More on the Canon EOS 5D Mark IV in 2016 [CR2]

RickWagoner said:
There is a bunch of factors that go into fps. Shutter operation life, Mirror system design, Focus system, Data handling like a buffer for example, how much data is being sent, memory card speed, battery life, etc. Each of these can be affected by other operations in the camera, like for example is you're full manual but have auto ISO then your buffer rate will take a hit and that will affect how the mirror flip works.

I would not compare a 7d2 fps to a full frame as the mirror system in under a completely different load on a smaller mirror and also a smaller shutter for a smaller sensor.

If Canon would to put a 10fps burst speed in the next 5D then they either have to invest in a new mirror and shutter system, borrow one from the 1dx, or create a hybrid of both. Borrowing may be the least in cost and R&D at first but may cost much more in production. Creating a new system would cost lots of money and time to make sure it is ready for prime time, creating a hybrid is the best option as it won't need as much money invested but still lots of testing time. Is this one feature worth so much in the next 5D? Remember Canon still has to work this out with the other parts that are affected by a 10fps burst.

What i do know is Canon most likely down rated the 5D3 fps in software for quality and reliability. Like German cars detune HP and Torque from their engines via software. Most likely the 5D3 can do a 7fps burst and all the parts inside can handle it, maybe even 8fps. Even in the older parts they are using in the camera.

With todays parts they could put a 9fps burst but most likely will detune it to 8fps or 7fps in software for quality and reliability. If i had to guess it i would go 7-8 fps max and would be surprised they go 9 fps even with a battery grip.
I have to agree with you. Safely handling data is the key. Who knows, that may probably be the reason some Nikon batteries exploded in the past, maybe extremely engineered cameras to milk out too many fps? Some Nikon cameras could not even take advantage of their full speed potential unless gripped with 2 batteries inside... Overall, I think Canon put greater attention on certain aspects of safety with respect to Nikon.
 
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gmon750

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jkillsomtam said:
This is absurd timing since the difference between 5D mark ii and 5D mark iii release was roughly 3 years. Why would it now be a 4 year release? I was banking on this coming out early May and would have paid a premium price for it if it has 4k at 60fps and higher dynamic range than it's competitors. Now, I feel stuck before wedding season with the need to make a decision around NAB.

I think a lot of people are in the same boat as me and want and expect the 5D mark iv to be out shortly after NAB. Anything later is just dissapointing.

It has always been every four years between model refreshes. So far, the 5DMx is sticking to that schedule. I distinctly remember all the rumors stating it would come out last year (2015) which would have been unusual.

Only difference is that this year it may be introduced a few months later than normal.
 
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unfocused said:
Chuck Alaimo said:
Ugggg... count me as one of those wedding shooters that now need to figure out new plans...

...that leaves a very boring option, just getting another 5d3. If I do that then I may go used/refurbished because I just can't see spending that kind of capital on a 4 year old body.

So yeah, bad timing canon. :(

Might be bad timing for Canon, but sounds like great timing for you. You can purchase the latest 5D for a great price now, then take your time upgrading to the 5DIV, if you feel it is worthwhile. Which means you won't have to pay the early adopter premium, you get to shoot another season with the best available wedding camera, and can sell one of the 5Ds to help offset the cost of the 5DIV without losing much money.

Yeah, I getcha --- I mean, it's not like I'll be bummed with a 5ds - on the rentals i have had it is an awesome camera - but, I need something more capable than my 6d to fill in the second body blank. A second 5d3 is the boring, sound and reasonable path. Even brand new it's far less than a 5ds(r). I won't be able to pull the trigger until june anyway, so I have time to decide.
 
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gmon750 said:
It has always been every four years between model refreshes.

Not at all. Compared to 5D/5DII and 5DII/5DIII the 5DIV is overdue.

In fact 4 years is a really long time.

Maybe Canon thinks having 4 year cycles can "force" customers to upgrade every camera generation. Would anyone take a 6 y/o 5DIII with >200.000 shots to a Safari in Africa or another once-in-a-lifetime event as their only camera? I would certainly not risk that myself.

Fortunately, I broke out of the spider's web by getting a 5DS/R myself 8).
 
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LoneRider

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1) The whole currency thing is a rouge, free market will rule, and they will price the darn thing to maximize profit, you know, the supply/demand thing.

