New mid-level DSLR and EOS M5 Mark II the next ILC’s from Canon? [CR1]

Kit.

EOS 6D MK II
Apr 25, 2011
889
370
OK, I'm an engineer and have looked at some sensor designs but I still don't follow your original point...
The physical limit of the DR of the photosensor is the amount of photoelectrons the sensor can store per unit area (which amounts to the exposure the sensor can receive without saturating). In a rolling shutter sensor, you only need one capacitor per pixel. In a global shutter sensor, you need two capacitors of the same capacitance per pixel.
 

c.d.embrey

EOS 7D MK II
Jul 21, 2010
642
3
Just out of curiosity, if you want to use EF-S lenses on an adapter, why do you want a FF camera like th RP? It seems like for that task, the M50 would do just as well.

I keep trying to tell myself that I can be as happy with an M50 as an R, but it's that FF sensor that's the big draw. With EF-S lenses, why pay for it and carry it around?
The M60 is even less a pro camera than the M5. For instance, their is no C1, C2 or C3. The M50 has far fewer AF points. Very poor selection of M lenses. Does the M50 do Focus Bracketing/ Stacking—this is very important to me. FF is no big deal, about the only time I'd use a 1Ds2 or 5D3 was with the 90mm f/2.8 TS-E lens.
 
Reactions: Pape

QuisUtDeus

EOS 80D
Feb 20, 2019
115
80
all the RF lenses (even the 35/1.8, which is huge given how modest its spec is)
It's shorter, narrower, and a third lighter than the Tamron 35/18VC. It's shorter and lighter than the Z 35/1.8 (which lacks any stabilization). It is bigger than the Sony 35/1.8, which also lacks stabilization... and appears to be for crop. It's slightly shorter and lighter (oh and faster...) than the EF 35/2IS. I struggle to understand how it's "huge", unless all other moderns 35s are also "huge".
 
Last edited:
Reactions: pj1974
Mar 19, 2019
2
2
Personally, I'm looking forward to the new M camera. If this system isn't killed off, I'll stick to it for as long as possible. If they do kill it one day, I'll be very annoyed – I've tried the DSLR thing, and don't like it. Tried Fuji, loved the cameras and lenses, but didn't like working with the files. Tried the Eos M5, no complaints (nothing huge anyway).

I don't want or need a full frame system (maybe if I made money from photography, but unfortunately I'm not talented enough to make this a career)

If this system dies, I'll end up giving up on it all and shooting film again. That was fun and I never worry about the next upgrade.
 

Ladislav

EOS RP
Feb 13, 2013
325
41
37
Czech Republic
Mid-level does not sound like anything to replace 7DII. They can merge different product lines but what defines 7DII is its capability to capture action in various weather conditions. That means AF, fps and build (weather sealing and joystick). If they compromise on anything from these, they are not providing any reason to "upgrade" for many current 7DII users. On the other hand, if they don't compromise on them, they are building 7DIII in everything but name.

Imo they should just put the latest APS-C sensor to 7DII, use two latest DIGICs, add touch screen, 4k and release it as a new camera. They can call it whatever they want.

I would be interested in something like 24MP at ~12fps and ~1 stop better high iso than 7DII.
 

jeanluc

EOS 80D
Oct 29, 2012
145
32
The M60 is even less a pro camera than the M5. For instance, their is no C1, C2 or C3. The M50 has far fewer AF points. Very poor selection of M lenses. Does the M50 do Focus Bracketing/ Stacking—this is very important to me. FF is no big deal, about the only time I'd use a 1Ds2 or 5D3 was with the 90mm f/2.8 TS-E lens.
I don’t have an M50, but I have an R and an M5. The performance in terms DR etc on the M5 is very good. Sensor size makes the FF better, but practically for almost all shooting it makes little difference except for low light. In a lot of ways, I like the physical layout of the M5 more....mode dial etc. The M lens I use most is the UWA.....10 or 11-22...very sharp.
 

rrcphoto

EOS 5D MK IV
Jun 20, 2013
2,505
147
I am so excited about the new sensor. Mainly about the megapixel and low light performance.
I also hope its bsi!

i wonder if its really gonna be 24mp, as claimed. 24mp is a good sweetspot for apsc, but im skeptical if it is really going to be 24mp, because a higher mp count usualy is good for marketing.

Sad that the 7diii probably wont come this year, but it was the same with the 7d ii. First came the 70d, which introduced the new sensor, then about 1 year later came the 7d ii.

so it can be projected that we will see the 7d iii at the end of 2020.
just out of curiosity why do you hope it's BSI? BSI by itself does very little for the sensor performance, especially with the relatively large pixels of a 24-26MP APS-C sensor.

