New DSLR Series Coming in 2018? [CR1]

[Sator]

Since we are all in wild speculation mode, I might as well throw my 5 yen worth in too.

Ages ago, Egami found a Canon patent for a SLT system. Canon wouldn't call it that, they would call it a pellicle mirror camera. I do wonder if there are limitations to how fast you can get a reflex mirror to flip up and down. At a certain point, it would make more sense to have a digital Pellix with an electronic viewfinder (the analogue viewfinders on film Pellix models were really dim). It's been a while since Canon has had a Pellix model out, and perhaps now is the time for it.



The other possibility is that of a high resolution model above the 5DsR II, with a 120MP stacked sensor. My understanding was that once you go past a certain resolution, sensors need to be made with a stack design.

 

[Talys]

My vote is for a high megapixel, 4k video APS-C.

 

[ahsanford]

Since we are all in wild speculation mode, I might as well throw my 5 yen worth in too.

Ages ago, Egami found a Canon patent for a SLT system. Canon wouldn't call it that, they would call it a pellicle mirror camera. I do wonder if there are limitations to how fast you can get a reflex mirror to flip up and down. At a certain point, it would make more sense to have a digital Pellix with an electronic viewfinder (the analogue viewfinders on film Pellix models were really dim). It's been a while since Canon has had a Pellix model out, and perhaps now is the time for it.

Pellicle set ups do pull the mirror out of any potential high framerate bottlenecks, but they also steal some light from the sensor, on the order of 2/3 of a stop if I read correctly. There is no free lunch.

- A

 

[Mikehit]

The presented APS-H prototype sensors with 120 and 250 Megapixels will most probably end up in the 5Ds Mark II und III.

No. A 5Ds where the 11-24/4L becomes equivalent to 14mm on the wide end? No. There won't be any more commercial APS-H bodies.

It's also 1.3x zoom for birders. This + limitless crop = why not?

So why not just make a 1Dx model with more MP - same thing given that you will use the same lenses on either. The APS-H was a hybrid born of necessity in manufacturing. My guess is that fabrication has improved so much that the cost differential between APS-H and FF is low enough to not offset the cost of 2 different manufacturing lines

 

[Mikehit]

Pellicle set ups do pull the mirror out of any potential high framerate bottlenecks, but they also steal some light from the sensor, on the order of 2/3 of a stop if I read correctly. There is no free lunch.

- A

Do they also steal light from the metering sensor? If so that would impact AF performance quite a bit.

 

[AvTvM]

yes, yes, yes, Canon! Extremely innovative, as always! Bring it on! More mirrorslappers! Absolutely and urgently needed!

FF mirrorless? No need. Nobody wants to buy any ... just forget it! 10 years after Sony and 3 years after Nikon have launched theirs ... will be more than soon enough ... at least for most CR denizens ... if they are still alive.

 

[jeffa4444]

Canon have made the front end of the C700 modular to accept upgrades. When we quizzed them at the launch of the camera they didn't try to deny that they would make a Vistavision (24x36mm approx.) sensor like Red and now Sony has done with the announcement of the Venice. Arri are certainly working on a 6K replacement with Vistavision in mind for the Alexa.
So Canon could use the same sensor they could put into a full-frame C700 in a DSLR it would make sense to use the sensor in more than one camera and leapfrog the naysayers complaining about there 4K offerings. Hell it could even be 8K (oversampling being the common application of 8K Red cameras).
One issue is the failure rate of CFast cards they are not reliable in high data rate video cameras and fail often in the Alexa Mini and Amira so Canon need to chose media carefully.

 

[neuroanatomist]

• EOS-1D Xs - A high megapixel pro series body. Since the amalgamation of the 1D line back in 2009, we’ve always wondered if we’d get a camera like this to truly replace the EOS-1Ds Mark III.

This one would get my $$$$.

But will this happen? Will it not obsolete 1dx2 with it's launch? If it does not, will it be much better than 5dSR?

I doubt it will happen. If it did, it would be differentiated from the 1D X II by frame rate and cost. The 1-series is better than the 5-series in many ways (that are important to me, personally).

 

[sanj]

• EOS-1D Xs - A high megapixel pro series body. Since the amalgamation of the 1D line back in 2009, we’ve always wondered if we’d get a camera like this to truly replace the EOS-1Ds Mark III.

This one would get my $$$$.

