More Specifications & Images of EOS 5D Mark IV

[Mikehit]

Without reading 100 pages, I wonder at 30MP and "old" card tech what will the buffer be RAW? Given an extra 1FPS you have to wonder if this "pixel beast" will grind to a halt after 6 or seven frames... :-\

The 5D3 buffer was 30-odd frames if I recall correctly so I see no reason the 5D4 would be as low as '6 or 7'.
How big a buffer do you need?

 

[tron]

Without reading 100 pages, I wonder at 30MP and "old" card tech what will the buffer be RAW? Given an extra 1FPS you have to wonder if this "pixel beast" will grind to a halt after 6 or seven frames... :-\

The 5D3 buffer was 30-odd frames if I recall correctly so I see no reason the 5D4 would be as low as '6 or 7'.
How big a buffer do you need?

If they could make it a little more than 30 it would be nice. But 150MB/sec UDMA 7 cards are not so bad. Also a Seagate CFAST 64GB is just 50% faster (2xxMB/sec) . The difference is not huge.

 

[hne]

What's the range I can adjust the focus / bokeh?

Don't know, but given small amount of data to work with (as opposed to say what's in the Lytro cameras), I'd guess "not very wide." Not that it is characterized as "micro adjustment."

End of Speculation

Wish warning:

I hope that "micro" is enough to safe photos where the intended focus is missed by about 3mm.

End of Wish

If it is anything like the Lytro tech, you're gonna be limited to getting in focus no more than what you could have gained by stopping down one stop. At best. Still, one full stop when you've got critical focus on the eye lashes could theoretically allow you to move it somewhere between 5mm and 1/4" which might well be enough to save the shot.

 

[Meatcurry]

Re: --> 4K Video Limitations --> Re: More Specifications & Images of EOS 5D Mark IV

As a 5DII and 5DIII lover with lots of EF glass, I've said it many times here and I'll say it again- Canon needs to provide more value to its video customers and not just lead them on by trickling down the latest video features- such as 4K- to prosumers years after they've reached competitors' products.

'Needs to'?
Why. They have clearly chosen the 5D to be a mainly stills camera and created the DC range for videographers.

Yes, Canon maintains steady profits by doing so, but there are other ways to make profit, namely, by cannibalizing yourself and your own products to find what consumers want and selling on volume. Follow the lead of companies like Apple (under Jobs), who were fearless in coming out with new and better products that cannibalized existing lines because those products were the future. Canon needs fearless leadership to do this, and it won't happen overnight, but when you're ahead, as Canon still is, you have to be a bit risky and we've just not seen that so far from their video integration with the 5D line, since the 5DII.

Is this this the same Apple company who for the last couple of iterations have been accused of stagnating?
Breaking new ground in a mobile phone was easy meat once you had the idea - merely putting cameras and the like in phones was itself a big step forward. Photography on the other hand is relatively mature and you only need took at the problems phone manufacturers now have in creating something new to see how difficult it has been for camera manufacturers to do the same for quite a while now.
There has been precious little developments on sensor technology for several years so are you suggesting that all camera manufacturers are running some sort of technological cartel and agreeing not to release anything truly innovative ?

If the dynamic range is right, this camera will be everything I want in a stills camera, but sorely lacking if the 4K video is hobbled in some way. Canon also could have implemented 120fps in 1080p mode for us video shooters, but hobbled it to up-sell to the Cinema EOS line and higher end models. This has got to stop if they want to maintain brand loyalty and goodwill among their customers. Come on, Canon- you can do so much better. Don't think about marketing and protecting existing models, think about making the all around BEST products.

As has been repeated several times to the video crowd, there are massive technological problems with things like heat generation and processing power when getting a camera to be both a stills and video. And if you are willing to pay the price why not buy a video camera if your required specifications are that high?
Why do you think the 1DC is great at video but falls down on stills?

And just so everyone knows, this is constructive criticism, because I want them to provide the best possible Canon products to me for my use as a hybrid stills / video shooter.

Fair enough. But when you are going to criticise a company at least make sure your criticisms are valid.

How does the 1DC fall down on stills, it's same as the 1DX save for firmware, heat sink and headphone jack?

