no 5-axis image stabilization in body

[Sanjay]

no 5-axis image stabilization in body like sony and nikon??? canon should do that in their EOS mirrorless camera
this change might better for canon to launch their respective new RF lens series

 

[Keith_Reeder]

Why should Canon do that?

 

[koenkooi]

Why should Canon do that?

It would help for things like this:

The stabilization in post caused a heavy crop, it would be nice to be able to avoid some of with the help of IBIS. But to be honest, I only use the video function on my Canon cameras twice a year or so.

 

[Kit Lens Jockey]

It was stated in an interview with Canon in this thread that they do not have IBIS right now due to the size, cost, and heat dissipation issues that it causes.

https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/i...rview-with-product-development-manager.35817/

 

[JonSnow]

It was stated in an interview with Canon in this thread that they do not have IBIS right now due to the size, cost, and heat dissipation issues that it causes.

https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/i...rview-with-product-development-manager.35817/

i understand the problems/challenges. but it makes you wonder why others can do it.

it´s not as if all cameras that have IBIS are breaking down, cost a bunch more or overheat.

and if they don´t want to put it into FF cameras, at least put it into the mirrorless APS-C cameras.
olympus showed in 2013 that they can do it.

Why should Canon do that?

for one because it is common consumer request.
you may notice that when you read a bit about new cameras.

 

[BeenThere]

i understand the problems/challenges. but it makes you wonder why others can do it.

it´s not as if all cameras that have IBIS are breaking down, cost a bunch more or overheat.

and i f you dont want to put it into your FF cameras,. at least put it into the APS-C cameras.
olympus showed in 2013 that they can do it.

Are you on hiatus from Game of Thrones.

 

[Kit Lens Jockey]

i understand the problems/challenges. but it makes you wonder why others can do it.

it´s not as if all cameras that have IBIS are breaking down, cost a bunch more or overheat.

and i f you dont want to put it into your FF cameras,. at least put it into the APS-C cameras.
olympus showed in 2013 that they can do it.

Well, at least up until the current generation, Sonys did have a reputation of overheating under certain conditions.

Perhaps Canon looked at where the technology is at, looked at the potential drawbacks of it, and just decided that it didn't meet the standards that they hold their products to.

Yes of course other companies have made it work to one degree or another, but I would argue that Canon usually holds themselves to a higher standard as far as the reliability and ability of their cameras to function without overheating and errors, and they may have just decided that adding in IBIS couldn't be done while maintaining those standards. Perhaps they prioritized their reputation for reliability over the demand to have the absolute latest technology in their cameras. I think it's been shown that they've made similar tradeoffs in the past.

 

[JonSnow]

Well, at least up until the current generation, Sonys did have a reputation of overheating under certain conditions.

because of IBIS.. no.
you can deactivate it on those cameras and afaik it doesn´t make a difference.
the A6300 had no IBIS but the overheating problem.
also other cameras don´t overheat.

but it could be that the sensor can´t be cooled as good because of the assembly.
less surface contact for heat dissipation.

and they may have just decided that adding in IBIS couldn't be done while maintaining those standards.

that is possible and sure a positive way to think about it.
but i am not sure it´s 100% true. it may play a role.

 

[3kramd5]

Canon likes selling IS lenses. Canon has also touted IS lenses as better than IBIS. Functionally an argument can be made to bolster that claim that each lens can be tuned specifically where a one-size-fits-all solution in the body can not.

Consider that internal pressure against developing IBIS.

It’s not a “other’s can, why can’t they” situation; I have zero doubt canon CAN do it. I have some finite doubt canon will do it eventually.

 

[JonSnow]

Canon likes selling IS lenses. Canon has also touted IS lenses as better than IBIS. Functionally an argument can be made to bolster that claim that each lens can be tuned specifically where a one-size-fits-all solution in the body can not.

Consider that internal pressure against developing IBIS.

It’s not a “other’s can, why can’t they” situation; I have zero little doubt canon CAN do it. I have some finite doubt canon will do it eventually.

that is all correct and i want IS in my lenses. i don´t want IBIS or IS i want both.

some canon lenses don´t have IS.
for video with such lenses IBIS is sure an advantage.

im not much into video but i see why customers want that feature.

 

[Kit Lens Jockey]

because of IBIS.. no.
you can deactivate it on those cameras and afaik it doesn´t make a difference.
the A6300 had no IBIS.
also other cameras don´t overheat.

but it could be that the sensor can´t be cooled as good because of the assembly.
less surface contact for heat dissipation.

Yes, that's what I'm saying. It doesn't matter if you can turn IBIS on or off. It's not the functioning of the IBIS that's generating the heat. It's not even a matter of more heat generation with IBIS, it's a matter of dissipating the amount of heat that any sensor generates.

If the sensor is capable of IBIS, that means the sensor and all of the hardware that dissipates heat from it now must be part of that assembly that moves as part of the IBIS. If you have a sensor that's firmly mounted in the camera, you can attach all the heat dissipation hardware to it that you want. Your only limitation is space within the camera and the weight of the camera itself.

As far as the argument that they don't want to have IBIS so that they can sell more lenses, I think that's some serious tinfoil hat thinking. Canon is not the only company to ever make IS lenses. Trying to cling to an old technology when there is a better alternative out there just for the sake of clinging to that technology is foolish, and not a winning strategy. That's why they're finally embracing mirrorless, and why they will probably similarly embrace IBIS, albeit a little late to the game, when they feel that the technology meets their standards. And as has been said, lens IS is not immediately irrelevant and useless just because you have IBIS. They could have even better stabilization performance if they had both.