I see so many people asking and dreaming about it and it makes me curious to why
 

EduPortas

EOS T7i
Jul 1, 2015
81
35
7D Mark III will be here around September-October. Testers gonna test.

How do I know this?

It will be the exact same timespan between the original 7D and the 7D M2 (five years, almost to the day).

You know, the Kaizen way of thinking for most big Japanese companies and all that.
Don't release something until you're absolutely certain it will
work well and build upon your design-functionality legacy.

Perfect timing for Canon's investors who will be revved up for
a spike in sales just before Tokyo's 2020 Olympics. I expect a slight bump in premium
lens' sales thanks to the new 7D model.
 

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
7,909
1,262
Canada
Mid-level does not sound like anything to replace 7DII. They can merge different product lines but what defines 7DII is its capability to capture action in various weather conditions. That means AF, fps and build (weather sealing and joystick). If they compromise on anything from these, they are not providing any reason to "upgrade" for many current 7DII users. On the other hand, if they don't compromise on them, they are building 7DIII in everything but name.

Imo they should just put the latest APS-C sensor to 7DII, use two latest DIGICs, add touch screen, 4k and release it as a new camera. They can call it whatever they want.

I would be interested in something like 24MP at ~12fps and ~1 stop better high iso than 7DII.
I agree!

I got a 7D2 because I shoot a lot in the winter and outside. I needed a camera that could spend several days out in the freezing cold, could withstand rain, and live through salt spray from the ocean. For me, the ruggedness was the number one factor in my decision criteria
 
Reactions: haggie

SwissFrank

EOS RP
Dec 9, 2018
261
101
I struggle to understand how [the 35/1.8IS Macro] is "huge", unless all other moderns 35s are also "huge".
It's bigger than my Leica 35/1.4 ASPH, and would be much bigger than the earlier 35/1.4 non-ASPH, the 35/2, etc.

You may argue, "but it has IS, which justifies its relatively huge size!" My answer would be, "I didn't say its size was unjustified, I said it was huge."
 
Reactions: c.d.embrey

Cryve

EOS T7i
Jul 4, 2018
97
34
Germany
just out of curiosity why do you hope it's BSI? BSI by itself does very little for the sensor performance, especially with the relatively large pixels of a 24-26MP APS-C sensor.

I see so many people asking and dreaming about it and it makes me curious to why
I didnt know that it has only little effect on aps-c sensors.
I imagined it would make more light reach the sensor and the improvment equating about 1/6 of a stop.


Now you seem more knowledgeable ablout it than i am. what improvements could be expected from bsi?
 

LSXPhotog

EOS RP
Apr 2, 2015
324
132
www.diossiphotography.com
I would love to see the M5 Mark II very soon. Every day I battle with the idea of just getting a refurbished M5 from Canon - I've really grown to adore the M50 for recreational photography and would appreciate the superior manual controls the M5 offers. But it's a little long in the tooth, so buying one new is not a good idea in 2019.

It would also suck to buy an M5 and then the Mark II comes out a few weeks later. Haha

I wish Canon would confirm the status of the 7D line. I made my start in the motorsports world with a 7D and the 7D Mark II with the 1DX Mark II have been a great team. But adding a newer sensor and better autofocus would be a dream come true for me. I personally have no need for two 1DX bodies, so being able to use the $6,000 to spread around with various other bodies has been a much greater asset. I just want a NEW sensor in this thing...it can struggle sometimes and the Autofocus will randomly just stop being accurate for a few shots. Haha
 

CanonFanBoy

EOS 5D MK IV
Jan 28, 2015
3,217
818
Irving, Texas
I didnt know that it has only little effect on aps-c sensors.
I imagined it would make more light reach the sensor and the improvment equating about 1/6 of a stop.


Now you seem more knowledgeable ablout it than i am. what improvements could be expected from bsi?
So, know about a sensor feature (BSI). Know nothing about the feature, but still hope for the feature. Par for the course around here. 1/6 stop (your calculation)? Nothing to write home about. I don't know anything about it either, but 1/6 of a stop wouldn't throw BSI onto my wish list if that's all there is to it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Back-illuminated_sensor
 
Last edited:
Reactions: c.d.embrey

rrcphoto

EOS 5D MK IV
Jun 20, 2013
2,505
147
I didnt know that it has only little effect on aps-c sensors.
I imagined it would make more light reach the sensor and the improvment equating about 1/6 of a stop.


Now you seem more knowledgeable ablout it than i am. what improvements could be expected from bsi?
1/6 to 1/4 EV is pretty negligible when you think about it.
 
Reactions: unfocused

QuisUtDeus

EOS 80D
Feb 20, 2019
115
80
It's bigger than my Leica 35/1.4 ASPH, and would be much bigger than the earlier 35/1.4 non-ASPH, the 35/2, etc.