 

[unfocused]

Re: --> 4K Video Limitations --> Re: More Specifications & Images of EOS 5D Mark IV

Yes, Canon maintains steady profits by doing so, but there are other ways to make profit, namely, by cannibalizing yourself and your own products to find what consumers want and selling on volume. Follow the lead of companies like Apple (under Jobs), who were fearless in coming out with new and better products that cannibalized existing lines because those products were the future.

Comments like this are always funny.

How exactly did Apple 'cannibalize' itself?

Well, lets see: They had a failing home computer business with rapidly shrinking marketshare. So, they jumped into the personal music device market and in typical Apple fashion they used a proprietary format so they could control the entire chain, trying to lock customers into buying music only through them.

Then, they decided to add their music players to cell phones. They stumbled into a successful model only because a camera was added as an afterthought. Something they never foresaw. But, what they did do was tightly control access and pricing and retain their closed eco-system.

Then they made a giant version of their non-phone device (iPad)

Along the way, their original core business (home computers) has become a niche product for them, selling only high-end, overpriced and under-powered products that account for about 7.4% of the total market.

So, the obvious conclusion is that those who want Canon to 'cannibalize' itself would like to see a company that all but abandons the consumer market, offers only stylish, high-end cameras that cost significantly more than their competitors but uses an entirely closed eco-system, requiring buyers to only use Canon memory cards, batteries, lenses, bags, tripods, lights, etc., all the while under-performing the competition.

It might be great for Canon as a business (and they certainly are diversifying) but it wouldn't be so great for consumers interested in cameras.

 

[scyrene]

Then later I went 1DX, I felt 1DX was even better. Which is strange as they are supposed to have same/similar AF. Could be that my brain just tried to justify the extra price, but for sure it felt better. Placebo maybe.

Not just placebo - the 1Dx has the same AF module as the 5D3 but other bits and pieces that make AF better overall (a better metering sensor, more processors, higher bettery voltage; I'm sure there are many experts here who can be more specific!).

 

[jayphotoworks]

Re: --> 4K Video Limitations --> Re: More Specifications & Images of EOS 5D Mark IV

As a 5DII and 5DIII lover with lots of EF glass, I've said it many times here and I'll say it again- Canon needs to provide more value to its video customers and not just lead them on by trickling down the latest video features- such as 4K- to prosumers years after they've reached competitors' products. Yes, Canon maintains steady profits by doing so, but there are other ways to make profit, namely, by cannibalizing yourself and your own products to find what consumers want and selling on volume. Follow the lead of companies like Apple (under Jobs), who were fearless in coming out with new and better products that cannibalized existing lines because those products were the future. Canon needs fearless leadership to do this, and it won't happen overnight, but when you're ahead, as Canon still is, you have to be a bit risky and we've just not seen that so far from their video integration with the 5D line, since the 5DII.

If the dynamic range is right, this camera will be everything I want in a stills camera, but sorely lacking if the 4K video is hobbled in some way. Canon also could have implemented 120fps in 1080p mode for us video shooters, but hobbled it to up-sell to the Cinema EOS line and higher end models. This has got to stop if they want to maintain brand loyalty and goodwill among their customers. Come on, Canon- you can do so much better. Don't think about marketing and protecting existing models, think about making the all around BEST products.

And just so everyone knows, this is constructive criticism, because I want them to provide the best possible Canon products to me for my use as a hybrid stills / video shooter. Right now, I'm really on the fence between this and a Sony, and I'd really rather go with Canon. So here's to hoping the 5DIV announcement will surprise me and prove this wrong.

Rant = over.

You video folk are so pesky! Buy a video camera. They shoot video.

I used to really be on the other side of the fence. I would come in and say, why the heck do they need to offer so many video features on a ILC.. Just get a camcorder or something. That was 3-4 years ago. Nowadays, that is exactly what I have been doing myself. Blackmagic and Panasonic are my go to systems for video production work and Canon just for stills work. Between EF and M43 formats, they represent a widely accepted mature format that won't suddenly be abandonware tomorrow.

Part of me is selfish, in wanting an OEM solution for that EF glass that can double duty as a great hybrid body, but like others have said, it isn't Canon's "style" and they will not cross pollinate their Cinema line DNA into their DSLR line anytime soon.

