New diffractive optics super telephoto lenses on the way, with a new twist….. [CR1]

#41
I suspect that ultimately, this will be a game of dollars.

If Canon keeps selling DSLRs to their pro sports crowd photographers and that group doesn't transition to mirrorless, or if RF supertelephotos simply don't sell well, Canon will release fewer super telephotos in RF.
I thought one of the advantages of mirrorless is a higher FPS rate, which is exactly suited to pro sports photographers. For this reason alone I could see a 1DR for the sports crowd.
 
Jan 15, 2014
254
1
Zürich, Switzerland
#42
That's one CR1 I don't really believe.

I certainly believe that these new lenses would come for both EF and RF mounts. As far as I understand (which is admittedly not much) it wouldn't be technologically difficult at all for this type of telephoto lenses, just change the body of the lens a bit, built-in RF adapter basically.

But no EF mount? Seems very dubious. Even if it's for 2020, and even with hypothetical new R bodies released by then, there will still be a lot of EF users out there, and perhaps even more so in the pool of potential customers for such expensive lenses. No way they'd cut themselves out of that target.
 
Likes: tron
Nov 8, 2011
3,792
159
#43
Once more CR guy managed to create a lot of controversy which equals to a lot of hits :)

Now we just have to wait for one to two years to see what will happen :D

But no complaints it's a rumors site after all ... with a few really good threads about ... birds ... and a few (or more) good guys who offer really good and honest advice.
This is what I like most in this forum.
 
Dec 17, 2013
1,295
14
#45
So how good is the electronic viewfinder on the R? That would seem to be one important consideration for action photographers. Another major consideration is camera build quality. Action photographers (at least the pros) prefer water-resistant tanks. And why isn't 14 per second good enough for 99% of non-scientific uses involving high quality still photos?

A serious consideration is whether the video world will welcome a transition away from EF. People don't seem to realize that EF mount lenses (by Canon, Zeiss, etc) are a substantial part of the video lens market. I have no idea how often people use 600 mm lenses for 4K or 8K video.

I have no dog in this fight. I am not buying a USD $13,000.00 lens, and I don't expect that the EF mount cameras are going to disappear fast. When one has a lot invested in Canon EF lenses, why on earth would one want to switch? It's one thing if your kit is a 80D or a 6D original and a 24-105 mm f/4 lens and a 50 mm f/1.8 lens. It's entirely another thing if one has the triple threat f/2.8 zoom set or a few TS-E lenses. I am somewhere in the middle. I like the ergonomics of the DSLR. I need to get better at using what I have (though I can always be tempted by another macro lens). Pros especially are not keen to change for the sake of change - their question is "will it make me more money?".
 
Jul 31, 2014
58
3
#46
Not sure how I feel, I'm all in on EF at this point and I would like to see the EF 600 DO. I doubt I could afford/justify a new 600 of any flavor anyway. My wife and I only spent $7000 to get engaged and married, I think she'd be a little miffed if I spent more on a lens then I spent on her.
All the evidence points to cheaper weddings leading to longer lasting marriages. The more you spend on lenses instead of your wedding, the more it proves you love her :)
 
Dec 17, 2013
1,295
14
#48
Note that one can add an EF to R adapter onto an EF lens, but a non-optical (no glass elements) R to EF adapter is impossible, due to flange to sensor distance being shorter in mirrorless cameras than in DSLRs. As I understand it, the optical (lens-containing) adapters on the market aren't very good for high quality photography.
 
Nov 1, 2012
1,209
6
#49
I thought one of the advantages of mirrorless is a higher FPS rate, which is exactly suited to pro sports photographers. For this reason alone I could see a 1DR for the sports crowd.
I'm 1DX sports-hobbyist and while I'd welcome less weight to carry around 6-10h on the field, I don't accept sacrifices. For me 1DR needs to have:
-AF comparable to 1DX including dim-ish gym lighting (my typical settings is ISO6400 1/500 F2.8)
-fairly sizable body (for proper gripping, although this would contradict with the weight reduction)

Everything else is minor wishlist like super high fps, dual card slots, battery life >4h.
 
