New 7D Mark II - Difficulty with Sharp Photos

[KfirGuy]

Good evening,

I was hoping to maybe get some thoughts/input from the group. I recently became the owner of a Canon-refurbished 7D Mark II, as what seemed like a deserving replacement to my 6 year old and well used 7D. Took it out today and the results were ... well somewhat alarming. With my 7D, I never questioned whether images would be sharp, notwithstanding atmospheric conditions or horrendous panning by me. However the F8.0, 1/800 sunny stuff was always a slam dunk. Not so with the 7DII today. I would say maybe 5% of the overall images were on part with my 7D's usual performance, despite using the same glass, etc. I am also talking about images being WAY out of focus, soft, blurry, etc. I have some examples below. Anyone have thoughts on what may be driving this?

I shoot aircraft primarily, and this type of airliner photography is the easiest stuff (relatively slow, predictable paths, etc). I was somewhat taken aback to have such disparate results between the 7D and 7DII... however I can only assume it is something wrong with my set-up?

AF: Servo
AF Points: Large Zone AF (central zone selected)
Case 2
Focus Priority


First up is a photo from the same place, same lens on my old 7D. Next up are a pair of examples from the 7DII... which are far from the worse.

7D1 by Nicholas Peterman, on Flickr

7D2 by Nicholas Peterman, on Flickr

7D2ii by Nicholas Peterman, on Flickr

7DIII by Nicholas Peterman, on Flickr


I'd appreciate any thoughts y'all may have. After spending money on a new body, I shudder to think I may now have a serious problem with softness ahead of me

 

[neuroanatomist]

The first thing I'll ask is: have you tried AF microadjustment?

 

[KfirGuy]

The first thing I'll ask is: have you tried AF microadjustment?

That was where I was going next... although with these results I wonder if the term macro adjustment might be more in order.

Are there any micro adjust methods you recommend? I know when I’ve dealt with it before, it involved a tripod, single shot AF reset to infinity before each frame, 50 times your focal length from the target (or something like that) and done at your highest focal length (although I see the 7DII seems to be able to accept adjustments at both ends of the focal length spectrum for my 100-400 MK 1)

 

[Talys]

The first thing I'll ask is: have you tried AF microadjustment?

That was where I was going next... although with these results I wonder if the term macro adjustment might be more in order.

Are there any micro adjust methods you recommend? I know when I’ve dealt with it before, it involved a tripod, single shot AF reset to infinity before each frame, 50 times your focal length from the target (or something like that) and done at your highest focal length (although I see the 7DII seems to be able to accept adjustments at both ends of the focal length spectrum for my 100-400 MK 1)

Reikan FoCal is super easy to do and produces good results, IMO. However, for 7DII I don't think there's fully automated mode, meaning that you need to defocus your lens for each try instead of just hitting a button and coming back after a few minutes. I could be wrong.

Spyder LensCal works well, and is what I used for years. And, there are cheap knockoffs that essentially do the same thing. However, the LensCal folds up and mounts on a light stand, which is nice for calibrating at a distance. Plus, it's sturdy and the prop-up scale sits at 45 degrees.

And then, Dot Tune, is popular, but it's never been my thing.

 

[rpt]

The first thing I'll ask is: have you tried AF microadjustment?

That was where I was going next... although with these results I wonder if the term macro adjustment might be more in order.

Are there any micro adjust methods you recommend? I know when I’ve dealt with it before, it involved a tripod, single shot AF reset to infinity before each frame, 50 times your focal length from the target (or something like that) and done at your highest focal length (although I see the 7DII seems to be able to accept adjustments at both ends of the focal length spectrum for my 100-400 MK 1)

Reikan FoCal is super easy to do and produces good results, IMO. However, for 7DII I don't think there's fully automated mode, meaning that you need to defocus your lens for each try instead of just hitting a button and coming back after a few minutes. I could be wrong.

Spyder LensCal works well, and is what I used for years. And, there are cheap knockoffs that essentially do the same thing. However, the LensCal folds up and mounts on a light stand, which is nice for calibrating at a distance. Plus, it's sturdy and the prop-up scale sits at 45 degrees.

And then, Dot Tune, is popular, but it's never been my thing.