What is interesting is that the 5D2 is what got me into this transition in the first place. Canon steered me into a completely new direction, enough that I actually went to into specific products. Some people starting off may not be in the same boat, and some might start off into Sony camp because they are indeed looking for an all-in-one hybrid system to start off with that can offer great stills and video simultaneously that doesn't have a "gimped" feature set.

I consider myself fortunate with the path I took mainly because I bought into Canon's ecosystem from the stills days and these days I have so many options I can take to develop the video side of things. If I had a bag of FE glass or (shudder) A-mount glass, I would be in for some serious damage to switch.

 

[GMCPhotographics]

Then later I went 1DX, I felt 1DX was even better. Which is strange as they are supposed to have same/similar AF. Could be that my brain just tried to justify the extra price, but for sure it felt better. Placebo maybe.

Not just placebo - the 1Dx has the same AF module as the 5D3 but other bits and pieces that make AF better overall (a better metering sensor, more processors, higher bettery voltage; I'm sure there are many experts here who can be more specific!).

Generally, there is little between the 5D3 and 1Dx AF system. But there are two distinct differences, firstly the 1Dx batteries run at a higher voltage. This gives a little more oomph when driving big white super-tele lenses. Secondly, the 1Dx has a dedicated AF processor and face / colour recognition firmware. In normal shooting modes this doesn't make much difference, except when you engage all 61 AF points in AI servo and then it's quite apparent. The 1Dx tracks and maintains it's focus point better than the 5D3. That said, the 5D3 isn't far behind. I think the 1Dx needs a superior AF system to track reliably at 12fps. I think the 5D3 is comparible in it's accuracy and tracking for a 6fps camera. I think they are comparable, but bare in mind the requirements of a much faster fps camera has to keep all 12 shots tracked and in focus.

 

[E]

What i would love to see in 5DmkIV in improvements and don´t have (at least not konwn):

- 1080HD 120fps (althoug of course i understand why doesn´t have)

Yes. Why no 1080p 120fps? Mjpeg would be OK. It is definitely not too much to ask for, 2016.

'Needs to'?
Why. They have clearly chosen the 5D to be a mainly stills camera and created the DC range for videographers.

Then where is the new DC camera? The 1DC arrived together with the 1DX. 1DC is hopelessly outdated - no slow motion.


General question: Is it correct that Magic lantern increased the speed of the 5D Mark III, from normal speed to double speed? (50fps/60fps)?

 

[Mr. Milo]

Re: --> 4K Video Limitations --> Re: More Specifications & Images of EOS 5D Mark IV

You video folk are so pesky! Buy a video camera. They shoot video.

I've said in previous posts to not post stuff like this dismissing Videographers. The 5D Mark II, Mark III, and Mark IV are DIGITAL FILM CAMERAS, too. Not just stills. They can film. They shoot video.

We already invested in the Canon lens. When Videographers come in the forum and want to piss and moan about the Mark IV's video capabilities, that's fine.

It's just like Photographers pissing and moaning about dynamic range and pixel peeping. It's no big deal. That's what this forum is about.

Anyways, the Mark IV will be a great DSLR. If a Videographer wants to buy it to shoot video, that's fine. It's more than capable to do good work. It's not as great as a Canon C100 Mark II, but it can still do the job. Then again, the Mark IV and Canon C100 will have trade offs so it's up to the Videographer want they want to prioritize.

Videographers cannot afford The Canon C300 Mark II and above. That's why we barely mention it.

 

[Go Wild]

What i would love to see in 5DmkIV in improvements and don´t have (at least not konwn):

- 1080HD 120fps (althoug of course i understand why doesn´t have)

Yes. Why no 1080p 120fps? Mjpeg would be OK. It is definitely not too much to ask for, 2016.

'Needs to'?
Why. They have clearly chosen the 5D to be a mainly stills camera and created the DC range for videographers.

Then where is the new DC camera? The 1DC arrived together with the 1DX. 1DC is hopelessly outdated - no slow motion.


General question: Is it correct that Magic lantern increased the speed of the 5D Mark III, from normal speed to double speed? (50fps/60fps)?