Jul 26, 2011
941
84
#50
Yeah...not buying this rumor. At most Canon will introduce new super teles in both mounts.

As for the "mirror is dead" crowd, a daily reminder: DSLRs continue to out sell MILCs by a wide margin every where except Japan. And in Japan they're mainly buying Olympus m43 and EOS M's, not FF.

Mirrorless still has a ways to go to convince the buying public.
 

Talys

Canon 6DII
Feb 16, 2017
1,959
214
Vancouver, BC
#51
I thought one of the advantages of mirrorless is a higher FPS rate, which is exactly suited to pro sports photographers. For this reason alone I could see a 1DR for the sports crowd.
I've never heard of a professional sports photographer (or, really, any photographer) complain about 14fps being insufficient to capture the magical moment. You hit a point of diminishing returns, where even if mirrorless doubled it to 28 frames per second, would anyone really care? Would it do anything other than generate twice as many photos to cull? It's kind of like the RAW buffer on the 1DXII at 270. If it were at 500, would anyone care?
 

Talys

Canon 6DII
Feb 16, 2017
1,959
214
Vancouver, BC
#52
Yeah...not buying this rumor. At most Canon will introduce new super teles in both mounts.

As for the "mirror is dead" crowd, a daily reminder: DSLRs continue to out sell MILCs by a wide margin every where except Japan. And in Japan they're mainly buying Olympus m43 and EOS M's, not FF.

Mirrorless still has a ways to go to convince the buying public.
But introducing facts into the conversation just spoils all the fun :D

I think the next 6-12 months are a critical juncture for Mirrorless full frame. Either Canon and Nikon FF MILCs will sell like hotcakes and mirrorless will really take off, at least for the mid-market -- or it won't. The best case for FF MILC would be if FF DSLR sales diminished somewhat while MILC sales rocketed. I think the EOS R is a pretty compelling camera and at its price point, has the best chance to make this happen of the three lower-end FF MILCs.

On the other hand, the worst case for FF MILCs would be if, like APSC, FF DLSR sales still handily outsold MILCs despite new and exciting products, and Canon/Nikon MILC sales basically stole from Sony MILC sales. I mean, obviously, it's possible that EOS R and Z6/Z7 are total flops on the market, and that would be an even worse outcome for MILC FF, but I don't think that's a very probable result.
 

Del Paso

M3 Singlestroke
Aug 9, 2018
117
99
#53
Whether we favor mirrorless over DSLR or not, fact is that if Canon wants to compete with Sony, they need "native" super tele lenses, or, to put it differently, a full line of EOS R lenses.
I think this has already started with with what could be the world's best standard zoom (2/28-70) and the 1,2/50 mm, maybe the DO superteles will follow....
 
Jul 31, 2018
297
110
#54
The best case for FF MILC would be if FF DSLR sales diminished somewhat while MILC sales rocketed. I think the EOS R is a pretty compelling camera and at its price point, has the best chance to make this happen of the three lower-end FF MILCs.
i don't see what Canon EOS R has over Nikon Z6 (overall at least as capable, less expensive) or Z7 (more capable, more expensive) or Sony A7 III (more capable, less expensive) ? Except for existing Canon users with glass.

Adoption of mirrorfree FF is solely a function of supply. While supply has improved dramatically now - as finally ! there are mirrorfree FF products from 5 brands - there are many caveats, especially when it comes to price/value, that have negative impacts on transition speed:
* sony a7 iii - good price value for body, not for lens lineup (FE glass way more expensive than Canon EF and Nikon F lenses) plus still some ergonomics/UI issues
* Canon EOS R - not a mirrorfree 5D V or at least 5D4 equivalent, but only a mirrorfree 6D III at a 40% higher price than 6D-class mirrorslappers and 25% higher than competitors (Z6, A73)
* Nikon Z6 - about equivalent to D750, but 40% more expensive / Z7 - less capable than a D850, but same high price

IF camera makers would pass on at least some of the cost savings they make with highly automated mirrorfree camera production compared to traditional, labour-intensive mirrorslappers .. and had priced A73, EOS R, Z6 commensurate with what they really are: "entry level mirrorfree FF cameras" ... around canon 6D / Nikon D610 class ... around USD/€ 1500 mark ... transition would happen very, very rapidly.

