New 4K ILC Coming From Canon in 2018, Not Cinema EOS [CR2]

[CarlMillerPhoto]

Canon processors appear to run too hot to do hardware encoded 4K without a cooling solution, so don't count on any hybrid style cameras that do that any time soon (that includes the 7DIII as well btw). The latest iteration of the Digic family (DV6) still have this failing, and likely the corresponding Digic 8 will as well.

My guess is that they will make an XC variant with an ILC mount, but otherwise with a similar design. The 7DIII, when it comes out later this year, will probably still use MJPEG for 4K video because of the heat issue.

Based on what we have seen so far, and extrapolating from how Canon works, the earliest that 4K will appear in consumer cameras is 2019 IMO.

I have many EF lenses, so anything that can use those lenses with a large sensor is a win. I'd be happy with a XCxx form-factor that took EF lenses and had a cooling fan. Like bsbeamer stated, the codec is key. The 5DIV solution is ok for a stills camera, not for a video camera.

I would not hesitate to buy an XC model ILC if it had EF mount, APS-C sized sensor, and 4K 60p with efficient codec.

That already exists and it's called the C200.

 

[CarlMillerPhoto]

The fact that it's not in the Cinema line tells me it's not going to have professional features. Even more confusing are people excited about an XC type ILC...those people don't want a 1" sensor they want super35, and that camera already exists in the C100 line. You're not going to get an XC10/15 sized camera with an EF mount because of physics.

I'm still waiting for the C100 MkIII....AKA the C200 without raw. Is Canon still continuing the C100 line? We're approaching 3 years since the release of the Mark II (the I and II were released 2 years 8 months apart) and not even a rumor of a III.

 

[transpo1]

Canon processors appear to run too hot to do hardware encoded 4K without a cooling solution, so don't count on any hybrid style cameras that do that any time soon (that includes the 7DIII as well btw). The latest iteration of the Digic family (DV6) still have this failing, and likely the corresponding Digic 8 will as well.

My guess is that they will make an XC variant with an ILC mount, but otherwise with a similar design. The 7DIII, when it comes out later this year, will probably still use MJPEG for 4K video because of the heat issue.

Based on what we have seen so far, and extrapolating from how Canon works, the earliest that 4K will appear in consumer cameras is 2019 IMO.

I have many EF lenses, so anything that can use those lenses with a large sensor is a win. I'd be happy with a XCxx form-factor that took EF lenses and had a cooling fan. Like bsbeamer stated, the codec is key. The 5DIV solution is ok for a stills camera, not for a video camera.

I would not hesitate to buy an XC model ILC if it had EF mount, APS-C sized sensor, and 4K 60p with efficient codec.

That already exists and it's called the C200.

Not the same size / form factor- nice try, though.

 

[ajm]

I had given up on Canon video after the garbage 4k in the 5d4 and hearing of 1.4 crop 4k on the upcoming 7d3. This arouses my curiosity, but only a little because sensor size is everything. If it's anything smaller than 1.4x FF, it will immediately be relegated to junk status or DOA as far as I am concerned.

The fact that they are letting us know well in advance that it won't be cinemas EOS which itself is a sub FF system, and the fact that Canon are known to not cannibalize their own systems, tells me it will be a lesser system than Cinema EOS. As in cheaper, with fewer features and a 'tiny' sensor. So I am not keeping my hopes up. In the words of the president, "we will see."

It will have an ND filter of it it is like the XC series, they have a built in ND. Heck, the new XF400 have them now.

 

[goldenhusky]

I am really excited about this camera. I hope this is not like the 5D4 firmware update rumor we had earlier in 2017

I would like
8-12mp sensor newer tech like the 80d
Decent DR
4k30p internal recording. 4k60p would be nice but I am fairly confident Canon will not do it
1080p60 fps. 1080p120 fps would be nice but less likely
8 bit 4:2:0. 10bit 4:2:2 will be nice but less likely
Full sensor read out
Dual pixel AF - This is granted I guess
No pixel binning
Focus peaking
Zebras
C-Log
4k RAW out less likely
SD UHS ll or CFast2.0 card
Articulated touch screen

Even with the lower end specs I guess it will be a good camera for $2k. Hey but you never know this camera might not come out at all after all it is Canon

 

[bhf3737]

I had given up on Canon video after the garbage 4k in the 5d4 and hearing of 1.4 crop 4k on the upcoming 7d3. This arouses my curiosity, but only a little because sensor size is everything. If it's anything smaller than 1.4x FF, it will immediately be relegated to junk status or DOA as far as I am concerned.

Below is 4K crop factor of several recent cameras.

1) APS-C and mFT cameras:
Nikon D500 has 2.25x crop factor (sensor read area is smaller than mFT)
Fujifilm XT-2 has 1.79x crop factor (1.17x of APS-C, sensor read area is larger than mFT)
Sony A6300 has 1.50x crop factor (sensor read area is larger than mFT)
Panasonic GH5 has 2x crop factor (standard mFT)
Panasonic GH4 has 2.2x crop factor (sensor read area is slightly smaller than mFT)

2) Full frame cameras:
Sony A7S II has 1.x crop factor
Sony A7R II has 1.50x crop factor (super 35 mode)
Nikon D5 has 1.45x to 1.50x crop factor
Canon 1DC has 1.26x crop factor
Canon 1DX II has 1.33x to 1.42x crop factor
Canon 5D IV has 1.64x to 1.75x crop factor

Based on your logic, every Nikon, Fuji, Panasonic will fail your test of 1.4x FF crop factor and are junk!!
The only ones that pass are Canon 1DC, Canon 1DX II, and Sony A7S II. Still two Canons, with higher resolution sensors that Sony, make the list.