Well, from my point of view, Canon want´s a difference in products and don´t want to canibalize cameras. 1080HD 120fps and 4k60fps are in the 1DxII and if you want this, you need to buy the 1DxII. We may not like it, or wish that 5dIV also had this, but it´s just the way it is. According to video features this is the difference between cameras and canon don´t want to every camera has everything. For me, it makes sense, even if i would want like everybody else to see that in 5D4. Let me put you in this way....If i were to purchase a camera to shoot video, and i have the same specs in 1DxII and 5D4, wich camera i would buy? And i mean just for video. The answer is obvious, the 5d4. But instead, i have a difference....if i want 4k 50 or 60fps and 1080HD120fps i only have one choice....to buy the 1dxII. If i can live with 720hd120fps and 4k30fps then i would get the 5d4. This can make us upset, or not very happy because we need to spend more to get the best things, but....isn´t that a normal market issue?

I think we will see a new 1Dc real soon!

I only use ML for a short period of time in my 5d3 and it was long 2 years ago so i really dont remember if it increases fps, can´t help on that.

You video folk are so pesky! Buy a video camera. They shoot video.

I've said in previous posts to not post stuff like this dismissing Videographers. The 5D Mark II, Mark III, and Mark IV are DIGITAL FILM CAMERAS, too. Not just stills. They can film. They shoot video.

We already invested in the Canon lens. When Videographers come in the forum and want to piss and moan about the Mark IV's video capabilities, that's fine.

It's just like Photographers pissing and moaning about dynamic range and pixel peeping. It's no big deal. That's what this forum is about.

Anyways, the Mark IV will be a great DSLR. If a Videographer wants to buy it to shoot video, that's fine. It's more than capable to do good work. It's not as great as a Canon C100 Mark II, but it can still do the job. Then again, the Mark IV and Canon C100 will have trade offs so it's up to the Videographer want they want to prioritize.

Videographers cannot afford The Canon C300 Mark II and above. That's why we barely mention it.

Well it´s all about this! Agree with your words, but however....DSLRs were primarily and mainly for stills...video as come after, so it is normal co consider a DSLR a still camera in first hand....But you are right.

 

[E]

Well, from my point of view, Canon want´s a difference in products and don´t want to canibalize cameras. 1080HD 120fps and 4k60fps are in the 1DxII and if you want this, you need to buy the 1DxII. We may not like it, or wish that 5dIV also had this, but it´s just the way it is. According to video features this is the difference between cameras and canon don´t want to every camera has everything. For me, it makes sense, even if i would want like everybody else to see that in 5D4. Let me put you in this way....If i were to purchase a camera to shoot video, and i have the same specs in 1DxII and 5D4, wich camera i would buy? And i mean just for video. The answer is obvious, the 5d4. But instead, i have a difference....if i want 4k 50 or 60fps and 1080HD120fps i only have one choice....to buy the 1dxII. If i can live with 720hd120fps and 4k30fps then i would get the 5d4. This can make us upset, or not very happy because we need to spend more to get the best things, but....isn´t that a normal market issue?

I think we will see a new 1Dc real soon!

I only use ML for a short period of time in my 5d3 and it was long 2 years ago so i really dont remember if it increases fps, can´t help on that.

Yes, I know that 1D X Mark II exists, but it has many disadvantages. It is heavier to carry around and to fly with. It is way more expensive, and therefore scary to carry around alone, as you might be robbed.

And there is this rumor, from a test site, that the 1080p isn't as sharp as in the 1 DC. That Canon has put all their energy into the 4K, and then I would be stuck again with a camera that hasn't got 100/120fps in a usable format.

(And no, all who feel compelled to tell me, I don't want to buy a designated video camera. But I'm not complaining about the specs for stills. Canon already has all I want for taking stills.)

It's such a little thing, and it was in the rumors some months ago - that we would get 100/120fps in the Mark IV. Regarding Magic lantern I was dreaming that they could fix that, but perhaps the Mark IV would risk overheating at that speed.

5D Mark IV looks excellent in every other aspect. But I've been waiting for so many years for this one single feature: 100/120fps. I don't want to wait for another 5 years, to see if it will be there in Mark V.

Are you just hoping for a 1 DC Mark II, or have you heard something? The Canon guy in the demonstration video for 1D X Mark II seemed to think that that camera replaced the whole line in a satisfactory way.