but even with the makers trying to use mirrorfree FF as another opportunity for their typical, excessive (oligopolist) profit making, mirrorslapping will come to its end soon (enough). for mainstream FF products within 2 years. even when a 1D/D5 class slapper may be for sale another few years.

everything else with mirror a-slapping may see one last, final iteration and that was it.

in Canon terms:
5D5 - probably, 5D6 - no way.
6D3 - maybe, 6D4 - no way.
90D - probably, 91D - no way.
7D3 - surely, 7D4 - dont think so.
:)
 
Last edited:
Jul 26, 2011
941
84
#55
i don't see what Canon EOS R has over Nikon Z6 (overall at least as capable, less expensive) or Z7 (more capable, more expensive) or Sony A7 III (more capable, less expensive) ? Except for existing Canon users with glass.
Canon glass is what it has over them whether you have existing glass or not. That and ergonomics + DPAF.

IF camera makers would pass on at least some of the cost savings they make with highly automated mirrorfree camera production compared to traditional, labour-intensive mirrorslappers ..
Is this more than a meme? Anyone have actual numbers? The bottom end of the 35mm film SLR market, before digital took over, would seem to prove that an SLR is not expensive to manufacture. Heck, some of those bodies may have been cheaper than an EVF all by itself.

mirrorslapping will come to its end soon (enough). for mainstream FF products within 2 years.
You've never looked at CIPA sales reports, have you? :)
 
Jul 31, 2018
297
110
#56
You've never looked at CIPA sales reports, have you? :)
I know CIPA numbers quite well. in short: sometimes past / current numbers are no good prediction of future. :)

longer: demand for capable, FF-sensored, intuitive, smaller, lighter, vibration-free, noise-free, moving-mechanical parts-free, less expensive, mirror-free vcameras is there. Supply side is the problem. Demand still only partially met. :)
 

Sean C

I'm New Here
Apr 21, 2015
18
2
#57
(having fun with speculation since we're here on the rumors site)

Sony essentially abandoned mirrored bodies/lenses.
Canon completely abandoned FD for EF.

If these rumors have merit, will they discourage photographers from any investment in EF glass for fear of an near FD situation? aka What will the result of the uncertainty about future EF bodies be? The RF mount is vendor locked (at least for now). Whether adapters work on new RF bodies, and how well is up to them. I only have to move a lens from a 1D body to a 5D or 7D and compare focus speed to see they do alter lens performance to product differentiate bodies. Will they artificially restrict future EF in some way to incentivize RF adoption? (AF speed, lens tech/coatings only on RF/memory card or processor updates/delay body release cycle so EF is always a gen behind - whichever)

Aka - Canon hasn't announced their intentions going forward. How will that uncertainty affect us?
 
Jul 31, 2018
297
110
#59
Aka - Canon hasn't announced their intentions going forward. How will that uncertainty affect us?
Luckily and nicely it affects Canon much more than us (potential) customers. :)

Myself and many others are holding off buying EF. And we will also wait before buying R/RF until things become clearer ... and street prices fall.
The longer Canon takes, the later they will do business with folks like me and the higher is their risk that we shop elsewhere.
It would be in Canon's best interest to clarify their product strategy and publish a [fairly specific] road map for upcoming EOS R cameras and RF lenses.
:)
 
Last edited:
Jul 22, 2010
891
56
#60
Must buy Canon camera. EF lens I buy adapter + Sony body.
Again, I can’t see many 1D series users being satisfied with the EOS R, so either Canon are condemning the 600 DO to poor sales, or they are planning to release an “EOS R Pro” around the same time.

Regarding your “adapter + Sony body” comment, at first I dismissed this as internet conspiracy talk, but then I remembered the fuss about RF not being adaptable to EOS M and the thought struck me that perhaps it was a conscious decision made by Canon, but it was actually to ensure that RF lenses are incompatible with Sony FE mount.... Wow, now I’m starting internet conspiracy theories! o_O