2) Considering what the 80D is doing to the 7D-ii, I don't see taking them limiting FPS to protect the cheaper camera sales.

3) This is going to be an instant segment leader. If this is correct, GPS, WIFI, TouchScreen, which implies DPAF (duh :D ), the only questions are

- card formats?
- FPS?
- when?
- how much?

Yeah, there are subtle things, but the IQ/DR improvements seen in the 1DX-ii and 80D are going to be there over the 5D-iii

But what features are they going to leave out, flicker?? nah.

This is going to be a Holly Grail camera that is keeping thousands and thousands credit cards in their owners wallets. My 7D and 50D will have to keep me. I've thought about getting a used 6D, but how much of a hit am I going to take keeping it for 6-12 months? My wife is just telling me to hold on until the camera I want is available. Don't waste the money and settle.

For the few extra 1DX-ii sales, would they really hold back the 5D-iv, when for all accounts it is going to be a game changer?

The FAB schedule was easy, 1DX-ii sensor out to production, 80D sensor out to production, 5D-iv sensor to production. Add in the R&D for the mirror system on the 5D-iv and other bits to go through qualification.

When you look an the design, qualification and manufacturing processes, each step takes time. Unless Canon has a whole bunch of parallel teams, you have to schedule the projects consecutively, there is only so much you can overlap.

Beyond that, add in the fact that they will need 4 to 6 months of production sitting in warehouses for initial release. The worst thing they can do is announce a product, and have 10's of thousands of people waiting for 4 months to get one.

If release date is Sept/Oct, I could readily imagine pre-production runs have already been completed, and low volume production runs have started.

This is the camera that is going to get Sony converts back :D

Oh well, that is my $0.02.
 
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LoneRider

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I am going to expand a bit on the one point people seem to completely pass.

Canon has a serious first, significant DR increase, which appears to be ADC on die, and DPAF on a FF sensor.

When you think about the R&D cycles, and process improvements in the FAB, and possibly packaging to accomplish this, it is truly an impressive accomplishment. So, for your extra year or so in the design cycle, there it is.

So with ADC on sensor, and DPAF, you also have thermal issues that have to be accounted for, and that comes down to possibly new packaging innovations. And then you need to handle automotive temp ranges, pass temperature cycle tests without delaminations, and so on.

There is a heck of a lot of work, that, to a certain extent has to be done iteratively with design cycles taking months!

It is very feasible, that Canon is in fact getting out the cameras as quickly as possible, which great quality.

But, on the other hand, I've got $3500 sitting in my bank account with a 5D-iv label on it. I want it NOW
 
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ahsanford

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Maiaibing said:
gmon750 said:
It has always been every four years between model refreshes.

Not at all. Compared to 5D/5DII and 5DII/5DIII the 5DIV is overdue.

This has come up a bunch of times in this thread. Let's get some data, eh? See below.

Announcement dates are from Wikipedia (those ought to be right on the day), release dates are from google searches (might be off a few days). For good measure, I've crudely stabbed at the 5D4 dates for a swag of how long the wait would be in total.

So yes, they are slightly slow in this refresh, though that might have something to do with...

  • The creation of the 6D line
  • The 'side-refresh' the 5DS rigs represented
  • The rise of Cinema EOS

I'm no Canon apologist, but the FF camera space was a tad less complicated before the 5D3 was released, wasn't it?

- A
 

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ahsanford said:
neuroanatomist said:
CR Forum: "You're late."

Canon: "Canon is never late. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to."

But I made a chart, Neuro!
:'(

A map on parchment, with runes visible only by the light of a moon of the same shape and season under which they were written, would have been more appropriate.

:)
 
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mrlebeau315 said:
If Sony announces an upgrade to their a7*II series this year, I think they just might take my $3,500 before Canon has an opportunity to. Let's see if Canon or Sony wants my money more.

They likely will.

Sony is churning out upgrades every year or two, and dropping models and discontinuing service almost as fast. They need to start providing service and stop discontinuing models after 3 or 4 years. When you can't get service after 4 years for a $3500 camera, its going to shock a lot of people. Actually, trying to get a recent model serviced is painfully slow. You will miss the entire wedding season if you have to have Sony service your camera in April.
 