+1 for FoCal. Neuro suggested it and AFMA has been a breeze ever since. I use it for both my 5D3 and 7D2. You won’t regret it.

 

[KfirGuy]

Thank you both. I think I’ll give it a go. Hopefully it can sort out the issues and get everything nominal. I’m still a bit staggered by the magnitude of the mis-adjustment if you will, none of my bodies have ever been as out of whack with my lenses.

 

[neuroanatomist]

Let us know how it works out. If you're close to an end of the range for multiple lenses, it might be worth contacting Canon.

 

[Valvebounce]

Hi Talys.
You are correct that FoCal doesn't have a fully automatic mode, but the only thing you have to do is input the adjustments, +20 +10 +5 etc. It will drive the lens and do all the defocusing etc, it is a bit harder than the fully automatic mode but it will audibly notify you it is ready if I remember correctly.

Cheers, Graham.

The first thing I'll ask is: have you tried AF microadjustment?

That was where I was going next... although with these results I wonder if the term macro adjustment might be more in order.

Are there any micro adjust methods you recommend? I know when I’ve dealt with it before, it involved a tripod, single shot AF reset to infinity before each frame, 50 times your focal length from the target (or something like that) and done at your highest focal length (although I see the 7DII seems to be able to accept adjustments at both ends of the focal length spectrum for my 100-400 MK 1)

Reikan FoCal is super easy to do and produces good results, IMO. However, for 7DII I don't think there's fully automated mode, meaning that you need to defocus your lens for each try instead of just hitting a button and coming back after a few minutes. I could be wrong.

Spyder LensCal works well, and is what I used for years. And, there are cheap knockoffs that essentially do the same thing. However, the LensCal folds up and mounts on a light stand, which is nice for calibrating at a distance. Plus, it's sturdy and the prop-up scale sits at 45 degrees.

And then, Dot Tune, is popular, but it's never been my thing.

 

[KfirGuy]

Thank you all, I will definitely try to get to work on doing a Microadjust.

 

[Don Haines]

When I got my 7D2, I set up the AF cases wrong.... it caused great frustration until I figured out my mistake(s)

 

[unfocused]

I hate to go against the flow, but I am not so sure micro-adjustment is the problem. I would expect that if the micro-adjustment were off, there should be some sharpness somewhere, rather than the overall lack of crispness.

Before spending money and time on micro-adjustment, I would first test out the lens/camera combination on a stationary subject to verify that the camera and lens can give you a sharp image.

Basically, what I'm suggesting is that you determine if the new 7DII can give a sharp image under any circumstance. Shoot something with text on it, in good light and at a reasonable shutter speed and aperture with IS turned on. You need to establish the base. If it gives you sharp images at say f8, but not at f2.8 then micro-focus could be your problem. But if you get fuzzy images at f8, it's probably something else.

The 7DII is a great camera, and I've never had any problems with it, but not every individual camera is going to be perfect. You may determine that there is something wrong with your particular camera and you need to send it back to Canon.

 

[Mikehit]

are those photos 100% crops? if so then consider that the 7D2 has more pixels so the image will be bigger.
Also in the last image the engine is more in focus than the cockpit which suggests a focussing accuracy. Using moving subjects to decide if a camera can provide sharp images is fraught with potential errors.
Also, lighting conditions (brightness, contrast) can all affect focus accuracy.

First - put the camera on a tripos (or solid surface) and focus manually with live view and manual focus. That will show the sharpness the optics/sensor chain are capable of
The try it with single point AF - if the firs shows the optics are OK, then this will show if the AF is working as well as it could
If that works OK then start with focus tracking. If it does not work OK then start with things like micro adjust.

 

[AlanF]

are those photos 100% crops? if so then consider that the 7D2 has more pixels so the image will be bigger.
Also in the last image the engine is more in focus than the cockpit which suggests a focussing accuracy. Using moving subjects to decide if a camera can provide sharp images is fraught with potential errors.
Also, lighting conditions (brightness, contrast) can all affect focus accuracy.

First - put the camera on a tripos (or solid surface) and focus manually with live view and manual focus. That will show the sharpness the optics/sensor chain are capable of
The try it with single point AF - if the firs shows the optics are OK, then this will show if the AF is working as well as it could
If that works OK then start with focus tracking. If it does not work OK then start with things like micro adjust.