But will this happen? Will it not obsolete 1dx2 with it's launch? If it does not, will it be much better than 5dSR?

I doubt it will happen. If it did, it would be differentiated from the 1D X II by frame rate and cost. The 1-series is better than the 5-series in many ways (that are important to me, personally).

I doubt too. Slower 1dx2 with high megapixels at hight cost would not make much sense to me, I would just get the next version of 5dSR which should not be too far off now. Perhaps as far as this rumoured camera is.

 

[snoke]

I doubt it will happen. If it did, it would be differentiated from the 1D X II by frame rate and cost. The 1-series is better than the 5-series in many ways (that are important to me, personally).

Canon 1Ds + Zeiss give color and contrast to beat all other.

Can't say why. Rent camera and lens, then you see.

 

[RGF]

• EOS-1D Xs - A high megapixel pro series body. Since the amalgamation of the 1D line back in 2009, we’ve always wondered if we’d get a camera like this to truly replace the EOS-1Ds Mark III.

This one would get my $$$$.

D850 in 1Dx skin? Will Canon be able to match FPS and DR of the D850? Sure they can top MP, but what about other attributes that make the camera usable.

I need more than just high MP. Reasonable FPS (not blazing fast), good DR, ..

 

[traveller]

• EOS-1D Xs - A high megapixel pro series body. Since the amalgamation of the 1D line back in 2009, we’ve always wondered if we’d get a camera like this to truly replace the EOS-1Ds Mark III.

This one would get my $$$$.

But will this happen? Will it not obsolete 1dx2 with it's launch? If it does not, will it be much better than 5dSR?

I doubt it will happen. If it did, it would be differentiated from the 1D X II by frame rate and cost. The 1-series is better than the 5-series in many ways (that are important to me, personally).

I'd have to agree. Right now, a 1D Xs would be awkward to place in the lineup. If it was the only high megapixel body, it would put a lot of people off Canon (in the same way that Nikon did with the D3X vs 5D2 and A900) because of cost and weight issues. If the 1D Xs was released alongside a 5DSII, how would it be differentiated? Canon struggled to do this with the 1Ds3 vs the 5D2, which is probably one reason why they discontinued the 1Ds series. How would Canon create unique selling points for a 1D Xs versus a 5DSII, without making the latter look inferior to the D850? I suppose it could happen if Canon go for a very high resolution sensor (>80MP?), but would they simply be splitting an ever diminishing market at this extreme?

Edit: the other issue is the falling prices of the bottom end of the medium format market. When the 1Ds3 was released, $8000 looked like a bargain for the resolution, but you can now pick up the GFX 50S for $6500 ( how long before Sony release a 100 MP 44x33 sensor?), or the H6D 50c for $15,000?

 

[bsbeamer]

Since this is CR-1 it is fun to speculate about what this mystery camera might be.

7Dx – Integrated grip 7D with CFast slot, 16 fps, good high ISO performance, full touch-screen, built to 1D standards, basic editing in-camera and intuitive wifi interface.

8D – Lowest-priced full-frame camera on the market. Essentially, a re-packaged 6D retailing for $1,000-1,400 at introduction.

80c - 4K cinema 80D with 80D's flip screen and headphone jack, CFast slot, along with cinema quality feature set (I'm not a video person so don't know what all that would entail.)

Curious what others might suggest.

+1 on the 80C, though Canon might just call it the 90D. In fairness, I am a idiot with video, so I see DPAF + tilty-flippy + touch and say "Let's make a movie!" like some knuckle-headed 80s dad with a camcorder. (I equate enthusiast video tech with 'cinema' and that's clearly a miss. Are real cine folks out there using video AF at all?)

Yes - DPAF, flip screen, and touch screen are all features that are very helpful for cinema work in the right situation. Not every project has a Hollywood budget, but nearly every client expects their project to be treated as such. DPAF is extremely helpful with walking or gimble shots and can be great for documentary style interviews, or sending a producer to record these interviews vs. a true DP.

As for my vote, +1 on the 80C, 90C, 7DC, or 5DC. All could be killer cameras if priced right.

 

[privatebydesign]

Pellicle set ups do pull the mirror out of any potential high framerate bottlenecks, but they also steal some light from the sensor, on the order of 2/3 of a stop if I read correctly. There is no free lunch.

- A

Do they also steal light from the metering sensor? If so that would impact AF performance quite a bit.

No, the AF we already use goes through a 'semi mirrored' section of the main mirror so it would be exactly the same as it is now.