 

[scyrene]

'Needs to'?
Why. They have clearly chosen the 5D to be a mainly stills camera and created the DC range for videographers.

Then where is the new DC camera? The 1DC arrived together with the 1DX. 1DC is hopelessly outdated - no slow motion.

I think he meant the EOS Cinema range (C100, C300, C500, etc).

 

[scyrene]

Re: --> 4K Video Limitations --> Re: More Specifications & Images of EOS 5D Mark IV

You video folk are so pesky! Buy a video camera. They shoot video.

It's just like Photographers pissing and moaning about dynamic range and pixel peeping. It's no big deal. That's what this forum is about.

Anyways, the Mark IV will be a great DSLR. If a Videographer wants to buy it to shoot video, that's fine. It's more than capable to do good work. It's not as great as a Canon C100 Mark II, but it can still do the job. Then again, the Mark IV and Canon C100 will have trade offs so it's up to the Videographer want they want to prioritize.

Videographers cannot afford The Canon C300 Mark II and above. That's why we barely mention it.

Actually, it's more like photographers criticising the stills capability of the Canon cinema cameras.

As for not being able to afford it, sure - but that's not really Canon's fault, is it? If your budget is tight, or you're a hobbyist, you have to make serious compromises. And from what I gather, videography is not something you can do on as low a budget as stills photography.

Edit: they could put all the features you want into a budget model, but I'm guessing that wouldn't be a very good business decision.

 

[naylor83]

One thing I hope they improve compared to the 7D2: Startup time from sleep mode.

The 7D2 is (compared to all other Canon's I've owned: 30D, 50D, 7D) slow as a sleuth booting up from sleep mode when half pressing the shutter. For some reason it is much faster when starting up from full OFF using the power switch on the mode dial.

 

[jayphotoworks]

Re: --> 4K Video Limitations --> Re: More Specifications & Images of EOS 5D Mark IV

You video folk are so pesky! Buy a video camera. They shoot video.

It's just like Photographers pissing and moaning about dynamic range and pixel peeping. It's no big deal. That's what this forum is about.

Anyways, the Mark IV will be a great DSLR. If a Videographer wants to buy it to shoot video, that's fine. It's more than capable to do good work. It's not as great as a Canon C100 Mark II, but it can still do the job. Then again, the Mark IV and Canon C100 will have trade offs so it's up to the Videographer want they want to prioritize.

Videographers cannot afford The Canon C300 Mark II and above. That's why we barely mention it.

Actually, it's more like photographers criticising the stills capability of the Canon cinema cameras.

As for not being able to afford it, sure - but that's not really Canon's fault, is it? If your budget is tight, or you're a hobbyist, you have to make serious compromises. And from what I gather, videography is not something you can do on as low a budget as stills photography.

Edit: they could put all the features you want into a budget model, but I'm guessing that wouldn't be a very good business decision.

You can definitely shoot video on a lower budget. Actually, many people start this way for a lot of wedding related work. For some jobs, you want a great hybrid system that comes out with great color science on a smallish h.264 codec that doesn't need grading ready for a nice highlight reel deliverable. You come in with a backpack, a fluid head monopod and a few lenses and you are set. Add a second shooter/assistant and a laptop and you can add a quick same day edit in there during the reception. Those people considering this use case may not gravitate towards the 5d line because there are other options with easier workflow that can also do double duty for stills work. Right off the top, these shooters that want to shoot in 4K probably don't want to offload 64GB cards every 15mins and have to transcode to Prores on site just to be able to work on the same day edit.

 

[scyrene]

Re: --> 4K Video Limitations --> Re: More Specifications & Images of EOS 5D Mark IV

You video folk are so pesky! Buy a video camera. They shoot video.

It's just like Photographers pissing and moaning about dynamic range and pixel peeping. It's no big deal. That's what this forum is about.

Anyways, the Mark IV will be a great DSLR. If a Videographer wants to buy it to shoot video, that's fine. It's more than capable to do good work. It's not as great as a Canon C100 Mark II, but it can still do the job. Then again, the Mark IV and Canon C100 will have trade offs so it's up to the Videographer want they want to prioritize.

Videographers cannot afford The Canon C300 Mark II and above. That's why we barely mention it.

