, some of the older Metz flash units put out 200 or even 300V, a sure way to fry your camera.

Use a wireless remote to be safe.

Again, I don't encourage anyone to mess around with this without proper confirmation of what the individual unit puts out - and if it may be defective or not. However, I still believe that this has turned into an urban myth to some degree at least. The 5DII is rated at 250V. There may be some very old or uncommon units that exceed that. Per my information from Metz Germany directly none of the units we discussed here fall into that category. A CT-4 or a CT-5 should (!) be safe. During my "research" on this topic I came across one type that was sold under a different brand name for a German mail order store (sold as "Revue") that looked and functioned just like a CT-4 but appears to have a much higher voltage than the normal Metz branded units.

And then again: I've so far never seen any first-hand report of somebody actually frying their 5D/5DII with a flash. Not saying it never happened, not saying that there isn't some risk involved if a number of factors occur at the same time.

And you are right: to be safe any cheap wireless trigger will be a good idea. Or any of the Wein thingies that insulate the camera. Good thing to have also if you ever shoot on a set with older strobes or so.

 

[Mt Spokane Photography]

Again, I don't encourage anyone to mess around with this without proper confirmation of what the individual unit puts out - and if it may be defective or not. However, I still believe that this has turned into an urban myth to some degree at least. The 5DII is rated at 250V. There may be some very old or uncommon units that exceed that.

The 250 volt figure appears in a online blog attributed to Chuck Westfall. Note that older DSLR bodies have a low voltage rating, but a shutter redesign after the D30, D60, D10 and Digital Rebel, starting with the 20D raised the voltage. So any newer body should be safe.

Chuck Westfall, Director/Media & Customer Relationship, Canon USA, advises as follows regarding the flash sync circuit of the EOS Digital Rebel XT (EOS 350D):

*****
The EOS Digital Rebel XT uses a modified version of the EOS 20D's shutter unit. Consequently, acceptable trigger circuit voltage for both cameras is the same, i.e., 250 volts. Except for the original Digital Rebel, all current EOS digital SLRs (i.e., EOS-1Ds Mark II, EOS-1D Mark II, EOS 20D and EOS Digital Rebel XT) generate their X-sync signals electronically rather than mechanically. This is why they have higher acceptable trigger circuit voltage ratings than earlier models like the D30, D60, 10D and original Digital Rebel. These older models cannot be modified to achieve a higher trigger circuit voltage rating, since such a modification would require a different shutter mechanism as well as a complete redesign of the supporting circuitry.
*****

Best regards,

Doug

 

[Old Shooter]

My two cents worth...

I have used Metz' and Canon EOS film bodies for years. When I bought my first digital (XSi) I called Metz and asked if I could use my 60 CT-4's. They told me "no", that the CT series was not recommended for digital cameras but the CL series was. I ended up buying a 45 CL-4 with dedicated module and have had no problem with either flash or Canon body...

I would call Metz (201-818-9500) and ask them. They have always been extremely helpful when I've dealt with them. They will also tell you every part required to make a camera communicate with one of their strobes. Lastly, they are a great source for spare parts and hard-to-get items. They will probably answer that phone "Manfrotto" because they are handling Metz USA business now...

Hope this helps!

 

[awinphoto]

For what it's worth, I had a few of those Metz 45 handlemount flashes when I was shooting film... I used them (with a hot shoe sync) on my film rebel way back when, 4x5's, medium format, etc... I even used and loved the 70 series handle mount and loved it with my rebel (film) until I got my 10D and realized it didn't work (ttl) with my 10D any more... Something about a change in the ETTL whatever... I sold the 70 series flashes and got the shoe mount MZ54 or was it 54mz.. something like that... It worked like a champ until I upgraded and got canon flashes for wireless sync... I still have a 45 series flash that I modified for UV florescent light but haven't really used it for years for a real photographic purpose but used to shoot it here and there with my 10D and 30D... I suppose there could be a voltage kickback but I never experienced anything, but it could have been blind luck...

 

[[email protected]]

Hello,
i post here my personal experience, i own two metz 45 ct-1, the oldest with a low serial number and the newest with an higher, i used both on my canon 5D mark 1, connected to the PC port directly with the metz original cable. When i need both i use a 5 euros chinese optical trigger to syncronize the second unit. May be i'm just lucky, but my camera have no problems at all.
I hope it will be the same for you, but this is just my experience.
About the synchro shutter speed, i use 1/200 or lowest, with 1/250 i obtain the tipical black bar on picture lower part.

The only official data i have on the Canon 5d Mark 1 pc port is from the original camera user manual, they say the maximum voltage we can apply to the PC port is 250V.

That's all folks!


PS I made a mistake on registration form, so my username is now my email....
Can anybody please help to modify.... ?

 

[strawpanda]

I have two Metz 45 CT-5s (one well used, one little used) and now I'm in the process of starting to use them again. In the past I used them with V-series Hasselblads, mainly for weddings, they were powerful and reliable. After a long pause I'm doing some more serious photography again, but with a Canon 5D III and a lot of lenses (converted FD, EF and Zeiss ZE). My favourites are: FD 24mm f1.4 (Lens Doctor conversion), mini-magic drainpipe, Zeiss ZE 100mm f2 macro.

I recently bought a new Canon 430EX III-RT flash, it's handy to carry round in a camera bag but it's not exactly powerful. That's where the Metzs come in. The old nicad battery packs no longer work properly, that figures. It is possible to use loose AA batteries in the empty battery-holders but in my experience that can be a bit hit and miss. Fortunately there is a very good solution. Metz now offer the B46 charger and battery set, it's expensive and it isn't. At first I thought £75 (fotosense) was a lot to pay for a charger and six batteries in a holder, but having received a set, made in Germany, I can appreciate the quality. A second set is on order.

Like many people I have read the scare stories about old flashguns frying the circuitry of modern DSLRs, so I bought a Wein HSHS 990-560 to get round that. I imported that from the USA (B+H) to the UK, a hot-shoe adaptor arrived in a large box that Customs decided duty should be paid on, so that ended up costing around £65 in total. Ouch!

While that was going on I contacted Metz in Germany about using my old SCA 511 adaptor to connect camera and flash. Their reply (3 March 2017) surprised me, and I quote: ‘Basically the flash units Mecablitz 45 CT-5 are equipped with a low-voltage ignition (ISO 10330) in any case. Therefore these flash units can be connected to the digital camera Canon EOS 5D Mark III. The camera can't be damaged by the Mecablitz 45 CT-5.’

I haven’t tried the Wein or a direct connection yet, I might play safe and check with a test meter first, but it seems that my Metzs can ride again, and I have a Wein adaptor that might come in handy for something else one day, e.g. a circuit-frying Metz 30B-3 (http://dpanswers.com/roztr/volt_finder.php). The Wein leaflet says that it will drop voltages of up to 400V down to just 6V, clever stuff.

I was toying with buying a more powerful Canon flash, perhaps a nice secondhand 600EX-RT, but then I started reading up on the supposed guide number of 60(m). To me that is very misleading as the guide number varies as the flash head zooms, with a wide-angle lens it can be as low as 26(m) (http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-600EX-RT-Speedlite-Flash-Review.aspx), which confirms my instinct that the Metz is a much more powerful flash. For what I have in mind I am quite happy to set my camera to manual and let the flash control the exposure, I did that for decades at weddings, and that was working blind with film to be processed later.