New 50mm & 70-300mm Coming Soon? [CR2]

[Maximilian]

Re: New 50mm & 70-300mm Coming Soon? [CR2]

Please let it be
- ring USM
- at least f1.8 or wider
- IS if possible

Otherwise I'm out

The difference between f/1.8 and f/2 is really that big a deal?

I am hoping for f/1.4, with f/1.8 not good but acceptable. So therefore f/2 would be some difference.
IS less important.
More important: Fast accurate AF.

 

[PhotographerJim]

Re: New 50mm & 70-300mm Coming Soon? [CR2]

I could go for a 50mm L 1.4 w/ ring USM & weather sealing. IS maybe or not. Sub $1200 w/ amazing wide-open performance. Please please please....

 

[Rick]

Re: New 50mm & 70-300mm Coming Soon? [CR2]

Hopefully, the 50 will be better optimized for wide open shooting.

That's certainly not what I want. The current lens is superb across the frame from about f/3.5 onwards; the new one had better be the same. I expect a small improvement in faster IQ, maybe achievable by not making it so fast in the first place, ie an f/1.8 or 2. How about an f/1.7 just for marketing purposes ?

The 50 1.2L is optimised for shooting open, and you are welcome to it.

None of this makes a lick of sense.

You advocate making 50/1.4 lens slower and/or ignoring its one weakness - wide open IQ? You do realize that optimizing the lens' wide open characteristics does not mean making things worse stopped down.

As for the 50/1.2, it is not optimized for wide open shooting, at least not for any modern sense i.e. sharp center plus sharp across the frame.

 

[Marsu42]

Re: New 50mm & 70-300mm Coming Soon? [CR2]

The 50 1.2L is optimised for shooting open, and you are welcome to it.

As for the 50/1.2, it is not optimized for wide open shooting, at least not for any modern sense i.e. sharp center plus sharp across the frame.

Well, there is the focus shift problem...

I am hoping for f/1.4, with f/1.8 not good but acceptable.

Vote here what you think it'll be: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=24892.0

 

[PhotographyFirst]

Re: New 50mm & 70-300mm Coming Soon? [CR2]

For anyone who hasn't been following the STM lineup, here's what Canon has been up to lately. They really need to give the same treatment to the popular zoom ranges for EF lenses. Their STM lenses are in a whole different universe over the competition for the same price bracket. The 55-250 STM on crop smashes the shit out of the 70-300 EF even when mounted on FF. At least for the longer focal range where people want these types of lenses to perform the best.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=358&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=4&API=0&LensComp=856&CameraComp=736&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=5&APIComp=1

 

[Jester237]

Re: New 50mm & 70-300mm Coming Soon? [CR2]

Use our company 50/1.2L and 50/1.4 and don't love it. To be honest, I don't like it. Really want nice 50mm from Canon for few year. 50/1.4 normal lens, but not more. Bad build, not good wide open, just boring Old CZ, Hexanon, Zuiko much more interesting, even F1.7 version (but no AF). Sigma 50/1.4 art nice, but really big, heavy and expensive. And AF problem..
So.
50/2? Common, its not wide angle lens! Who may need it?
50/1.8? Its Yongnuo land now. At least, while Canon make lens as good, as CZ 55/1.8 for Sony.

For me, new 50/1.4 IS with nice build quality, ring USM and sharp wide open most wanted.

 

[PhotographyFirst]

Re: New 50mm & 70-300mm Coming Soon? [CR2]

improvements needed for the 70-300

1. Manual focus override
2. Non Rotating front element
3. Updated 4 stop IS
4. Improved optics. Better than the old 70-300 and Tamron's 70-300 but not as good as the L version.

The problem is that there isn't a whole lot of difference, optically, between the 70-300 IS USM, 70-300 Di VC USD and 70-300L IS USM. And that is the current order of "goodness."

To be better than the Tamron lens, it pretty much has to be as good as the L lens, if not better.

Maybe I'm just being obtuse, but are you guys discussing the same lenses I am looking at here?

The Tamron is no that great. Neither is the 70-300 EF. Both are horrible at 300mm. Sharp as hell in other focal lengths, but 300mm is arguably the most important for people buying a telephoto zoom.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=738&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=4&API=1&LensComp=757&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=4&APIComp=0

 

[Marsu42]

Re: New 50mm & 70-300mm Coming Soon? [CR2]

And comparing it with the 70-300L at 200mm on crop, the STM lens ever appears marginally better when stopped down (to f/8.0)

I agree the L doesn't shine on crop, though tdp seems to have gotten a very mediocre copy (they tested a 2nd version on full frame).

The problem is that there isn't a whole lot of difference, optically, between the 70-300 IS USM, 70-300 Di VC USD and 70-300L IS USM. And that is the current order of "goodness."

Ugh, don't let Ken Rockewell get you. It's also about bokeh and color rendition, and you might want to have a glance at this concerning sharpness: http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=738&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=4&API=1&LensComp=358&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=4&APIComp=0

Btw: This is a picture taken with a non-L lens after some rain or outdoor work, see the difference?

 

[Cet]

Re: New 50mm & 70-300mm Coming Soon? [CR2]

My dream lens as a 50 mm prime would be a pancake with IS and f/1.4... 8)

 

[Matthew Saville]

Re: New 50mm & 70-300mm Coming Soon? [CR2]

Wow, Canon's existing 50mm f/1.4 optical formula is over 30 years old? I didn't know that, that's pretty sad...

Hopefully they don't try and make "the best of both worlds" with a stabilized f/2 version; hopefully they just stick with the traditional 1.4 and 1.8 versions like Nikon did...

 

[Mr_Canuck]

Re: New 50mm & 70-300mm Coming Soon? [CR2]

How will Canon position another 70-300?