You may argue, "but it has IS, which justifies its relatively huge size!" My answer would be, "I didn't say its size was unjustified, I said it was huge."
I'd call that unjustified hyperbole, but I can see it's larger than you'd like because it's much more capable. It's not even 19mm longer than your Summilux, which is the dimension that most matters for handling. I struggle to see 19mm as the difference between "huge" and "not-huge". "Medium" and "large" maybe. I also find it doubtful that Canon is focused on winning over Leica users.
 

c.d.embrey

EOS 7D MK II
Jul 21, 2010
642
3
I'd call that unjustified hyperbole, but I can see it's larger than you'd like because it's much more capable. It's not even 19mm longer than your Summilux, which is the dimension that most matters for handling. I struggle to see 19mm as the difference between "huge" and "not-huge". "Medium" and "large" maybe. I also find it doubtful that Canon is focused on winning over Leica users.
If I had a RP I'd use small and light Canon and Leica LTM lenses, with an adapter.
 

transpo1

EOS 7D MK II
Jan 12, 2011
723
74
Yes, I read what he wrote thanks.

Will most people be using MILCs in 5-10 years? We’ll see, it’s certainly a reasonable hypothesis. But, “The DSLR wil be dead in 5 years,” was the prediction by pundits...about 7 years ago. We’re still waiting, and the majority of buyers are still buying DSLRs, not MILCs.
You're wrong on this point, actually. The majority of users are buying smartphones and are not purchasing any dedicated cameras at all.

Coincidentally (not that I am suggesting this is their main selling point but just as a point of interest), what do most smartphones have? 4K video.

I'm really saying that last part just to bug you ;)
 

transpo1

EOS 7D MK II
Jan 12, 2011
723
74
I'm vocally predicting death of SLRs soon (or at least FF), but to be clear I don't have an emotional investment in that. I'm not on "Team Mirrorless." I just haven't heard any possible advantage to SLRs except battery life and especially when you have long viewing times per exposure (wildlife).

So curious, do you have any particular reasons to think "high-end DSLR will hang around for some photography pros for quite some time?"

Also, I think the 5-10 years you mention may be much closer to 5, albeit counting from when there is a pro MILFF, trinity zooms + superwide + portrait available. I think take-up of the RF system hasn't even begun yet. I don't think the FD user base lasted 3 years once EF trinity zooms were out (and 50/1.4, 35/2). In fact not even Nikon lasted 3 years after EF system's initial trinity zooms were out.
Yes, because--

A) Judging by the resistance to change displayed by some on this forum, some of whom I assume must be photography pros, there will be some people who will remain skeptical of smaller, lighter, newer gear. In other words, change is hard and a lot of people are fearful of it.

B) DSLRs just feel like more solid gear, even though this is actually not the case (more moving parts, etc.). But they are generally rugged and heavy and do have a reassuring feel for those that use them. Better ergonomics for those with large hands, etc. (no Trump jokes, please).

C) Perhaps there will be a resurgence (much as there is for 35mm film SLRs these days) and people will start buying used DSLRs on eBay as a novelty. These won't be pros, but could be one reason they hang around.

D) Also, clients tend to sometimes perceive bigger cameras as more professional, even they are incorrect in this day and age to do so.

Anyway, these are a few reasons, maybe none of them good, but I agree with you; once pro MILFF with the corresponding zooms are out and as the ecosystems grow for both Nikon and Canon, things will speed up rapidly.
 
Reactions: SwissFrank

CanonFanBoy

EOS 5D MK IV
Jan 28, 2015
3,217
818
Irving, Texas
You're wrong on this point, actually. The majority of users are buying smartphones and are not purchasing any dedicated cameras at all.

Coincidentally (not that I am suggesting this is their main selling point but just as a point of interest), what do most smartphones have? 4K video.

I'm really saying that last part just to bug you ;)
Yeah, but everybody gets a phone. Everybody needs a phone. Majority of users are buying Smartphones? Not primarily for the cameras they aren't. 4k on a phone? Hmmmm.... and people complain about the crop on FF.
 
Reactions: espressino

Don Haines

Beware of cats with laser eyes!
Jun 4, 2012
7,909
1,262
Canada
D) Also, clients tend to sometimes perceive bigger cameras as more professional, even they are incorrect in this day and age to do so.
I get that one a lot at work. If I bring the Canon it is perceived as a “real” camera, but the Oly is seen as a toy.....

We got the Oly primarily because it is tiny. Even for someone my size (187cm and big boned), at times you want a small unit. Often, it is the right tool for the job. As a pro, one should be using the right tool and not what some marketing campaign is telling the masses.