 

[criscokkat]

Below is 4K crop factor of several recent cameras.

1) APS-C and mFT cameras:
Nikon D500 has 2.25x crop factor (sensor read area is smaller than mFT)
Fujifilm XT-2 has 1.79x crop factor (1.17x of APS-C, sensor read area is larger than mFT)
Sony A6300 has 1.50x crop factor (sensor read area is larger than mFT)
Panasonic GH5 has 2x crop factor (standard mFT)
Panasonic GH4 has 2.2x crop factor (sensor read area is slightly smaller than mFT)

2) Full frame cameras:
Sony A7S II has 1.x crop factor
Sony A7R II has 1.50x crop factor (super 35 mode)
Nikon D5 has 1.45x to 1.50x crop factor
Canon 1DC has 1.26x crop factor
Canon 1DX II has 1.33x to 1.42x crop factor
Canon 5D IV has 1.64x to 1.75x crop factor

All of the above cameras can be used for video work, but they are not ideal for video work due to the design of their bodies.

I suspect that with the explosion of professional youtubers and the explosion of photo journalists also being tasked with video work that at least one of these manufacturers above is looking to build a camcorder using the same chip and lens mount, thus leveraging any quiet focusing lenses that are already in their catalog as video lenses as well. Sony was a little early to market with the vg10/20/30 line as they didn't have the lenses to really back it up, and since have let their cameras take over that segment. But if Canon jumps into this market with a 2k or less dedicated aps-c e-mount camcorder before anyone else has a direct competing product around the 2k mark they'll have a leg up for once. They might cannibalize the c200 level market some, but it's already being cannibalized anyways by regular cameras.

 

[Talys]

I suspect that with the explosion of professional youtubers and the explosion of photo journalists also being tasked with video work that at least one of these manufacturers above is looking to build a camcorder using the same chip and lens mount, thus leveraging any quiet focusing lenses that are already in their catalog as video lenses as well. Sony was a little early to market with the vg10/20/30 line as they didn't have the lenses to really back it up, and since have let their cameras take over that segment. But if Canon jumps into this market with a 2k or less dedicated aps-c e-mount camcorder before anyone else has a direct competing product around the 2k mark they'll have a leg up for once. They might cannibalize the c200 level market some, but it's already being cannibalized anyways by regular cameras.

I'm not super knowledgeable on the subject, not a little in part because I really don't care about video. However, other than ergonomics and form factor, aren't smaller sensors generally more desirable for "cheap" camcorders? My understanding is that with video, generally, it's desirable to have most of the frame as much in focus as possible, and that's easier to accomplish with wider FL's on small sensors, especially when it's a single guy running around a wedding with a camcorder who can't properly light whatever it is they want to record.

It seems to me that what a lot of this exploding video market wants is a higher-end consumer camcorder with better quality, interchangeable lenses that costs a fraction of professional quality tools, rather than a DSLR that can take great videos.

 

[criscokkat]

I suspect that with the explosion of professional youtubers and the explosion of photo journalists also being tasked with video work that at least one of these manufacturers above is looking to build a camcorder using the same chip and lens mount, thus leveraging any quiet focusing lenses that are already in their catalog as video lenses as well. Sony was a little early to market with the vg10/20/30 line as they didn't have the lenses to really back it up, and since have let their cameras take over that segment. But if Canon jumps into this market with a 2k or less dedicated aps-c e-mount camcorder before anyone else has a direct competing product around the 2k mark they'll have a leg up for once. They might cannibalize the c200 level market some, but it's already being cannibalized anyways by regular cameras.

I'm not super knowledgeable on the subject, not a little in part because I really don't care about video. However, other than ergonomics and form factor, aren't smaller sensors generally more desirable for "cheap" camcorders? My understanding is that with video, generally, it's desirable to have most of the frame as much in focus as possible, and that's easier to accomplish with wider FL's on small sensors, especially when it's a single guy running around a wedding with a camcorder who can't properly light whatever it is they want to record.

It seems to me that what a lot of this exploding video market wants is a higher-end consumer camcorder with better quality, interchangeable lenses that costs a fraction of professional quality tools, rather than a DSLR that can take great videos.

Quite a bit of this segment is moving to cameras specifically because they want that level of control for more professional looking videos without spending 5k+ on the existing Canon or Sony systems. Having essentially a 80d in a camcorder body would be exactly what they want and would possibly fill an unmet need.

One example of this is all those out there making skateboarding/biking/extreme sports videos. Sure, a lot of this footage is captured via GoPros, but the ones that get the most views (and thus more money) are the ones that also intersperse that video with segments that look more professional and cinema like complete with focus pulls and the like.

 

[gsealy]

It all depends on the video specs. Those of the 5DIV are underwhelming. Canon has a recent track record of dumbing down cameras unless you want to go to the upper end of the cinema line. I am not having high expectations.