With another three letters: "STM"

+1

 

[Mr_Canuck]

Re: New 50mm & 70-300mm Coming Soon? [CR2]

The 50 will be a 1.8/is or 1.4/is and follow the 35, 28, 24 is's. (following the update of the 35/2 leads me to believe 1.4, besides they must still do well with the fisher price 1.8)

 

[sulla]

Re: New 50mm & 70-300mm Coming Soon? [CR2]

I think Canon has one serious problem with the 50 lineup: They can't update the 1.4 before the 1.2 L, because if they update the 1.4 it will be better optically than the 1.2 L, thus killing it.
So the replacement path almost would have to be first the 1.2 L and then the 1.4, or both at the same time.

If we only see one 50, it will be either the 1.2L II or a new f/2 IS (and probably the 1.4 discontinued)...

 

[bereninga]

Re: New 50mm & 70-300mm Coming Soon? [CR2]

Canon will (and should) stick to 1.4 for the 50mm. The 24mm, 28mm and 35mm refreshes all stuck w/ the same aperture. Just seems more consistent.

 

[Sporgon]

Re: New 50mm & 70-300mm Coming Soon? [CR2]

Hopefully, the 50 will be better optimized for wide open shooting.

That's certainly not what I want. The current lens is superb across the frame from about f/3.5 onwards; the new one had better be the same. I expect a small improvement in faster IQ, maybe achievable by not making it so fast in the first place, ie an f/1.8 or 2. How about an f/1.7 just for marketing purposes ?

The 50 1.2L is optimised for shooting open, and you are welcome to it.

None of this makes a lick of sense.

You advocate making 50/1.4 lens slower and/or ignoring its one weakness - wide open IQ? You do realize that optimizing the lens' wide open characteristics does not mean making things worse stopped down.

As for the 50/1.2, it is not optimized for wide open shooting, at least not for any modern sense i.e. sharp center plus sharp across the frame.

Just remind me which lenses are optimised for use wide open.

 

[rfdesigner]

Re: New 50mm & 70-300mm Coming Soon? [CR2]

So long as its:

A: still f1.something.. ideally f1.6 or better
B: decent optical quality wide open (not necessarily perfect, just not badly soft)
C: ringUSM
D: otherwise built to similar mechanical standards as my 100f2.0

then it's a buy

If it's got IS then purchase will be delayed as the price will be that much higher, and frankly I don't want it.. more cost and more to go wrong and it won't help with what I want it for.

 

[Joey]

Re: New 50mm & 70-300mm Coming Soon? [CR2]

@Liv_Img: If you compare the FD 1.4, "new FD 1.4" and the EF 1.4 they have the exact same design, # elements, minimum focus distance, cost, etc.

http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/lens/nfd/data/50-100/nfd_50_14.html?p=2 (1979)

http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/lens/ef/data/standard/ef_50_14_usm.html?p=2

http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/lens/fd/data/50-85/fd_50_14_sscv2.html (1973)

So while the EF may be newer, I'm betting the design and implementation of the optical portion dates back to 1973 or even earlier. Of course, I could be totally wrong... Short of a magic coating or special element of glass improvement ... would be interesting to compare side by side shots from each. Spec-wise, I'll bet on "At least 41.5 year old optical formula"

The lens can't be over 30 years old - that makes the year at least it was made before 1984 during the era of FD lenses. EF was born 1987.

The 50mm f:1.4 was born in 1993, 22 years ago:
http://www.canon.com/camera-museum/lens/ef/data/standard/ef_50_14_usm.html

[/quote]
I'm old enough to remember the launch of the EOS range and EF lenses. I'm pretty sure at the time it was announced that the 50mm f/1.4 was the same optical design as the 'New FD' manual focus lens, but with autofocus and electronic control - and that was seen as a good thing, because the FD f/1.4 50mm was a class-leading lens at the time. I stil have one. So according to the Canon Museum the EF lens was released in 1993, but it was optically the same as the FD lens which goes back to the 1970's - the original FD lens to 1971 and the New FD lens (the only change was the lens mount) to 1979.

 

[Marsu42]

Re: New 50mm & 70-300mm Coming Soon? [CR2]

So according to the Canon Museum the EF lens was released in 1993, but it was optically the same as the FD lens which goes back to the 1970's - the original FD lens to 1971 and the New FD lens (the only change was the lens mount) to 1979.

http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/canon/fdresources/fdlenses/50mm.htm

I think Canon has one serious problem with the 50 lineup: They can't update the 1.4 before the 1.2 L, because if they update the 1.4 it will be better optically than the 1.2 L, thus killing it.

I don't think so, that's the beauty of their business model: People will keep buying their "premium" model even though by technical specs or usage scenario, there often is hardly any reason to do so. Look at the price of the old 50mm f1.0... they'll just keep the f1.2 as "red ring" and an updated f1.4 as "golden ring", problem solved.

 

[Cet]

Re: New 50mm & 70-300mm Coming Soon? [CR2]

@Joey, so the lens design of the 50/1.4 is about 44 years old? To me this is quite shocking considering the technical progress in other areas like computing and film/sensor resolution. I assumed that the progress in computing would lead to a new (better, more sophisticated) calculation of the lens optics, especially as the resolution of the new digital sensors are so much higher compared to film. No wonder that primes are soft wide open. At that time maybe it did not matter that much but nowadays it does thanks to higher resolution and cropping capabilities of high pixel sensors.

 

[Sporgon]

Re: New 50mm & 70-300mm Coming Soon? [CR2]

The current EF 50/1.4 uses an aspherical element and two high refractive elements, as well as the modern coating. I'm not sure that is identical to thirty years ago, though the optical formula may be the same.

Makes me wonder if this lens has been the subject of stealth up grades over the years. Anyone know for sure ?