Mike has hit it on the head. Take photos in liveview of a static object and see if it is in focus before indulging in AFMA.

 

[Camerasheik]

Hi, I might have some good news for you. I think you made a mistake very many new 7D2 owners make, me included.

If you select one of the three expanded zones the camera will focus on the object (not necessarily the thing you are looking at) nearest to the camera.

So if you zoom out and look at your entire image you may well find something else (tree, fence post, seagull etc) in shot that is perfectly sharp.

Take a look here: http://learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2014/eos7dmk2_afGuidebook.shtml

The Mk 2 is a LOT more capable than the Mk1, but that comes at the cost of complexity.

 

[KfirGuy]

Hmmm, that is an interesting point. I took it out of that mode, switched from servo to single shot, and threw it on a tripod as a little experiment using what printed document I had handy, which was a newspaper page. I was actually remarkably impressed by how much better it was, especially given that a series of servo photos taken of static objects earlier in the day had been as soft as my previous shots. Additionally, the body proved to be perfectly sharp with my 24-105, which is good at least.

046A9856 by Nicholas Peterman, on Flickr

7D Newspaper by Nicholas Peterman, on Flickr

 

[unfocused]

...I think you made a mistake very many new 7D2 owners make, me included...

...the camera will focus on the object (not necessarily the thing you are looking at) nearest to the camera...

...The Mk 2 is a LOT more capable than the Mk1, but that comes at the cost of complexity...

Hmmm, that is an interesting point. I took it out of that mode, switched from servo to single shot, and threw it on a tripod as a little experiment using what printed document I had handy, which was a newspaper page. I was actually remarkably impressed by how much better it was, especially given that a series of servo photos taken of static objects earlier in the day had been as soft as my previous shots. Additionally, the body proved to be perfectly sharp with my 24-105, which is good at least.

It if is any consolation, this is a problem not only with the 7DII but with all the high-end Canon focus systems -- including the 5D and 1D. As someone who shoots a lot of sports, I have found that I often get the best results with single point or possibly one of the more conservative point expansion modes. In fact, I've read articles from top Canon professional sports photographers who admit they shoot mostly in single point mode.

I've had the 7DII for more than two years, the 1DX II for a year and a half and I'd say I'm still trying to master the focusing system -- although I am a slow learner.

 

[Macoose]

Kfirguy,

I upgraded to the 7D2 from the 40D so the learning curve for the AF system was rather steep for me. Since you're coming up from the 7D, you are familiar with Zone AF.
I will agree with Camerasheik that you should read the AF Guide. It helped me a lot. Also, become familiar with the cases. They do help. I only wish that Canon would have listed which Case works for Rodeos and Drag Racing. Either way, If I can figure it out you will too.

You can also select which AF point the camera will start with in 65pt AF. Initial or Manual. (p127 in the manual)

Good Luck!

 

[KfirGuy]

I appreciate all the advice and encouragement guys. I had an opportunity to shoot something this afternoon that was a one-time deal, and sadly all I had was the new 7DII with me. The photos came out pretty poor, despite all the reading and fiddling with the settings I had done. So that is a bit of a bummer :'( I'll get the hang of it at some point... I hope.

 

[Steve Dmark2]

When I got my 7D2, I set up the AF cases wrong.... it caused great frustration until I figured out my mistake(s)

Same for me. Ever since I get a very good keeper rate.

Cheers
Stefan

 

[Valvebounce]

Hi KfirGuy.
Try a quick test, put a mark on a brick wall put the camera on a tripod then focus on the mark at an angle of between 30 and 45 degrees, this should enable you to see if there is some sharp area of wall in the shot and where abouts it is in relation to the focus point.
Also when the 7DII came out there was quite a fuss about tilted sensors or something like that which was causing soft shots.

Cheers , Graham.

I appreciate all the advice and encouragement guys. I had an opportunity to shoot something this afternoon that was a one-time deal, and sadly all I had was the new 7DII with me. The photos came out pretty poor, despite all the reading and fiddling with the settings I had done. So that is a bit of a bummer :'( I'll get the hang of it at some point... I hope.