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Mt Spokane Photography said:
mrlebeau315 said:
If Sony announces an upgrade to their a7*II series this year, I think they just might take my $3,500 before Canon has an opportunity to. Let's see if Canon or Sony wants my money more.

They likely will.

Sony is churning out upgrades every year or two, and dropping models and discontinuing service almost as fast. They need to start providing service and stop discontinuing models after 3 or 4 years. When you can't get service after 4 years for a $3500 camera, its going to shock a lot of people. Actually, trying to get a recent model serviced is painfully slow. You will miss the entire wedding season if you have to have Sony service your camera in April.
They are no better with servicing F65, F55 & F5 cameras!
 
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So I have seen subtopics in here discussing 8 fps vs 10 fps - but one item that I haven't seen discussed in this thread is the "doability" of 10 fps on a FF sensor while also having a silent shutter similar to the 5Diii. The 1DX and 1DX obviously show that Canon can do the faster speed but the shutter design for that speed on the FF sensor also makes it very noisy.

The 7Dii has the 10 fps but due to the smaller sensor it seems that Canon was able to find a way to design that shutter to get to 10 fps while not being as noisy as the 1DX or 1DXii.

So the question in my mind is, will Canon be able to give us 10 fps in a FF with a silent shutter that the wedding market segment needs?
 
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Don Haines

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Dverb said:
So I have seen subtopics in here discussing 8 fps vs 10 fps - but one item that I haven't seen discussed in this thread is the "doability" of 10 fps on a FF sensor while also having a silent shutter similar to the 5Diii. The 1DX and 1DX obviously show that Canon can do the faster speed but the shutter design for that speed on the FF sensor also makes it very noisy.

The 7Dii has the 10 fps but due to the smaller sensor it seems that Canon was able to find a way to design that shutter to get to 10 fps while not being as noisy as the 1DX or 1DXii.

So the question in my mind is, will Canon be able to give us 10 fps in a FF with a silent shutter that the wedding market segment needs?
The 7D2 does 10FPS..... but that is with the normal "loud" shutter. In the silent shutter mode it drops to 5FPS.
 
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ahsanford

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Dverb said:
So the question in my mind is, will Canon be able to give us 10 fps in a FF with a silent shutter that the wedding market segment needs?

Weddings need 10 fps? I am not a wedding photographer, but I seldom see pros leaning on their shutter button when I attend weddings myself.

Wouldn't you go with the 'loud' shutter for 10 fps action/sports/wildlife work and a slower quiet shutter for events/weddings/concerts?

Forgive my confusion -- I mean no disrespect, but I just don't understand your need for 10 fps silent shooting.

- A
 
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Don Haines

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ahsanford said:
Dverb said:
So the question in my mind is, will Canon be able to give us 10 fps in a FF with a silent shutter that the wedding market segment needs?

Weddings need 10 fps? I am not a wedding photographer, but I seldom see pros leaning on their shutter button when I attend weddings myself.

Wouldn't you go with the 'loud' shutter for 10 fps action/sports/wildlife work and a slower quiet shutter for events/weddings/concerts?

- A
I don't know..... after 12 expressos bridezilla is moving around like a hummingbird :)
 
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Mt Spokane Photography said:
Sony is churning out upgrades every year or two, and dropping models and discontinuing service almost as fast. They need to start providing service and stop discontinuing models after 3 or 4 years. When you can't get service after 4 years for a $3500 camera, its going to shock a lot of people.

Not to worry. Sony releases such technologically astounding new models so frequently that no self-respecting Sony user could live with themselves if using a camera even 18 months old, let alone a decrepit 4 year old piece of garbage not even suitable for a trash heap. Or so I've learned reading this forum. ::)
 
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Don Haines said:
ahsanford said:
Dverb said:
So the question in my mind is, will Canon be able to give us 10 fps in a FF with a silent shutter that the wedding market segment needs?

Weddings need 10 fps? I am not a wedding photographer, but I seldom see pros leaning on their shutter button when I attend weddings myself.

Wouldn't you go with the 'loud' shutter for 10 fps action/sports/wildlife work and a slower quiet shutter for events/weddings/concerts?

- A
I don't know..... after 12 expressos bridezilla is moving around like a hummingbird :)

Ok, that was LOL
 
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