 

[3kramd5]

Yes, that's what I'm saying. It doesn't matter if you can turn IBIS on or off. It's not the functioning of the IBIS that's generating the heat. It's not even a matter of more heat generation with IBIS, it's a matter of dissipating the amount of heat that any sensor generates.

If the sensor is capable of IBIS, that means the sensor and all of the hardware that dissipates heat from it now must be part of that assembly that moves as part of the IBIS. If you have a sensor that's firmly mounted in the camera, you can attach all the heat dissipation hardware to it that you want. Your only limitation is space within the camera and the weight of the camera itself.

As far as the argument that they don't want to have IBIS so that they can sell more lenses, I think that's some serious tinfoil hat thinking.

Perhaps, but I find it entirely more likely that they didn’t start developing hardware IBIS as soon as others due to strategic decisions, than canon is unable to solve a technical problem which other similar companies have solved.

 

[Kit Lens Jockey]

Perhaps, but I find it entirely more likely that they didn’t start developing hardware IBIS as soon as others due to strategic decisions, than canon is unable to solve a technical problem which other similar companies have solved.

You act as if Canon has never taken apart a competitor's camera to see how it's put together. I guarantee you that Canon and every other manufacturer have all torn down each other's camera models to see exactly how each other are doing what they're doing. It's called benchmarking, and anyone making a competitive product does it. Nothing is a secret, there are only other companies' patents to work around, and competitors find a way to do it. Canon is likely completely aware of how the IBIS and heat dissipation systems in other cameras work, and they've decided that the current solutions that other companies have devised and what's come from their own R&D wouldn't live up to their standards at this time.

 

[3kramd5]

I disagree that I’m acting as if that. Of course they do, I fully accept it.

That is neither here nor there. Frankly, I don’t believe that this is a problem they can not solve. I only believe it’s a matter of time and money, and that a gating item for that investment is will (strategy).

 

[JonSnow]

well it leaves a bit of a bad taste in your mouth not?

olympus, fuji, nikon, panasonic, sony, pentax ... all have IBIS but canons standards are so high that they don´t put IBIS in a consumer or prosumer camera?

i could understand the concerns when it´s the 1D series.

 

[dak723]

Since these things are patented (which people on this forum continually overlook) we have no idea if Canon even has a working patent for IBIS. Just because others have it, it doesn't mean it is easy for everyone to do it.

Plus, Canon has always had the strategy to put IS in their lenses. Yes, this means that they want you to buy their lenses and not use lenses from Sony or Nikon. Part of Sony's strategy was to court Canon lens owners to try their FF. They HAD to put in IBIS to try and draw customers. So if not putting in IBIS was purely a business decision, it is a perfectly legitimate one.

 

[JonSnow]

you can licence patents.

 

[Kit Lens Jockey]

well it leaves a bit of a bad taste in your mouth not?

olympus, fuji, nikon, panasonic, sony, pentax ... all have IBIS but canons standards are so high that they don´t put IBIS in a consumer or prosumer camera?

i could understand the concerns when it´s the 1D series.

Yes, I'm as unhappy as anybody that Canon won't come out with IBIS, but especially after reading the interview with their engineer, I can accept that they just don't feel that it meets their standards at this point. It is what it is.

Do I wish that Canon would make an exception in this case and just put IBIS in the camera even though they don't seem to think the technology is proven out? Yes, I'd really like IBIS. But Canon has a way they seem to do things, and it is what it is. And at the end of the day, aside from one intermittent SD card writing error that was fixed with firmware, I've never had a Canon camera or lens fail or malfunction on me, so I stick with them.

And don't think they're going to put a technology they don't feel is ready on a lower end camera just because people don't expect those cameras to be quite as reliable as a 1D. It's about protecting the brand's reputation as a whole. And if the lower end cameras started overheating or having IBIS issues, people would rightly begin to wonder if the quality of their higher cameras has been allowed to slip as well.

 

[3kramd5]

Since these things are patented (which people on this forum continually overlook) we have no idea if Canon even has a working patent for IBIS. Just because others have it, it doesn't mean it is easy for everyone to do it.

I see the patent thing as a bit of a non-issue. One does not need a patent to make something, one needs a patent to protect one’s IP.

The idea of a patent barrier implies that there is only one technical solution. Since IBIS appears in products from multiple vendors, either: 1) there is more than one technical solution, or 2) the sole solution is licensable, or 3) the IP owner is not litigious. 3 is unlikely, and 1 and 2 are surmountable by time and money (predicated on strategy).

Regarding utility patents in the US, they’re taking several years to be granted. To produce patented IBIS in 2018, they likely would have to have started developing by 2011.

 

[JonSnow]

And don't think they're going to put a technology they don't feel is ready on a lower end camera just because people don't expect those cameras to be quite as reliable as a 1D. It's about protecting the brand's reputation as a whole. And if the lower end cameras started overheating or having IBIS issues, people would rightly begin to wonder if the quality of their higher cameras has been allowed to slip as well.

you talk as if IBIS from canon has to be a total disaster.

other brands doing it for years and it works fine.

it may has some shortcomings you might not want in your top camera.
but it doesn´t have to destroy the brands reputation.