Actually, it's more like photographers criticising the stills capability of the Canon cinema cameras.

As for not being able to afford it, sure - but that's not really Canon's fault, is it? If your budget is tight, or you're a hobbyist, you have to make serious compromises. And from what I gather, videography is not something you can do on as low a budget as stills photography.

Edit: they could put all the features you want into a budget model, but I'm guessing that wouldn't be a very good business decision.

You can definitely shoot video on a lower budget. Actually, many people start this way for a lot of wedding related work. For some jobs, you want a great hybrid system that comes out with great color science on a smallish h.264 codec that doesn't need grading ready for a nice highlight reel deliverable. You come in with a backpack, a fluid head monopod and a few lenses and you are set. Add a second shooter/assistant and a laptop and you can add a quick same day edit in there during the reception. Those people considering this use case may not gravitate towards the 5d line because there are other options with easier workflow that can also do double duty for stills work. Right off the top, these shooters that want to shoot in 4K probably don't want to offload 64GB cards every 15mins and have to transcode to Prores on site just to be able to work on the same day edit.

Oh okay. I think of people *making films*, but wedding photography/filming is another matter. I'm not sure brides and grooms really care about the minutiae of critical quality that some people discuss here, but I defer to those with greater knowledge.

Although it's still cheaper (and a lot easier) to get 'good' stills.

 

[davidhfe]

Re: --> 4K Video Limitations --> Re: More Specifications & Images of EOS 5D Mark IV

Yes, Canon maintains steady profits by doing so, but there are other ways to make profit, namely, by cannibalizing yourself and your own products to find what consumers want and selling on volume. Follow the lead of companies like Apple (under Jobs), who were fearless in coming out with new and better products that cannibalized existing lines because those products were the future.

How exactly did Apple 'cannibalize' itself?

Apple's product lines absolutely compete against each other and cannibalize each other. It's probably most obvious with the iPod and MacBook lines. The HDD based iPod was very successful, but Apple relatively quickly started offering competing flash-based products, even though flash memory was still expensive and those products were on balance less profitable than the old design. The mini, then the nano, etc. Some (like the shuffle) were misses but overall the iPod maintained dominance in part by Apple not protecting the old HDD player.

This strategy doesn't preclude individual products and lines having good lifetime profit margins, as is the case with most of Apple's products. But they absolutely take a hit when tooling up new lines and if you listen to the finance calls they give guidance as such. And Apple does certainly protect certain products (Mac Pro, I'm looking at you)

Bringing it back to the camera world, an analogue might be Canon releasing a mirrorless camera that directly competed with the 5 series (which, for the record, I think they will do as soon as they're happy enough with DPAF)

 

[privatebydesign]

The 35 f2 IS is the greatest walk around general purpose lens I have ever used. Great for environmental portraits, killer for stitched panos when used in portrait orientation, not too big and heavy or intrusive but fast enough and the IS is a godsend. With the pixel rich 5DSr it gives a very good rendering of a 50mm perspective, which although it has gone out of favour to a large extent still makes compelling images, just stand back and crop. If I could only have one lens it would be the 35 f2 IS.

That's it. You've sold it to me, my 40 pancake is no more. Also I've found I need the IS if I'm to move on to even higher mp cameras

Oh no, is it my fault if you don't like it?

One thing I really like at f2, which I know you won't use much, is the vignetting. Of course it is easily removed in post, indeed my import setting remove it by default, but I often end up putting it back on to the best of the keepers.

 

[privatebydesign]

Re: --> 4K Video Limitations --> Re: More Specifications & Images of EOS 5D Mark IV

Yes, Canon maintains steady profits by doing so, but there are other ways to make profit, namely, by cannibalizing yourself and your own products to find what consumers want and selling on volume. Follow the lead of companies like Apple (under Jobs), who were fearless in coming out with new and better products that cannibalized existing lines because those products were the future.

Comments like this are always funny.

How exactly did Apple 'cannibalize' itself?

........Then, they decided to add their music players to cell phones...........

There is zero doubt that Apple deliberately cannibalized themselves, Jobs himself said in the iPhone keynote "the best iPod Apple ever made was an iPhone" .

That was no accident, they had made a very strong business with the iPod and completely ate it with the iPhone.