But the idea of the Pellicle is not going to happen unless they come out with a serious breakthrough in mirror technology, they are too fragile and compromised.

 

[Mikehit]

No, the AF we already use goes through a 'semi mirrored' section of the main mirror so it would be exactly the same as it is now.

But the idea of the Pellicle is not going to happen unless they come out with a serious breakthrough in mirror technology, they are too fragile and compromised.

Thanks PBD.
Everything I read about pellicle mirrors suggest it would be a step backwards.

 

[privatebydesign]

No, the AF we already use goes through a 'semi mirrored' section of the main mirror so it would be exactly the same as it is now.

But the idea of the Pellicle is not going to happen unless they come out with a serious breakthrough in mirror technology, they are too fragile and compromised.

Thanks PBD.
Everything I read about pellicle mirrors suggest it would be a step backwards.

Now we truthfully have very impressive ISO performance any light loss really isn't the main drawback. The main issue I see is durability, Pellicle mirrors have to have the mirroring finish on the 'outside' of the glass, this makes them exceptionally sensitive and very difficult to clean.

However if Canon, who have liked the idea several times before, come up with a new type of mirroring that could be switched on and off with an electric charge and that could be within the glass for durability then I could see the tech running. Canon are committed to the EF lens standard and leveraging it is going to make a big difference for this ever talked about FF 'mirrorless'.

Well if you take the view that a FF mirrorless offers a better feature set than slr's then a new tech efficient Pellicle mirror has the potential to truthfully give you the best of both. I have a Honda with a rear view mirror that when you go into reverse has a screen in it that shows the view from a camera, you cannot see the rectangle where the screen is even on the closest inspection until you go into reverse. Imagine having the ability to get real time exposure feedback, a view with zero latency, real time overlay of any desired feature, it would be ground breaking and set the Canon system apart. Sony could never emulate or copy it because their registration distance is too short, Nikon could only come out with a pale imitation several years later that only worked with yet another series of 'F' mount lenses.

But I doubt it will happen......

 

[AvTvM]

(D)SLR with pellicle mirror combines worst of all worlds. For good reason Sony SLTs miserably failed in the market. And Canon RT was no success either.

Good cameras have neither smoke nor MIRRORS.

 

[joemonek]

UPCOMING MODEL SHOULD EOS 1V

 

[ahsanford]

(D)SLR with pellicle mirror combines worst of all worlds. For good reason Sony SLTs miserably failed in the market. And Canon RT was no success either.

Good cameras have neither smoke nor MIRRORS.

SLTs are a tradeoff, not definitively/clearly worse IMHO. Consider: SLT technology delivered an A99-II that pumps out a staggering 42 MP x 12 fps for $3200. I'm guessing that 12 fps would not have been possible in FF at that price point if there was a mirror involved.

So, yes, though I prefer an SLR to an SLT, but let's not conflate A99-II sales (that we can't track that well) to 'SLTs are a waste of time'. It's just one way to skin the cat in building the marketing proposition for a camera.

FWIW, Canon and Nikon are aware of SLT's opportunities to outperform SLR's in some metrics and have opted against them -- my guess is that the stolen light and PBD's delicate surface statements probably have something to do with it.

- A

 

[joemonek]

For the second time in the last couple of months, we’re being told that a new DSLR series will be announced some time in 2018. Neither source could name the series, only that it appeared as a “new DSLR series” in a presentation.</p>
<p>If we’re thinking out loud, I think these would be the obvious candidates.</p>

<ul>
<li>EOS Cinema DSLR
<ul>
<li><em>A cinema DSLR camera to replace the discontinued EOS-1D C. This has been talked about numerous times over the years.</em></li>EOS 1V
</ul>
</li>
<li>EOS-1D Xs
<ul>
<li><em>A high megapixel pro series body. Since the amalgamation of the 1D line back in 2009, we’ve always wondered if we’d get a camera like this to truly replace the EOS-1Ds Mark III. </em></li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>EOS APS-C Cinema DSLR
<ul>
<li><em>A cheaper 4K cinema alternative that would “protect” the Cinema EOS lineup of cameras.</em></li>
</ul>
</li>
</ul>
<p>Hopefully this will bring a bit more information to the surface. For the moment, this is a <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/the-canon-rumors-rating-system-explained/">[CR1]</a> rumor, so please treat it as such.</p>
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